my car is FUGGED!!!

[larryd]

oh yeah, its definitely fugged..

so get this.. Thursday we finally got the car to start.. it runs like crap and I mean REALLY BAD.. it would start up and idle surge horribly and then lobe REALLY bad obviously becuase of the cams so I wasnt to worried about the idle and lobing.. I took the car for a ride and around 4000rpms as soon as any boost hits the car knocks hard and you hear pop pop pop out the exhaust.. I couldnt even do a log with the pocketlogger becuase the #s are soo eratic to try and figure out what was going on.. also the car was smoking but only lightly and i figured it was just due to the new parts and the fact that there may still be oil in the coolant flushing out..

so from friends advice check the ignition timing at idle.. so I do this and though its eratic becuase of the cams its anywhere from 16-20 at idle and non adjustable since i have a 2g CAS and not a 1g CAS.. according to a few pages online it should be around 5-8 degrees so Im way way off here.. I ask around and the general consensus is either a major boost leak or the timing belt is a tooth off..

I have HIN to go to Friday and my car is boothed with Injen which is a very big deal for me, so I decide to drive the car there staying off boost the entire time and take it easy just to get the car there.. Well I get about 30 mins away from my house and I realize my clutch is slipping.. Its a brand new clutch/flywheel so there is no way in hell it should be slipping. Come to find that somehow someway a large chunk of my o2 housing decided to break off and is gone.. its right where it mounts to the downpipe so the exhaust fumes are now coming straight up into the engine bay and essentially cooking my clutch lines which are right there. This then boils the clutch fluid causing so much pressure on the system that it wont let the clutch disengage meaning it will slip and slip until its cooled off.. ok so that makes sense, Ill buy a VP o2 dumptube monday and be done with that..

Im driving down the road to make sure its ok and working before we embark again and little did I know my friend didnt latch my hood, I go over a bump and as the car is coming up the wind catches my hood and slams it up against my windshield.. broke the hood in 4 spots, the carbon fiber is now coming off the hood.. hmm shitty.. now i need an o2 housing and a new hood.. well atleast it didnt break my window..

So we decide to get something to eat before we get on the highway.. I decide to call Injen and see what im sposed to do when I get to AC, I talk to Ryan and he has no clue that im sposed to be there car at the show.. supposedly there was a big miscommunication and he was never told that I was gonne be there so now my booth is gone.. this day is just getting better and better..

We drive down and the ride isnt that bad other then having to pull over about every 25 mins or so to let the clutch cool off to keep it from slipping.. We get about 15 miles out side of AC and guess what.. I get pulled over and why.. becuase of my tint.. dear god can anything else go wrong today.. the cop was bout to rip apart my car and search it.. He thought I was carrying drugs or something.. oh well, no ticket no harm just another annoyance that I can add to my list for the day..

I finally get there and Saturday goes well at the show.. I drive home and the car starts smoking bad.. like alot worse then it was before and my friend keeps telling me it might be becuase of the rebuild and not to worry about it etc etc etc.. I go to sleep at 5am and get up at 3 this afternoon with intentions on a compression test.

So the time comes and we do the compression test.. yup the weekend jsut got alot worse.. 120 120 110 95.. We add oil to the last 2 cylinders in the spark plug chambers and try again and they go to 125 and 110.. according to the service manual my piston rings and friend. Now im thinkign to myself god why do i deserve this.. 3 weeks to put this thing back together and now I got to take it apart again and go even further this time..

Im going to call Extreme tomorrow and Turbo Trix and see how much they want to do a 1g swap for me becuase Im not rebuilding a 7 bolt block and I dont know if I have it in me anymore to work on this car.. my mental state is seriously going down the drain.. so I have to come to work 2nite.. I have to bring my car as I have no other method of transport now, I figure as long as I keep off the car and keep it full of oil Ill be fine to drive it and watch the temps.. well about 1/2 way here.. the whole 3 mile ride it is from work to home I hear something, some clunk type noise and my boost guage drops to negative pressure and just like died.. so im like **** waht now.. I give it gas and the car is a SLUG, no boost rise at all, and it wont go anywhere.. i mean like the slowest turd Ive ever driven.. luckily I was close to work so I just pulled it into work.. I looked under the hood and all looks normal so I have no clue what the hell the problem is now but if I didnt know better Id say my turbo just seized itself..

so does anyone have any medication they can send me??

 

[doug]

Wow-- that is like one bad dream that you can't wake up from, I bet. Sorry, man-- I know that really bites. I wish I had some advice for ya...

J Doug

 

[Turbo95GST]

i can't begin to describe the sympathy i have for you

best of luck, keep us updated

 

[larryd]

a little update.. i just went outside and took the intake off the car to look at the turbo and its fine.. i can spin the propeller fine and its not hitting anything... now the bad news.. the timing belt is loose as ****, like I can take it off by hand right now which is not good.. It doesnt look like the gears have jumped at all but I cant tell.. this is prolly why I couldnt hit boost earlier..

 

[Turbo95GST]

yikes =\ the timing belt thing is no good, but hey, at least your turbo is still in good shape.

 

[larryd]

yea seems Im in a no win situation here..

 

[KenTSIII]

Yep... definately sounds like Tbelt skipped. I knew that when you posted the compression readings. My car did almost the exact same thing last year. But fortunately I checked everything in time... & but the Tbelt back in time & compression was 155 accross the board. I don't wish this on anybody... but someone f'd up during the install! Sounds like it's time for a 1g head swap... or possibly the 6bolt conversion you stated earlier. Good luck w/ it.

 

[larryd]

but the head is fine.. thats the thing.. as far as I can tell right now it is anyhow..unless I pull the head off myself to look at it again.. and the belt was fine before I left for work.. it was tight..

the low compression according to the service manual is due to bad piston rings becuase when i added oil it raised the compression, if it didnt raise the compression it would have been either valve guides or head gasket..

Im still up in the air on waht to do.. I wanna have someone else do the work this time but I also want to take the head off myself and see what it looks like..if its ok or not

 

[KenTSIII]

But it didn't raise to where it should have been.. 165 or so for 2g pistons. 120 is rebuild spec for our motors. I got $500 that says your Tbelt has skipped time!

 

[Violater101]

Man Larry, I know how you feel and I've never had no where near your problems. Hopefully all is good, but if not, I would do the 1G swap. My friend and I went to the Junkyard today and found a 4 bolt rear end and a AWD transmission, all in good working order. I bet you might be able to find a donor motor if you live near any big city with a pick u pull.

I was so looking forward to your new dyno #'s :< It can only get better from here.

 

[cmc]

Well if your tbelt is loose, then your tensoiner is not holding properly. This could cause you to jump time and kill your head. I've been out of the loop for a while, but what have you done exactly??? To your car that is. I would say right now, your motor is fixable, but needs a bottom up job. I am rebuilding my 95 engine to sell, I could also start(b/c I will anyway) rebuild one of my other 6bolts. If your interested. But I want to keep the 1g intake mani I have. But head and block are up for sale. A 95+ rebuilt motor can go for as much as 5000, but realistically I'm looking at 3000 for it, but will help out a friend if in need. It would really be hard for me to part w/ a 6bolt, but will consider. Oh yea, I have no flywheel for it. But it sounds to me that you have ported your head and done other things to it, so I recomend you keep it and get a 6 bolt block. But also you have the F flywheel right? That only goes w/ a 7 bolt!!! Looks like your in for one hell of a ride.
To make you feel better, My car has only ran for 6 months in the past 2 years
And I've blown my engine up, killed two turbos, shot 3 clutches, done a 720 on a two lane rd into a ditch, had my lower ball joint come off while in motion!, etc,etc,etc
Good luck, this is what owning a DSM is all about, stick with it, you'll be happy!

 

[larryd]

KenTSIII.. when you add oil its not going to close off the gap in the piston ring completely and seal it to the compression is 100% where it should be, it only fixes it a little bit.. if it doesnt fix it at all then its the head or the gasket.. thats according to the service manual.. Ill know for sure ofcourse once I take the head off the car but Im telling you the tbelt was tight before I left for work.. it was perfectly fine.. if the belt skipped it was just now..

cmc.. yeah I just did a whole bunch of stuff.. 1g IM and TB, ported my head exhaust man and turbo.. put all crower internals and crower cams with a fidanza flywheel and act 2100 clutch.. only thing I really will beed is a 6 bolt block, 1st gen rods, 6 bolt fidanza flywheel, and act 2600.. the rest is labor.. Id rather stick with my 2g head asuming its all intact..

 

[gst_spyder]

You def need someone to diagnose what happened so you can learn from your mistakes cause right now you seem lost as to what caused the problems to begin. Good Luck,

Mario

 

[GoFastTSI]

so get this.. Thursday we finally got the car to start.. it runs like crap and I mean REALLY BAD.. it would start up and idle surge horribly and then lobe REALLY bad obviously becuase of the cams so I wasnt to worried about the idle and lobing.. I took the car for a ride and around 4000rpms as soon as any boost hits the car knocks hard and you hear pop pop pop out the exhaust.. I couldnt even do a log with the pocketlogger becuase the #s are soo eratic to try and figure out what was going on.. also the car was smoking but only lightly and i figured it was just due to the new parts and the fact that there may still be oil in the coolant flushing out..

What I don't understand is why you drove the car when it was idling terribly and such. Those symptoms you described sound EXACTLY like a timing belt that is off more than two teeth. Car show or no car show, the last thing I would have done was drive it anywhere, even idle it.

but the head is fine.. thats the thing.. as far as I can tell right now it is anyhow..unless I pull the head off myself to look at it again.. and the belt was fine before I left for work.. it was tight..

And you've done a leakdown test to verify this I'm sure, right? Just LOOKING at the head won't tell you a damn thing unless of course your valves mated with your pistons.

KenTSIII.. when you add oil its not going to close off the gap in the piston ring completely and seal it to the compression is 100% where it should be, it only fixes it a little bit.. if it doesnt fix it at all then its the head or the gasket.. thats according to the service manual.. Ill know for sure ofcourse once I take the head off the car but Im telling you the tbelt was tight before I left for work.. it was perfectly fine.. if the belt skipped it was just now.. [/b

Just because it was tight before you left work doesn't matter at all. I'm fairly certain your timing belt was off at least two teeth and I'm almost positive your tensioner wasn't set correctly causing the problems you encountered. Seen it time and again. Also, did you warm the engine up prior to the dry and wet compression tests?

Joe

 

[Bohrn]

holy crap Larry, that really sucks goat things...

best of luck. I hope its a bad spark plug, but I doubt it

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by GoFastTSI


What I don't understand is why you drove the car when it was idling terribly and such. Those symptoms you described sound EXACTLY like a timing belt that is off more than two teeth. Car show or no car show, the last thing I would have done was drive it anywhere, even idle it.



And you've done a leakdown test to verify this I'm sure, right? Just LOOKING at the head won't tell you a damn thing unless of course your valves mated with your pistons.



Just because it was tight before you left work doesn't matter at all. I'm fairly certain your timing belt was off at least two teeth and I'm almost positive your tensioner wasn't set correctly causing the problems you encountered. Seen it time and again. Also, did you warm the engine up prior to the dry and wet compression tests?

Joe

I drove the car thinking that the eratic idle had to do with the removed emissions crap and the TPS.. I knew it was knocking hard at high rpms but low rpms the car was running fine so I figured as long as I drove it easy and kept the rpms down Id be fine.. but i spose i was wrong..

I havent checked the head yet.. Im prolly gonna pull it on Wed and check it out.. I believe to pressure test I can actually just put water in the head and check to make sure it doesnt leak through the valves correct?

How can the tensioner be set incorrect?? We had it tight the way its sposed to be and it was fine over night. Ill find out whats wrong wit it when I pull it apart.. and no the engine wasnt warmed up before the compression tests, should it be?

 

[NJGSX96]

Yes, engine should be warmed up real good before a compression test.

 

[Tevenor]

Larry stay with me and follow what Ken is saying.

If the teeth skipped time and now one of the cams is off, before you go ape sh!t, retime everything, make sure the tensioner is set properly, and then try to start it up and run it to get it warm. Let it idle (or lope) for 10 minutes at least. Then to a compression test with the throtttle all the way down (TB open). Things may not be as bad as they seem

Remember that if timing is off the valves are opening at the wrong time therefore you will never get a complete compression stroke. See where I am going with this?

I doubt you have bent valves as bent valves tend to leave 0 compression in each cylinder. Just like this past weekend when I bent 3 of the 4 cylinder's intake valves (the day before my birthday no less).

Retime everything AND MAKE DOUBLY sure the tensioner is set correctly. TB are the easiest thing to screw up because there is no margin for error.

 

[Ludachris]

Hey Larry, I'd go with Tev on this one, especially if it means you may not have to pull everything again...

 

[Formz]

yea larry its not your rings. If it was your rings the compression should of jumped up about 30 psi or so. Oil seals it almost 100% for the test. It's definately your timing belt like the others are saying.

 

[KenTSIII]

he don't believe us.. we all don't know what we're talking about.. haven't been driving DSMs for the last 4+ years... & have prolly never seen exactly what he's describing at least a 100 times...

 

[larryd]

Ken, no need to get ignorant man im just trying to make sense out of all of this and its still hard for me to figure out.. But I think I understand what you guys are saying now. If the timing belt is off a tooth or more when you do the compression test your results are going to be off scale. So Im going to try and fix the timing belt again before I rip the engine out of the car..

Another question for you. If I wanted to be totally sure could I take the head off the car and put oil in it and make sure it doesnt leak through the valves to make sure the head is fine and do the same with the block, pour oil on top of the pistons and make sure it doesnt go down to make sure the rings are ok?

I just ask because I really dont want to mess up the timing belt again. Right now there is enough slack that I can just pull the belt off the gears and simply unbolt the head from the block to check it that way and if both things come back ok I would take my car to the shop and have them do the tbelt.

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by larryd
I just ask because I really dont want to mess up the timing belt again. Right now there is enough slack that I can just pull the belt off the gears and simply unbolt the head from the block to check it that way and if both things come back ok I would take my car to the shop and have them do the tbelt.

I classify this as "bad". It shouldn't be that loose.

 

[larryd]

yeah i know this.. I havent driven the car since i noticed this.. I was planning on just having it towed somewhere and having the 6 bolt put in but if I can do a compression test again and its better this time like the problem lies somewhere else then Id much rather do that.. but I dont want to go through the hassle of doing the belt again.. that was a complete pita and obviously I didnt do it right that time, still no idea why not but I dont wnat to try it again

 

[larryd]

the other thing .. i understand how the timing belt could cause low compression across the board now and that makes sense but wouldnt the compression still be consistent from cylinder to cylinder, i mean i was 120 120 110 95.. a 25psi difference seems like an awful lot

Im going to do the timing belt again and get it right this time before i do anything else and do another compression test but can you answer my question as to why it would be that far off on 2 of the 4 cylinders if its not bad piston rings?