IMPORTANT-HOW TO reduce AIT/log info inside.CAI installed

[andy4g63]

Recently, after I read couple of old threads about Cold air intakes, I decided to do one myself and see how does it affects AIT/air intake temps/, therefore trying to make the motor more resistant to detonation and FMIC more efficient too. Since I have 4" intake tube on both sides/no MAF/, I just went ahead and bought:
- 90* 4" alum. piping
- 4" silicone coupler/one/
- two worm clamps

instalation

fairly simple and easy, just had to play with the pipes a little bit, loosen a few clamps, nothing major.About 30-40 min, the most. Didn't have to cut any of the pipes/ actually I was afraid that the pipes will be a little too short/, but with more tweaking, everything went into place, nice and easy.
Of course I had to cut a hole leading into fender well and cause I don't have good tool for that, I put some red hose around it to prevent any chance of rubbing metal against metal and actually looks cool and matches the car. On top of that I installed back the factory plastic shield, which usually stays behind factory SMIC. Did that mostly to protect the filter from some dirt and debris, being thrown on it by the tire rotating forward.

results

After putting everything together, I started the car, let it completely warm up and went for a drive. Before I even turned the log ON, I drove for like 15-20min. so the car was completely hot. Ambient temperature was like 74-75 degrees, bright sun.

All the info below is from my log from AEM, but because I am a retard when comes to computers, I couldn't post it. Even if I did, you guys wouldn't be able to scroll into it anyway.

I did 1-2-3 gears pull, cuse it was afternoon, a lot of cars, couldn't even hit 4 gear.
1-2 gears to 8250 RPM and 3 gear to about 7700 RPM/very close to 100MPH/
Temperature went from 84*F at the beginning of the run to 104*F at 7723RPM to be exact.

Then I did 2 and 3 gears mild pull/traffic again/, temp went 82-89*F.
Last one was easy again, but this time 2-3-4, temp was 86-93*F.

Thruout the log which lasted 7min, the temp wasn't exceedind 90*, except in cases where I was doing pulls.Average temp. around 84-86*F normal driving/cruising/. Keep in mind, that besides the traffic, I stopped at a few lights and slowed down several timesto like 30MPH or so. Coolant temps were within the range of 185-195*F.

VERY IMPORTANT

I have on the car EXTREME PSI street core FMIC, which measures 8x24x3.5"
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This is not big by today's standards at all. Combined with CAI can cool pretty efficient. I am going to post a few results some other people had, but remember, THIS IS NOT A COMPETITION of any kind. I got some decent results/I believe/, sharing them with other members and doing comparison with some others:

This is from Jake, aka Evil eagle:
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With the amount of boost I run in the talon the increase of intake temp with the FMIC is very minimal. Before with my SBR FMIC I was getting a 50-55 degree increase. This ETS 5" monster has only a 19-22 degree increase from start to finish at 40-42lbs of boost on a GT4202 turbo. The Air Intake temp sensor is 4" away from my throttle body, so this is manifold temps I am getting with this bad boy!
Lets look at how consistent the Air intake temps are with different tracks and weather temps.

the start of the run, this run was at 40lbs of boost, ambient temp was around 75 degrees outside.
-start temp 87*F, end of run 111*F

-Second run/diff.place Cali/ in 100-102* degree weather-42PSI/ GT42R
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As you can see in the hotter weather there was only a 19 degree increase!!

This FMIC has been a huge help this season, it keeps the temps in check. I don't even bother spraying the FMIC down with ice water in the pits between rounds, there is no need to!
-starting temp 113*, end of run 132*F
All these runs were made on ETS RACE FMIC, which I believe is33x10.5x5


The following info is from BUSCHUR's random FMIC shootout;

Random FMIC information with a little turbo info mixed in..... - Buschur Forums

I am just QUOTING few examples, similar to my case:
1G DSM, 2 liter, BR GT35r, OLD original 1g DSM BR FMIC

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This is kind of the same FMIC I have now.

2 liter
BR GT35r header kit
Old original FMIC (this is one 15+ years ago we thought was the best)

Starting AIT 107.6 degrees
Ending AIT 194 degrees
Peak boost 31.80 degrees
20 psi at 4793 rpm
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2 liter
BR GT35r header kit
New 1G DSM FMIC

Starting AIT 86 degrees
Ending AIT 107.6 degrees
Peak boost 37.40 degrees (NOTE 6 more psi than the base run!!)
20 psi at 4695 rpm (NOTE, 100 rpm sooner to 20 psi!!)
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2.3 liter, AMS GT35r, AMS standard FMIC 12x20x4

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Starting AIT, 102.2 degrees
Ending AIT, 134.6 degrees
Peak boost 23.98 psi
20 psi at 4551
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2 liter, BR GT35r header kit, EBAY (AMS STYLE) FMIC

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Starting AIT 64.40 degrees
Ending AIT 122 degrees
Peak boost 42.1 psi
20 psi at 4563 rpm
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2 liter, SBR GT30, SBR FMIC

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Starting AIT 91.40
Ending AIT 113.00
Peak boost 25.48
20 psi at 4125 rpm
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That is it. Once again, this is just some data from different people and companies. I am not trying to say which or what is better.
Keep in mind that Dyno sessions aredifferent from real world driving
---Hood is open, there are some fans around and most likely cooldown time between runs--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---1/4 mile pass, the cars heat up extremely well, BUT most of the time before the runs, car/motor is cold . Just start it ni the pits, before the run to keep motor COOL.

And last all these results, that are shown above, I know in most cases, forget the FMIC on all these cars, but TURBOS are totally different in size. Just a few facts:

-smaller turbos at high boost, actually generate more heat, than the BIG ones
-difference between PUMPgas and RACE gas tune.
- intercoolers are actually more efficient at some speed, 75MPH/I think
-all the different circumstances and details in all of the above mentioned runs.

Installing CAI is on your own risk. I don't drive my car daily. Now with CAI if rains, I do not drive it, or if I have to, I remove CAI and use my short ram instead. I heard only once from some guy, who hydrolocked his motor. It was N/A car and he went into a deep water4-5 feet, completely submerging the intake, so be aware.

Thanks for your time and GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!

 

[joyfil2001]

I am doing a similar setup to avoid having to remove the headlight at the track. I bought a 3" intake flex extention hose from Autozone and I am going to cut a hole underneath where the filter is now. Then I am going to run the flex hose down to the airduct where the SMIC was. Should decrease AIT and wont have to worry about rain.

Can you post pics of the other side?

 

[1992awdlaser]

Where are you measuring the intake temp at? Do you know what the intake temp was before you installed it?

 

[crimsondragon]

I personally believe CAI are a real disadvantage. Granted, cold air is a plus but hydrolocking is not. In the future once I get rid of the SMIC, I plan on making an air duct from that side of the bumper up to the short ram. The short ram will have a shield as well to prevent engine bay heat from overtaking the cold air being ducted in. Because the duct does not see vacuum, It'll give a slight advantage over CAI. Also, I'll be focusing more on taking down engine bay temperatures than trying to draw cold air in.

 

[joyfil2001]

I personally believe CAI are a real disadvantage. Granted, cold air is a plus but hydrolocking is not. In the future once I get rid of the SMIC, I plan on making an air duct from that side of the bumper up to the short ram. The short ram will have a shield as well to prevent engine bay heat from overtaking the cold air being ducted in. Because the duct does not see vacuum, It'll give a slight advantage over CAI. Also, I'll be focusing more on taking down engine bay temperatures than trying to draw cold air in.

That is exactly what my setup is going to be. I just need to find the time to do it. What are you guys using to cut through the fender?

 

[1992awdlaser]

It will require a LOT of water to get sucked in the intake in order to hydrolock the motor. This isn't going to happen unless the filter is submerged in water. In which case, the driver was an idiot. The most that's going to happen from getting it splashed is the maf might get ruined.

 

[crimsondragon]

That is exactly what my setup is going to be. I just need to find the time to do it. What are you guys using to cut through the fender?

Combination of aviation snips, Dremel cutter, sheet metal nibbler and whatever else I can find to use.

 

[joyfil2001]

It will require a LOT of water to get sucked in the intake in order to hydrolock the motor. This isn't going to happen unless the filter is submerged in water. In which case, the driver was an idiot. The most that's going to happen from getting it splashed is the maf might get ruined.

Thats the impression I was under.

 

[joyfil2001]

I don't think the dremel I have would get the job done. I was thinking of getting a grinder.

 

[andy4g63]

----joyfil2001
What do you mean,by pictures on the other side??? May be underneath in the fenderwell???LMK
----1992awdlaser
I am mesuring the temps with my AIT sensor, which is 4" away, from the TB and sorry didn't measured the temps before, cause every time to do that, I have to carry laptop with me.
Actually, I had a only one old log and shows temps ranging from 105*F to 113*F. It is actually strange, cause on the same pull I did before 1-2-3, temps dropped 1 degree and this is odd. Plus the car just warmed up, hood was open/put the cams in/, so the car didn't have a chance to heat soak.This log was only 3 min, compared to new one which is 7min. Plus at the end AIT was 91*F, compared to 111*F.
----crimsondragon
Before, I thought the same, but now, after I did it, I think my results speak for themselves:
Look at the size of mine FMIC.On the Buschur FMIC shootout, with FMIC, same as mine, they got 195*F Plus, if do it right, it is very easy to remove the filter and tube and put filter on short ram. To hydrolock the motor, you have to completely submerge the filter in deep water. Plus, I still have to put a piece, underneath to box it, then will be a very little chance to soak the filter, unless you in at least 2 or more feet of water. If you want check Honda forums, these guys use a lot of cold air intakes, so they will know.

Think about it, after you drive more , than 15-20min, everything gets soaked with heat, your IC pipes and IM are HOT, and this is not good.

 

[crimsondragon]

----crimsondragon
Before, I thought the same, but now, after I did it, I think my results speak for themselves:
Look at the size of mine FMIC.On the Buschur FMIC shootout, with FMIC, same as mine, they got 195*F Plus, if do it right, it is very easy to remove the filter and tube and put filter on short ram. To hydrolock the motor, you have to completely submerge the filter in deep water. Plus, I still have to put a piece, underneath to box it, then will be a very little chance to soak the filter, unless you in at least 2 or more feet of water. If you want check Honda forums, these guys use a lot of cold air intakes, so they will know.

Think about it, after you drive more , than 15-20min, everything gets soaked with heat, your IC pipes and IM are HOT, and this is not good.

Even if you don't submerge the filter, you risk damage to the MAF. With enough rain the filter will soak and eventually water droplets will run inside.

As for the heat issue. Exactly. Instead of finding a way to cover the problem, I'd rather attack the source. I believe more in finding ways to reduce engine bay temperatures. Regardless of CAI, you're still fighting heat. The main sources of heat is the exhaust. Reduce the heat being bled off by them and not only do you keep more energy inside where it belongs, you reduce the rest of the bay temperature as well. That's just my personal belief.

 

[joyfil2001]

Even if you don't submerge the filter, you risk damage to the MAF. With enough rain the filter will soak and eventually water droplets will run inside.

As for the heat issue. Exactly. Instead of finding a way to cover the problem, I'd rather attack the source. I believe more in finding ways to reduce engine bay temperatures. Regardless of CAI, you're still fighting heat. The main sources of heat is the exhaust. Reduce the heat being bled off by them and not only do you keep more energy inside where it belongs, you reduce the rest of the bay temperature as well. That's just my personal belief.

He doesn't have a MAF though so this set up works for him. For us, we should stick to the original plan in which we leave the filter right where it is and install a ram-air style pipe beneath it.

Oh and Andy I was wondering if you had pics beneath the fenderwell.

 

[andy4g63]

I will take the picture today and will post it tomorrow.

 

[andy4g63]

I took a few.

---crimson, about the heat you are right, but your bigger source is the turbo, compressing air it was make AIT high, not the exhaust. Discharge temp. on turbos is around 210-235*F and turbo is attached to exh. mani and there is nothing you can do about that.

 

[joyfil2001]

Looks like you are getting a whole lot of colder air down there. Looks good man.

 

[andy4g63]

That is the purposse of it.

 

[crimsondragon]

I took a few.

---crimson, about the heat you are right, but your bigger source is the turbo, compressing air it was make AIT high, not the exhaust. Discharge temp. on turbos is around 210-235*F and turbo is attached to exh. mani and there is nothing you can do about that.

All of what you said is true except for one thing. I believe there is something we can do about it. I'm doing my own research on heat reduction. I plan on doing it in steps from Swain Tech coatings to heat wrap to high temperature spray. I will be recording the temperature drop and everything and then I will invest in a turbine blanket and see how well it'll work. From what I heard, you'll be able to lay your hand on the turbine and not get burned.

 

[Black_Bullet]

andy4g63-
Great pics, your engine bay is awesome .
I dont understand your examples of other cars AIT, especially if boost was different?

Anyways, glad to hear you got decent gains out of the CAI.
A lot of people will disagree with you, but let them. There are definitly improvements to be had doing it on a turbo car, even with a decent intercooler in front.

I did it myself half a year ago or so. When I used to have a 2g mas I just went to home depo racing and got a 90 deg pvc pipe and attached it onto the end of the 2g mas adaptor, and cut out the thin metal under the intake like you did and dropped it down were the smic used to be.
To protect from water, I just made a splash shield... I used sheetmetal behind and under the intake filter protect from back and bottom. As for the front bumper ( in the lasers bumpers) theres a little air pocket directly in front of the intake. I put patio screen in there in two layers significantly cutting down the water that is coming at the filter from the front.

This has worked for me, I live in FL, and in the summer Ive driven this car thru some torential rains and down pours to the point I couldnt even see the road in front of me, and I havent hydrolocked.
I just DONT get into any boost when its raining or if going thru a puddle, and thats really all there is to it not to hydrolock your motor. Like said above, youd be stupid to make it hydrolock if your compentent enough to make a proper splash guard to protect it. I dont ever switch the pipeing out of CAI mode. Its like this all year round !

I dont find making venting and pulling the headlight ( which I used to do ) very efficient compared to completely relocating the air intake filter outside of engine bay. I mean sure you can direct a nice cool draft of air towards the filter, but the filter will still be sitting in a tight, heatsoaked area and the gains wont be as great as if you completely relocating that air filter from that heat soaked location.

Btw, I am not able to log AIT at the UICP like you are with your AEM, but I was just doing the regular logging on Palm, which logged my AIT at the 2g mas itself, and from idle up I was consistenly dropping 30degs over the regular intake, AND yes the car had a heatshield over the exhaust mani at the time.
On my evo316g the noticeable gains from me going to CAI were quicker spool ( by 100-200 rpms worth)
and without touching the boost controller It went from 21psi falling to 19 on stock cams, to 23psi falling to 21psi at redline at that time.
(Ive made a lot of changes and run a lot more boost now but Im giving you my inital impressions.)

Pics of when i was on the 2g mas, and had the 90deg pvc elbow holdnig the air filter

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This pic of the left side pocket in the front bumper thats directly in front of CAI. This pocket eventually got patio screened to help block water... The screen worked good because it still allowed airflow. My upper and lower intercooler pipes run around the same side, but the lower intercooler pipe goes across the top of the fmic to clearly up any confusion. Kind of retarded but thats how the kit is.

I know the cars paint was terrible back then. What can I say, I originally bought it as a beater...

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You can see the blue air filter peaking out behind the pipe kind of.

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Heres my splash shield I made with sheetmetal. ( Not the best work, but gets job done.)

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Now I run the GM maft, and I had to rethink my CAI pipeing since I couldnt use 2g hard pipe anymore.
This is what I ended up coming up with.

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True CAI is the only way to go!

 

[andy4g63]

About mine AIT's and the other cars, I know the boost is different, but in some cases just few PSI, doesn't really heatsAIT that much and in other/ like with GT 42R turbo, I personally think that they dont heat as much as the smaller turbo would do at the same boost level. Plus, don't forget car was driven on the street some time and the other cars were running 1/4 mile/ so you start motor just before you will run/, or running on the dyno, with the hood open and couple of fans blasting. I am not saying by any means, that my FMIC is better, but I am posting my results and showing, that a simple mod/CAI/, can make my FMIC very close to others. So if I wanted to be safer in the future I should buy bigger FMIC/$600/, run E85, which is not easily available or go with Meth, but I am not a big fan of it. Instead, I spend like $60 and called it a day for now.

On the other hand, I am happy that CAI works for you too. It seems nice and clean and it is proven to work, period.

 

[kmoore]

For those of you that have done this, do you think (In your opinion) that something like this could still be fab'd up with long route piping? Every one I see has short route piping, and I have a long route setup and I really need to do this but I'm not too sure if I'll have enough room.

 

[1glaserturbo]

For those of you that have done this, do you think (In your opinion) that something like this could still be fab'd up with long route piping? Every one I see has short route piping, and I have a long route setup and I really need to do this but I'm not too sure if I'll have enough room.

Kyle, instead of routing it through where the stock intercooler piping (or long route piping) goes take the intake pipe and point it downward and wrap around like the stock side mount piping did off the turbo. Understand what I'm saying?

 

[kmoore]

I still have the stock MAS though. I'm trying to keep that intact.

 

[Black_Bullet]

For those of you that have done this, do you think (In your opinion) that something like this could still be fab'd up with long route piping? Every one I see has short route piping, and I have a long route setup and I really need to do this but I'm not too sure if I'll have enough room.

Mines is long route piping FMIC.

 

[andy4g63]

For those of you that have done this, do you think (In your opinion) that something like this could still be fab'd up with long route piping? Every one I see has short route piping, and I have a long route setup and I really need to do this but I'm not too sure if I'll have enough room.

You might, but probably have to run a very short AIR filter and fab the piping real nice. Look carefully at the pictures Black Bullet posted, and you'll find a solution.

 

[kmoore]

Black Bullet's setup is not your typical "long route setup". I'm talking about something like this:

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Anybody do a CAI with this type of setup?