AGP vs DSMsport T3/T4 kits

[FastRthenU]

I have looked at both kits offered. I think both kits are well build. I like certin things about each kit over the other one. They are also very reasonably priced. AGP is 1600 for the base, plus options. DSMsport is 1900, and that is for any setup you wish. (e.g 60-1 trim. AGP cost more for that trim) Im looking at buying the 60-1 trim. so from AGP its 1675, and so DSMsport is 1900. With the money saved from the AGP kit i could upgrade to a tial 40mm wastegate, and get the compressor side polished for the 25 more then the DSMsport kit. I find that the quility is a bit higher on the DSMsport kit though. I would like your thoughts and opinions on boths kits, and maybe some feed back from ppl that have the kits and what they think. thanks

 

[FastRthenU]

This is a pre-emtive BUMP (for give if i mis spelt)

 

[GSX]

I'b be glad to give my opinion on this .. here goes.

A Garret Turbo is a Garret Turbo (some wisdom huh). Meaning with all things being equal (in this case the turbo) go for the cheapest because you know both sets are built by quality shops with excellent customer service.

Now you may also want to consider supporting factors in your decision:

In addition to getting the upgraded Tial and the polished compressor housing from AGP I would also take note of the included components. As I've said before, AGP sells one of the better exhaust manifolds on the market (built by SFP for AGP). As per their website and from first hand experience I've seen that this design makes clearance issues of no concern.

On the other hand, it's a known fact that wastegates attached to the turbonetics wastegates suffer from hood clearance issues, and because you'll be running a big turbo the water pipe issue may be involved as well .. so you'll likely have to find a way to relocate the wastegate a tad to clear your hood (I believe some vendors sell such a piece) and 'redesign' your water pipe.

Don't get me wrong, it's your decision ... I've already made mine and don't mind explaining why.

You'll be happy with both kits .. Enjoy!

 

[FastRthenU]

So your say that the AGP kit is the better choice. Its cheaper, and the exhaust manifold is a better design. I was worried about a few things with the kit. The main one being that the o2 housing, and manifold are only made of mild steel. Not stainless steel like that dsm kit. They just coat the mainfold and o2 housing to try to pervent corrosion. But how long will that coat stay on for? the turbnetics mainfold is cast so it more then likey will not crack. But im more worried about the AGP one cracking. just some thought. Also, would you say that i should up grade to the 40mm wategate. It seem's the Diamond star car was just running a 35mm with no problems.

 

[jsigone]

If they would have had this about a month ago, I'd gone with the AGP setup. Mainly because you don't get a turbonetics turbo and you get a SFP mani what carries a 3 warrenty (so I heard). But the only thing I object, that you have to pay more for the comment type trims. Like the 50 trim is the most effeceint trim yet you have to pay close to 100 bucks for it. Don't get me wrong, it still a great deal, jus you get a basic setup for 1600 then with more $$ you can customize your setup. If you don't get at least a 57 trim or 60-1, you can pick up a nice 20G setup for about 400-500 cheaper.

 

[GSX]

FastRthenU and jsigone,

Both of you have made good points.

As for the mild steel, I guess that was really never a consideration as I live in sunny Arizona where harsh weather doesn't really exist - not in my parts anyway.

Although I will say that I don't think a stainless exahust manifold is a good idea according to discussions I've had regarding thermal expansions rates of such a metal - it tends to be prone to cracking. That being said the turbonetics is cast .. that's probably more durable that mild steel although I've never heard of the SFP cracking?

Again, calling on discussions I've had with DSM'ers far more knowledgable than myself it seems that manifold mounted wastegates seem sufficient with 35mm wastegates, and that when moving to O2 mounted wastegates the 40mm appears to be the way to go.

In either case, I believe I remember running these types of questions past AGP before I ordered .. and they had the answers. So, I'd suggest a call to either shop to help with the decision.

Best of luck to you...

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

But the only thing I object, that you have to pay more for the comment type trims. Like the 50 trim is the most effeceint trim yet you have to pay close to 100 bucks for it. Don't get me wrong, it still a great deal, jus you get a basic setup for 1600 then with more $$ you can customize your setup. If you don't get at least a 57 trim or 60-1, you can pick up a nice 20G setup for about 400-500 cheaper.

The reason the 60-1 is only $75 more is due to the fact that they probably stick the 60-1 in a T04E housing. The 60-1 is actually a T4 wheel, and requires some machining of the T04E housing in order to get it to fit. The "standard" housing for a 60-1 is a T04S.

The 50 trim is a totally custom setup. A lot of machining has to go into this setup, as it it NOT something that comes off the shelf. Plus the 50 trim wheel itself costs more. An off the shelf 54, 57, or 60 trim turbo is dirt cheap. It's when you have to start swapping housings, machining, and in the case of the 50 trim, actually assemble and balance the turbo, is when the costs go up.

The reason the t3/t4 kit is so attractive is it's ability to swap turbos cheaply. Once you buy a 20G, ur stuck with it. Sure you can sell and go bigger. But once you decide to go bigger, now you need the gate and bigger O2 housing. Do the math. FP red setup would be $1480 (turbo) + $275 (O2 housing) + 350 (Tial gate) = $2105. 60-1 T3/T4 setup from AGP would be $1825 ($1600 + $75 (60-1 upgrade) + $150 (40mm upgrade). Plus if you didn't want to start out so big (60-1), buy you a 57 trim off the shelf system for $1600. Then when you outgrow it, sell it and buy a bigger 60-1 for $650 or so. I'd rather spend $650 to upgrade my turbo than $1400 or so for a Mitsu based turbo.

But that's just me

Mike

 

[Revenant]

BTW, shouldn't that be " FastRTHAN U ", not FastRthenU?

 

[Scotty]

What are your goals? 60-1, sounds like some big goals.

What kind of boost controller are you/do you plan to use?

There's no need to upgrade to a 40mm TiAL IMO. Running a 57trim,t04e,stg3,.63a/r on a turbonetics t3 cast manifold with a 35mmm tial controlled by a HKS EVC4. I can dial the turbo down to .67bar (~10psi). Do I run it at 10psi?...um no. Just make sure you order the tial with the correct spring pressure. There's no need for a .7 bar spring in a 35mm with a t3/t4. 1-1.2 bar spring would be low enough IMO. On the street my turbo is a handicap at anything below 20psi. Dial it up to 25 psi you have instant perma-grin.

With a T04e comp cover the only clearance issue was the coolant line going to the stock oil cooler at the oil filter housing. I removed the stock line and replaced it with a braided SS -8an line.

 

[Scotty]

The briaded SS line you see in the pic IS NOT the line I talked about above. Thats a turbo coolant line in the pic. The line in question is still on the engine in the pic. To find it, look at the upper end of the lower radiator hose. You'll see a small diameter metal line crossing there...that's the coolant line that got in the way of the T04e compressor cover.

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0


The reason the 60-1 is only $75 more is due to the fact that they probably stick the 60-1 in a T04E housing. The 60-1 is actually a T4 wheel, and requires some machining of the T04E housing in order to get it to fit. The "standard" housing for a 60-1 is a T04S.

The $75 more is for the off the shelf 60-1/stage3 that uses the T04S compressor housing. If you want the 60-1 in a T04E compressor housing it falls into the custom built T3/T4 turbo that is $125 more.

Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0


The 50 trim is a totally custom setup. A lot of machining has to go into this setup, as it it NOT something that comes off the shelf. Plus the 50 trim wheel itself costs more. An off the shelf 54, 57, or 60 trim turbo is dirt cheap. It's when you have to start swapping housings, machining, and in the case of the 50 trim, actually assemble and balance the turbo, is when the costs go up.

The is no off the shelf 54 trim T3/T4 combination. There are only 3 off the shelf T3/T4 combinations currently available directly from Garrett: 57trim, 60trim, and 60-1. The 60-1 is more expensive because it uses a different compressor housing. These are turbos that come directly from Garrett. We don't have to do anything to them except resell to the customer. Any other combination we assemble, machine, and balance using all Garrett parts. That is why prices are higher.

Turbonetics has the ability to cast and machine all their own parts. They use little or no parts directly from Garrett. I am not saying that one way is better than the other, it's just different. We choose to purchase and build our parts from Garrett, not Turbonetics.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

ACKK!!!!! You guys have a standard T04S housing on that thing??? How long will THAT take to spool up vs. a T04E 60-1??

And I seriously thought the 54 trim was something cheap and off the shelf, since I see a lot of Honduh boiz with em. Massie must have lied to me way back when, cuz he told me they were off the shelf.

When can I call to put my money down on the t3/t4 kit minus the turbo? Also, how much for a 3" O2 housing instead of the 2.5"? Is it even worth it?

Mike

 

[FastRthenU]

first off. NO i like FastRthenU I cant spell and im from canada EH!
No but you are right. Its from my plates FasRthnU i messed up

Yes i do have some big goals. THis year im going for high to mid 11's
then next year i hope to break tens. As for a boost controler, im just using a turbo smart MBC. I used to have a evc 4 adn i have noticed that there is no real gain from it. Its just nice to be abe to switch from low to high, and chage all your setting in the car.

 

[Scotty]

Originally posted by NOSLO2PT0
ACKK!!!!! You guys have a standard T04S housing on that thing??? How long will THAT take to spool up vs. a T04E 60-1??

Whats so standard about a T04S housing? 4" in and 2.5" out.

It's the exhaust side that will mostly effect the spool up.

 

[Unreal]

I've seen 2 turbonetics manifolds crack, never seen an SFP manifold crack. Last time I checked, SFP has a lifetime warranty against cracks. The SFP has MUCH MUCH better clearance. The AGP kit is top notch. My coating has held up 100% fine so far, for around town and sustained highway trips. So far 2 thumbs up.

So the AGP is cheaper and better, hmmm, hard choice there.

 

[HighPsi91]

I agree, the AGP kit is a really nice deal... the included parts are top notch and the price is hard to beat. If I were in the market for a t3/t4 setup I would certainly look no farther.

 

[KenTSIII]

Doesn't the AGP also use the more efficient 4bolt GT exhuast housings?

 

[FastRthenU]

yah it does. that was one of the thing i really liked about it.

 

[SlowRide]

Boy, I can't wait to get rid of my B16G and upgrade the complete setup to the agp l2r.

I have a question about the turbonetics exhaust manifold. With the EW being on the number 1 runner, wouldn't the #1 runner, or cylinder run lean when opened?

Also, what should I use to coat the agp exhaust manifold to protect the rest of the motor against heat? No more stock heat shield, time to show off a nice ex mani with big agp l2r turbo.

What WG spring does tial come with on the agp package deal? Doesn't really make any sense for any of us to run less than a 1 bar spring. Holds boost better at higher settings doens't it?

Boy, I wonder how I can pass emissions this year with part of my exhaust exposed to the atmosphere...

 

[Bigwilly6754]

Ive been in the market for a turbo kit and ive been looking a DSMsports kit for 1900.00 i wanted a 60 trim stave V . .63 a/r... now i was wondering would a LR2 turbo be better than that????? and why?? thanx everyone!

 

[Unreal]

Better in what way? Faster spooling? More power? More streetable?

l2r is a GT series dual ball bearing. But its also pricey. You can get a nice 60/57 trim AGP kit for $1650 with everything you need. I believe the l2r option is another $500. So thats $2150 for an l2r t3/t4 kit.

 

[JET]

I think I am going to get the l2r garrett setup. $2200 is spendy, but I really like the manifold. Does anyone know if you can get a better coating on it? Isn't there something like hot jet coating or something? I am also curious about a 3" O2 housing. I called them and left a message, but noone has called me back yet.

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by JET
I called them and left a message, but noone has called me back yet.

I've been in Pomona this week for the NHRA Winternationals. You will receive a call back this week. We apologize.

Ben

 

[FastRthenU]

Well i have a few questions also Ben. The coating used, is it for corrosion or heat? Or just both? What if any warranty is there on the SFP manifold? I have heard alot of good things about the 50 trim. Is the 57 or 60 trim much different?(eg. Spool up, cfm, etc)

What kind of waitting time is there on the kit with one of the off the shelf turbos, and one using a custom turbo like the 50 trim? When would it be a good idea to upgrade to the 40mm tail? Basically when will it be over run. thanks

 

[UncleBens]

ka dunk a dunk bump.