IC questions: Why hasn't this been done?

[gsxtacy]

You ever felt the condesnor on your a/c unit? Why hasn't anyone built a intercooler that you can charge the outside fins with High pressure R-134a and cool it like that? I mean how hard could THAT be? You would be gaurenteed to get cold ASS intake charge then!!!!! Anyone feel me?

GSXTACY

 

[GSTspeedracer]

Look at some newer pic's of Extreme's FMIC and see it's wrapped in something that looks like Teflon........HHHUMMMMM, what could that be?
They wouldn't tell me ( not that I'm anybody, but I do try to frequent their shop). I just read somewhere in a forum, and somebody asked the same question about the A/C thing.

 

[GSTspeedracer]

Here's one, look closely.

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Sorry, I thought it would have been bigger!!!!
(ever heard that befor....... hehehehehe)

 

[gsxtacy]

Give me 25-50 extra horsepower and let me still use my stock SMIC,,,, I would pay like $350!!!!! I think this is an idea unless someone points out a safety issue!! I can not remember if freon is flammable but I think it is......hmmmm. Imagine how cold a FMIC would be with R-134a going through it!!!!!!!!! Freeezing!!!

Anyways more thought?

Gsxtacy

 

[GSTspeedracer]

Life would suck.....if your IC cracked while pumping that **** threw it!!!!

If your just going for a High HP street I wouldn't bother thinking up witty things on the side. Just go with what has been pruven so far, this has yeild 400+ WHP cars on the street. Once you get bored with that sh@t then go out and freelance.
Strip and Street BIG difference.
Strip guys and gals done everything and are going for the ever elousive whp and ET.....
Street (for me anyway) give me some sh@t thats been PRUVEN to perform eith a nice WHP # and I can drive it to work and home.

 

[GSTspeedracer]

Think about the Environment.......

 

[larryd]

id think that NXs intercooler thing they have would do the same thing pretty much without the parasitic loss of running the AC all the time

 

[xhypno]

One of my friends, came up with the idea to use co2 to quickly cool his fmic.

He riged 2 nos nozels on either side of the fmic. Connected them by t's to a amount of metal hose, back to a 10oz paint ball co2 cartriadge (the refillable ones). He then connected a nos bottle control to is (switch on = spray).

Well as most people know, co2 when released, gets super cold, (poss. past freezing point). So when an equal amount is sprayed on the ic, 2 nozels by inlet, and 2 nozels by outlet. Cools what goes in, the fmic cools it more, the it is cool even more as it passes through the outlet.

On a dyno it gave him upwards of 45-50hp gains while on. Just be carful, co2 is also found in fire extinguishers, so don't get in the engine, you would probally backfire and stall the engine very nasty (damage).


xhypno

 

[larryd]

hmm, thats interesting.. where exactly would you spray the co2, like across the front of the intercooler i take it?

 

[venom2097]

Originally posted by gsxtacy
You ever felt the condesnor on your a/c unit? Why hasn't anyone built a intercooler that you can charge the outside fins with High pressure R-134a and cool it like that? I mean how hard could THAT be? You would be gaurenteed to get cold ASS intake charge then!!!!! Anyone feel me?

GSXTACY

One reason is you might lose to much power to make the gain worth it. What I mean is when you go racing do you leave the A/C on? No, the reason the compressor pump takes HP. also I don't know how hot I/C's get but it may heat up more than the R-134 can cool.

just my 2cents

 

[crankbender]

It has been done and it works well for what it is worth. what they do is use the ac to cool water and run the water/alcohol over the ic and do not run the ac when you are racing....run it inbetween. The problem is that the same thing can be accomplished with an alcohol/dry ice bath. These things work great but they do not allow air to flow over the IC...meaning no daily driver.

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by GSTspeedracer
Think about the Environment.......

Tree hugger. You probably do more damage with that test pipe than you would with losing 2 lbs of refrigerant into the atmosphere. Ozone depletion due to CFC's is a myth. And no, Freon (12, 22, 134, 134a or any other) is not flammable.

 

[GSTspeedracer]

:laugh: Tree hugger :laugh:

 

[2-0turbo]

I should have put a smiley in there to start with. I was trying to be funny--glad you took it in stride.

 

[greyforestgst]

its called a water to air intercooler

instead of air to air, the intercooler is in a sealed box that is filled with antifreeze. there are two small hoses that run from this box to the front of the car, with a radiator, and a pump that runs the coolant from the intercooler sealed box thingy to the heat exchange up front.

more efficient than air to air intercoolers, but its also more complex what with the pump, and more risk. if the intercooler cracks, coolant will flow into your engine under vacuum.

 

[TOPSECRET]

I was really thinking of running a custom air to water unit on the street. Everybody says why go through the trouble? I say because air to water is more efficient. Does anybody know anyone who has tried this with any success on the street? Let me know I'm really interested.

 

[g96nt]

air To Water?
like a radiator?

you want water to Air......=0]

okay... I'm A smart-ass

there's a lot of people that run water to air....
(just not many DSM's)
if i remember correctly, the cyclone/typhoon's use water to air.

 

[venom2097]

Would this work?(at the track only)

Mount a radiator in front of your FMIC fill it with ice water, maybe dryIce? then as the air flows through the radiator it should chill to < 4C (~4C is the temp of the ice water) keeping the IC nice and cool.

 

[TOPSECRET]

Well I guess I'll just take the plunge on my own. It seems like everyone worries about turbo efficiences but does'nt care how good the intercooler works. They assume the intercoolers working well just as long as it's a big front mount. I've asked questions on this before on other forums and everybody pretty much seems to be scared of their own design. The main reason why I'm going this route is because no matter how hard you try you can't hide a big front mount. If people see you have a front mount they automatically assume your fast. I like to play the undercover part you know give them a false sense of hope and then crush their dreams of speed and glory. I think water to air is better plainly put so I'll leave it too me to design something and make it work all while being asthetically appealing.

 

[ted_the_mexican]

the idea of the radiator in front of the ic might be good for cooling but keep in mind that you are also losing air flow to the ic.

 

[greyforestgst]

water to air IC's are pretty common

threes one in my bro's rx7

theres just a little heat transfer for the water, adn then a big box where the ic piping runs through and the heat exchange is inside of it

 

[TOPSECRET]

My plan was to buy a spearco core and put it where the factory sidemount is and then pump it through two heat exchangers in front of the radiator. I'm going to use b&m tranny coolers (the largest ones) and a vortech pump(the one they use for theirs). I just need to figure out what I'm going to use as a reservoir. Do you know if I should run the pump constantly? I guess I could call vortech and ask them how they do it that is after I buy the pump off of them>

 

[venom2097]

This would work great if the cost/performance ratio is good.
Thermoelecrtic refrigeration.
read about it here:
http://www.thermoelectric.com/2002/tt/index.html
I've seen them for sale on the web don't remember the prices.
Also they are small so you would need 100+ of them or one custom made to the size of your IC.

 

[Staged]

I think that there are a few plusses and minus' to the whole issue. I have read the responses and can give some old school theory that may help.
Please read carefully, as I have tested and tried nearly all these theories.
1. Using the R-134 would be colder, but not as cold as the old 12 a/c charges. R-134 was designed to be more EPA approved and consistant in cooling for smaller cars, but cooled at around 5 degrees hotter than the original 12 units.
The question; Running your A/C (Street), and the added weight of the entire unit, to cool your intake air at the IC at a temp of only 52 to 57 degrees gives what WHP to running in 80 degree weather with no A/C running and the system completely removed? And remember, the math for running your 52 degrees in 80 degree weather. You MUST ratio the difference! Plus the addition of drop in temp while moving with the air as it enters the IC.
2. Forget running it on a track. At least in sanctioned events. You will be kicked off if your A/C is running. The condensation drop off is NOT allowed on ANY track due to safety for the next driver in your lane.
3. Co2 is becoming a widely accepted use to fuel and intake air. However, it has not yet become common to the IC yet. This seems like an easy method but you must first know outside temp, running air temp, and of course the temp of the Co2.
4. The "old-school" method is to use a dry ice container. Definately a cooler and absolutely proven method. I would go this route first.

Travis