Wastegate and spring suggestion

[gixrman]

This is my first venture into the external wastegate world and need some help on spring selection and WG selection for that matter. From my understanding spring selection is critical for boost response and turbo performance. Pick the wrong spring (too soft) and the turbo will be laggy, too hard and boost spiking and surging may accure. Same with WG size. Correct? So here is my delemia, I don't know what boost pressure i'm going to be running so how do I pick the right spring, or size wastegate? (TIAL 44??) I will be going fom a E16g to this monster holset turbo and don't know what boost levels I will be able to run on the street gas. This is basicly a stock motor and don't want to destroy it in a week.

This is what I'll be running:
stock block, 8:8:1 pistons (EVO8 pistons and rods)
FP1,2 cams
Holset HX40 turbo
custom built tube manifold (I'm going to be building this myself)
Turbosmart EBC

this will be on pumpgas

 

[vintagemuscle]

A Tial 38mm and a 1 bar spring is all you need

 

[daren_p]

Do you have a general idea of what boost you plan on running? Normally the lower boost you plan on running, the larger the wastegate is required to be as you will be bypassing more flow vs running higher boost. More then likely the Tial 38 will be fine for your setup. As for the spring, you can't get any less boost then what the spring is, so make sure the spring is as low as the minimal amount of boost you want to run. Then when you want to run more boost just use your std MBC or EBC. Now I have found that even though you can run say a 12 psi spring & use your boost controller to run 20 psi, you get much nicer boost control (slightly quicker spool, boost much more stable/linear) if the spring you run is closer to the boost you run, such as using a 17 psi spring for 20 psi.

 

[gixrman]

Thanks Daren, Thats were i'm confused. Like you stated my big concern is spoolup and choosing the wrong spring or the wrong size WG since I may have to vent off a large amount of exhuast to control boost.

 

[daren_p]

There won't be a huge difference in spool up (well atleast I didn't notice much) in spring choice but like I said the boost was more stable with the spring pressure closer to the desired boost. Do you plan on running lower boost, then turning it up? The higher boost levels use two springs, so if you go to Tials website you can download a sheet of what spring/spring combos equal what boost. This way you can either buy the WG with a lower pressure spring & buy another spring to add (one needs to be large & one small, ie different diameters so both can be ran at the same time) when you want to run more boost. Or the cheeper route is to buy the value with abit less then the higher boost level you plan on running & just remove one spring if you want to run lower boost to start.

 

[AWDGSX415]

Hey guys we have a special blowout sale going on right now http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267892

 

[gixrman]

Hey guys we have a special blowout sale going on right now http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267892

Your TIAL 44mm is that the v-band our the other style? The one on your site shows the flange stlye.

 

[gixrman]

There won't be a huge difference in spool up (well atleast I didn't notice much) in spring choice but like I said the boost was more stable with the spring pressure closer to the desired boost. Do you plan on running lower boost, then turning it up? The higher boost levels use two springs, so if you go to Tials website you can download a sheet of what spring/spring combos equal what boost. This way you can either buy the WG with a lower pressure spring & buy another spring to add (one needs to be large & one small, ie different diameters so both can be ran at the same time) when you want to run more boost. Or the cheeper route is to buy the value with abit less then the higher boost level you plan on running & just remove one spring if you want to run lower boost to start.

Thats a good idea, i would rather start out low and see what I can push. Thanks!!!

 

[AWDGSX415]

Your TIAL 44mm is that the v-band our the other style? The one on your site shows the flange stlye.

v-band style

 

[greentrbo_95gst]

The exact description of the new 44m wg is as follows:
"High temp NiCrFe based alloy is used for valve and 347SS valve housing will offer longer product life compared to competing designs. 17-7 PH Stainless Steel actuator spring gives consistent pressure at high temperature, resist "relaxing" at temperature to 900F (483C). Comes with all flanges and hardware. Brand New! V-Band Setup.

 

[daren_p]

Like was mentioned the current 44mm gate is a vband setup & it will come with the mating flanges for both WG inlet & outlet & both inlet & outlet vband clamps.

On a side note, the spring pressure that Tial states is pretty close to the actual pressure you'll see. Think I saw maybe 1 psi less then the spring was rated for, with the ~13 psi spring.

Thought I may as well mention, the tops that are anodized will change colour with heat (more heat = more colour change). Some colours aren't as effected & won't change colour that much, I believe Tial told me the purple was the best at retaining its colour. The polished one, since it has no anodizing, will stay the exact same colour. I can tell you the black changes colour alot & quickly. Within a few weeks mine no longer resembled black & now is a copper colour.

 

[gixrman]

Thanks agian I checked TIAL's site and allmost all of the spring combo's start with the blue spring at 13.5psi and then and a smaller spring to up the pressure so thats were I'll start.

 

[gixrman]

The exact description of the new 44m wg is as follows:
"High temp NiCrFe based alloy is used for valve and 347SS valve housing will offer longer product life compared to competing designs. 17-7 PH Stainless Steel actuator spring gives consistent pressure at high temperature, resist "relaxing" at temperature to 900F (483C). Comes with all flanges and hardware. Brand New! V-Band Setup.

Well then why does it not say that on your website?

Tial 44mm Wastegate
Item# newitem295821344
Regular price: $369.00
Sale price: $340.00
Product Description
347 Stainless Steel Alloy is used for valve and valve housing. High temperature silicone Nomex reinforced actuator diaphragm. 17-7 PH Stainless Steel actuator spring gives consistent pressure at high temperature, resists "relaxing" at temperature to 900F (483C). Nitronic 60 Stainless Steel is used for the valve seat, and valve bushing the same material used in the higher level gates for reliability and longevity. CNC Machined 304L 12mm thick weld flanges.
Is not V-band
thats what it says.
I'm not trying to be an A-hole here but I want to make sure I'm buying the right product. Thats a good price and I want to buy it but I hope you understand my apprehention when you state one thing, I go to place my order and its says something completely different.
Help me out here.