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TuRbo help, fpbig28 vs. 16g

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Dylan

alright, i am in the process of upgrading the turbo. i have read a lot about the big16g, what do yall think.?

i dont want to spend over like 900$ for it. also does anyone know anything about the forced performance, FPbig28?

this is my other option i was considering. which one is better? big16g vs. fpbig28? i want one that i can more or less bolt right on, and not have to suddenly change my fuel sys. ( i will later though) so what can i get to get mad hp and boost?
 
ok everyone here is going to tell you the same thing, do you supporting mods first.. Its pointless to slap on a bigger turbo without doing the supporting mods as youll notice next to no gain at all.

BTW, what are your goals? thats a big choice in turbo selection..

I own a Big 28 and if your looking for direct bolt on, then thats what you want.. similar power to the Big 16G yet a direct bolt on..
 
I completely agree with Larryd, have noticed one thing in common with all DSM's. You do the supporting mods first to minimize the risk of making something go "Boom", to learn more about whats under the hood, and to buy yourself time on the Turbo decision. Every post I have read consists of -
...reading, questions, supporting mod purchase, supporting mod install, reading, questions, supporting mod purchase, supporting mod install, reading, questions, then the dreaded Turbo purchase, which has no wrong answer.

Most people love their turbos no matter which way they went, and regardless to why the choose that one. BUT by doing the supporting mods first you will learn more about how everything works and how the next piece will help you reach your goal.

Myself, my goal is an 11 sec FWD daily driver. I have a battle ahead of me, but that is what makes it so much fun. If I can create my "Viper" killer than I will be happy as can be (Vipers I read are 12.2sec 1/4 mile - hope i'm right).
 
i dont know what it will take to get a fwd DSM in the 11's in daily driven trim. here is a guy with a similar project, i dont think his car runs 11's though.

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The car pictured above belongs to Royd Alimusa who works in the sales department of Extreme. Five years ago Royd came to extreme and told Terry "I want the fastest FWD DSM in the country". Over that period of time Royd has been modifying his car with the intention of hitting the top spot on the FWD DSM list. The car is driven daily and frequently tears up the streets of Northern Virginia. The setup Royd has gone with has made 463 hp to the wheels w/o nitrous on Extreme's dyno. Along with the fully built race motor he decided to add a Nitrous Express 100hp Single fogger shot to top it all off. Here is a list of the modifications he currently has on his car:

Custom 3" intake w/Extreme DIS filter
Extreme 3" cat-back exhaust
Extreme 3" downpipe
3" race pipe
Ported '95 exhaust manifold
Nitrous Express 100 hp single fogger
Nippendenso 720cc fuel injectors
Extreme high pressure fuel pump
SX fuel pressure regulator
Extreme modified fuel rail
Extreme stainless steel O2 housing w/Tial external wastegate
Turbochargers.com front mounted intercooler
Extreme custom intercooler piping
Extreme upper intercooler pipe
Turbo XS Type H Racing blow off valve
Extreme manual boost controller
Clutch Masters racing clutch
Extreme sheet metal intake manifold
Ported/polished head w/3 angle valve job
PMS EFI engine management
PMS upgraded mass air sensor
Web Cam racing cams
Stainless steel valves
Crower racing rods
Extreme/Ross forged pistons 8.5 : 1
Total Seal racing rings
ARP head studs
Unorthodox adjustable cam sprockets
Unorthodox Racing crank pulley
Frankenstein level 5 turbo, ported and clipped
Extreme Motorsports racing ignition
Magnecor 8.5 mm spark plug wires
Forgeline 16x8 RS modular wheels
Nitto 555 Drag Radials
Eibach Sportline lowering springs
Extreme front strut tower bar
Upcoming plans call for a Haltech E6K standalone system, full fuel system with -8 lines, and a turbo upgrade.
 
Originally posted by larryd
wow.. 11 sec daily driver on FWD?? and here I thought i was crazy wanting 12 second daily driver FWD :)
Click to expand...

That's my goal too. 12 sec daily driver in STREET TRIM (thats the hard part) Also, I want to be a very worthy opponent in SCCA solo 2 class D(??) street modified. My ultimate goal is to try to compete in the SCC ultimate street car challenge.

As for the turbo selection, BIG16G flows 550cfm vs FPBIG28's 520cfm(??). The BIG16G has more overall power potential but the FPBIG28 spools a little faster. Definately do the supporting mods first...

At 463 wheel HP, Royd Alimusa's 1g is DEFINATELY capable of 11's, if not faster. If those are all his mods, he needs to start paying attention to the suspension so he can hook up better. Adjustable shocks will help, or some drag launch springs. There is a shop (MMR motorsports) that makes a front subframe brace for honda's. It acts like a traction bar for FWD's. From what I've heard from people who have purchased it, they say it drastially reduces weight transfer, and actually makes the front end 'squat' under hard acceleration. The person I talked to who has it says his best 60' in his 13 sec CRX is a 1.7 on STREET TIRES!! He also told me that adding the brace dropped his times from 13.7's to 13.3's. Us FWD DSMers loose ALOT of time from poor 60's and weight transfer between shifts. I think someone should find out if MMR or someone can make a similar product for our cars....
 
aight, thanks for the input all.

after i posted this post i read more up on the 20g.
I figure if im gona do all the supporting mods, i might as well go
all the way with a 20g.

Please tell me all of your inputs on the 20g. But im sure that needs an install kit. So the big28 bolts right on? god so many choices
 
Originally posted by larryd
wow.. 11 sec daily driver on FWD?? and here I thought i was crazy wanting 12 second daily driver FWD :)
Click to expand...

I figure with my FP Green / Spearco 2-272 / 3" exhaust / 660cc's and 255lph fuel I have the fuel and flow going good. I'm going to switch gears and start on the Suspension / Transmission next. I figure I have enough under the hood to toast my clutch and wheel hop like crazy so I better tighten up the ride if I don't wanna break stuff. The Suspension and Transmission will take me awhile because I plan to do the LSD, full tranny rebuild, etc so I have to save up $$.

Once the Suspension and Tranmission is done I will switch back to the engine and do the bottom end rebuild. By this time my tranny will hopefully be able to handle the HP and I may have a clue on what a bottom end engine build up consists of and why i need it :D . That's the plan at least unless something breaks along the way.
 
Oh yes, a DSM'er can only handle driving a base model Neon for a few days a week. Anything more makes you angry cause it has to be the most gutless, pathetic vehicle I have driven. I would compare it to a 4-door motorized scooter. I honestly think my son can take me on his big wheel in a 1/4 mile when i'm driving the Neon. It would be a close race :D

Also my drive to work is quite long (80 miles ea way) so it makes for good logging. I take some canyon roads to dodge California trafic, then some freeways so I get some good logs under different loads along the way. Oh I almost forget my beautiful freeway onramp where I do my WOT pulls to 120mph :cool:

If you go Green I'll glady give ya whatever info I can on it. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
This is the same question I was faced with this week.. I chose the big16.. mainly because its $665 from Forced performance, and flows more CFM..

They are pretty much identical turbos, either will satisfy your go fast lust.
 
i just ordered the big 16, was wanting the big 28 but they were out of parts till july. i have to get my car running it has been out of commission for 2 months already. tired of driving my girls slow eclipse 3g. i have heard it is the same thing as a big 28 other than it is in a 14b housing instead of a t25. it is actually a bigger housing which i have heard is better. the only downfall is that u have to have a kit for a 2g. i got it for around 800 with it ported and flapper upgrade and install kit. thats not bad shipped and all. i dont have all the mods yet but i had know choice my turbo was shot and i shattered a piston and bent a conecting rod. got a 6 bolt block built the strongest with stock internals. it is a combination of the best of both generations. i have 1g big rods attached to 2g pistons. balanced shafts removed and it is balanced and blueprinted. pistons are coated. it looks great. now im just waiting on my turbo and flywheel. cant wait to get it back. i will let u all know the results.
 
see thats the thing the big28 can be intalled easier,

what are the diff support mods between the 16g/big28 vs the 20g,
thats right, im thinking 20 g. boo ya

oh and heyrayden, were did you get the whole deal for 800??
 
Originally posted by Dylan
see thats the thing the big28 can be intalled easier,

what are the diff support mods between the 16g/big28 vs the 20g,
thats right, im thinking 20 g. boo ya

oh and heyrayden, were did you get the whole deal for 800??
Click to expand...

I believe the Buschurs 20G is a similar install as the FP Green. It may use the coolant lines though? Not sure cause I don't have one, but never the less I installed my FP Green, EVO 3 Mani, VP O2, Tial WG all in one day with VERY limited mechanical abilities if that helps. I highly recommend start installing the basic mods yourself, save the stock pieces just incase, that way you become comfortable with your car. The installs are not that hard. I have done all my installs to date including fuel, exhaust, lifters, turbo, etc. If you can read instructions, apply common sense, and are half way coordinated you can do it. Just do searches for install threads on the pieces you are going with so that you know what other people ran into ahead of time.
 
Originally posted by sdees2002


That's my goal too. 12 sec daily driver in STREET TRIM (thats the hard part) Also, I want to be a very worthy opponent in SCCA solo 2 class D(??) street modified. My ultimate goal is to try to compete in the SCC ultimate street car challenge.

As for the turbo selection, BIG16G flows 550cfm vs FPBIG28's 520cfm(??). The BIG16G has more overall power potential but the FPBIG28 spools a little faster. Definately do the supporting mods first...

At 463 wheel HP, Royd Alimusa's 1g is DEFINATELY capable of 11's, if not faster. If those are all his mods, he needs to start paying attention to the suspension so he can hook up better. Adjustable shocks will help, or some drag launch springs. There is a shop (MMR motorsports) that makes a front subframe brace for honda's. It acts like a traction bar for FWD's. From what I've heard from people who have purchased it, they say it drastially reduces weight transfer, and actually makes the front end 'squat' under hard acceleration. The person I talked to who has it says his best 60' in his 13 sec CRX is a 1.7 on STREET TIRES!! He also told me that adding the brace dropped his times from 13.7's to 13.3's. Us FWD DSMers loose ALOT of time from poor 60's and weight transfer between shifts. I think someone should find out if MMR or someone can make a similar product for our cars....
Click to expand...
Hmmm... Just wondering, where did you get your 520cfm figures for the BIG28 at? Forced Performance, as far as I know, have never give the BIG28 a cfm rating yet. If it was rated at 520cfm's that would only be 10 more cfm's than what the old T-28 did, in which it had a rating of 510cfm's. I would tend to think it's more in the 535cfm range or maybe even more. IMHO
 
see thats the thing, im like a ****ing mechanic, i know so much about car (n/a's) ive rebuilt engines ect. im just new to turbos.

yeh i was thinking there really isnt THAT much i need for support mods, wont be a big of a thing.

alright if the damn hahn racing ppl would get me back a price quote for the super 20 g, i could get a good i dea of what im doing. the only thing is the super 20g says it has an internal wastegate and is good for 15-17 psi, what if i want more? would i go for an external.? or does that not have to do with it, is that all about the boost controller? btw wtf is the boost controller. im thinking it lets the bov or wastegate stay closed longer or something, please inform me
 
supporting mods for Big 16g or Big 28 type turbo consist of

New Spark Plug Wires
New Spark Plugs
Boost Controller
Blow Off Valve
Intake Pipe (Injen or Dejon Tool)
Hard Intercooler Piping (Injen or Greddy)
2 1/2 or 3" Cat back Exhaust
Downpipe
Ported O2 Housing or O2 Dump pipe
Intercooler Upgrade (larged SMIC or FMIC)
Fuel Injectors 550s or 660s
Fuel Pump (190lph-255lph)
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Apexi S-AFC & Pocket Logger or DSMLink, laptop, and 95 Eprom ECU

thats if you want to get the best out of yer turbo.. for something larger like a Green or 20G

In addition to everything said above
Exhaust Manifold with mount for external wastegate
External Wastegate
Install Kit (including oil lines)
Larger Injectors
Larger Fuel Pump

if I missed anything then other people can feel free to chime in
 
they buy that built my block said that he has done the big 28 and 16g with the bottom end that i had him build, 11 and 12's cars. now that will be a little harder in my car being it is a fwd spyder, but it is possible with tunning. he estimated my output to be around 310 whp without any other mods yet. i do have a boost controller though and k&n filter. the turbo is good for 350 whp. another 50 shot of nitrous and u are at 400 whp. damn that kicks ass.

ps. i got the big 16g for 800 because they gave me half off of the install kit, being they were going to have back order on parts till july on the big 28 i had originally ordered.
 
310whp with a big 16g and only intake and boost controller?? dont get your hopes up.. I made just a tad under 280hp with all supporting mods with the big 28 @ 20psi.. granted tuned I should be around 300-315whp but thats with a full exhaust, fmic, all intercooler hard piping, and fuel work..

Also I got news for you man.. 11s and 12s on an awd DSM means low to high 13s fwd.. Im in the same boat right now..

And on your (the turbo is good for 350whp) which btw isnt the turbo alone, thats the car with every supporting mod available for the turbo would be capable of pushing around 350whp, but thats not what im getting at here.. you said 350whp + a 50 shot of nitrous = 400whp.. well thats actually incorrect. You cant say an intake = 10hp and an exhaust = 10hp so both will give me 20, thats called riceboy math.. anyhow if you want 50hp to the wheels from nitrous your going to want an NX kit, they rate at the wheels, not at the flywheel and its more like a 60shot.

Anyhow I dont mean to sound like Im busting your balls here but your hopes are in the clouds and im just trying to bring you back to reality, it takes alot to make the power your expecting and the times you want, more then just a turbo and nitrous..
 
yeah i got ya. so wait im gona need bigger than 550-660 injectors and 250 pump to run a 20g? are you sure, most ppl tell me thats all you need.

also, the fwd vs awd is good for lauch only, after that does it really matter? if i can get a good launch outa the fwd would i be able to pull it off.

larryd, when u said 280 hp w/ the big28, why is that, i figuered it would be more, are you happy with that turbo though?
 
in regards to the size of the injectors, different people will give you different answers.. I know Im on 550s with the big 28 and some people say I should be using 660s.. a bigger turbo like a 20g Im almost positive youd need atleast 660s..

the Walbro 255lph may be enuf to run that turbo though, im not sure as Ive never looked into it to much..

FWD vs AWD.. AWD will literally destroy a FWD off the line.. my best 60ft to date is 2.168 which is incredible for street radials and FWD for me, an AWD can get around 1.8 almost effotless which is already almost .4 off my time from the getgo, not to mention when FWD shifts into 2nd your most likely to spin if you shift to fast, not with AWD, BANG and go.. so to answer your question, no its not just off the line.. If I shift fast @ 20psi with my Eclipse, I can spin into 3rd gear easily..

in regards to the 280whp, am I happy with it.. eh kinda sorta.. I wanted 300whp but figuring Im completely untuned and Ive never even looked at an o2 wideband for my car its not bad.. mind you its also 280whp not crank hp.. that means Im around 330hp at the flywheel.. with everything else I just did including 1g part swaps and cams, I expect to be around 325-335whp tuned.
 
Originally posted by Dylan
yeah i got ya. so wait im gona need bigger than 550-660 injectors and 250 pump to run a 20g? are you sure, most ppl tell me thats all you need.

also, the fwd vs awd is good for lauch only, after that does it really matter? if i can get a good launch outa the fwd would i be able to pull it off.

larryd, when u said 280 hp w/ the big28, why is that, i figuered it would be more, are you happy with that turbo though?
Click to expand...
That 280hp at the wheels is pretty darn good considering he was at 20psi, and untuned. There are some people running 23psi with the FP BIG28. Just my 2 cents worth!
 
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