Its time to rebuild....

[Boosten]

Ive got a 92 TSI that I'm redoing, Ive got the money to do it, so I want it done right. Here's a list of everything that I can think of. If anyone has something to add/change other than head gaskets and new seals and all that good stuff please let me know. I'm going to buy the L2R and I honestly want somewhere around 400-500 hp. I don't plan on running nitrous, but I want a built motor that is ready for it. Any wisemen, please help....

-JE Pistons 9.0:1 .020 over
-Crower Rods
-HKS Cams - Intake 264
-HKS Cams - Exhaust 272
-Balance Shaft Eliminator Kit
-Timing Belt
-Knife Edge and Balanced Crankshaft
-Titanium Valve Springs and Retainers
-Stainless Steel Valves
-Lifters
-ARP Head Studs
-ARP Rod Bolts
-ARP Main Studs
-FMIC (with piping)
-3" Turbo back
-Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
-AFPR
-660cc injectors
-AFC (even though it might not be enough)
-L2R
-2g MAF
-2g Ported exhaust man.
-ACT 2600 clutch
-BOV (not sure which one yet)
-Gauges (boost, egt......)
-lots of porting

Anything else, please let me know.....

 

[candela]

You should definetly consider a stand alone system as well as a 272 intake cam. then consider some 720cc injectors and some other misc things... I have to much comentary on this stuff Ill shut up. But i fyou want 500whp youll need more than whats listed to run reliably

Austin

 

[rdrkt]

If you are going to pony up for crower rods go all the way and get ross pistons. JE pistons are far to picky. If you are serious about making big power up top go with a pair of 272s the difference in idle is negligible. Knife edging the crank is not only a waste but it is a risk when machining. The only way I would do that is if the crank had some damage. If its good don’t bother. ARP headstuds are a great idea but the other ARP stuff is not necessary. When you are thinking about a FMIC think 216 Spearco core. The Walbro pump might not provide enough flow past 450 and it’s a ton louder than a Supra pump. Stick with the stock BOV it will provide enough clamping to hold the power you are after. The SAFC should be enough for you. Skip the egt gauge it’s a waste. I think that’s all.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Rdrkt: I'm surprised you said and AFC would be sufficient with all the standalone talk always going on. I personally want to see how far I can go with the AFC on my setup

 

[rdrkt]

I was making about 400hp on pump gas with my 1g hacked MAS. If you know what you are doing it should be "good enough". But eventually it will get old fighting with the ECU and you will want to move to a better solution.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Well we will see if I know what doing soon enough

 

[JET]

Alright, I hope rdrkt was kidding about not needing an EGT guage! If you do go with a Supra pump, you will need a better AFPR. I would also suggest different pistons, as rdrkt did. I have Wiseco's in and really like them The JE's are noisy, but the Wiseco's are very quiet and 8.8:1 seems to be perfect. If you are only planning on making 500 whp you can get Eagle rods instead of the Crowers. It will save you some cash and they are also lighter so it will rev quicker. I also agree on getting a set of 272's and not messing with the crank. Knife edging messes up the harmonics in a crank. There is a reason why the factory put that extra weight there.

 

[Boosten]

Originally posted by rdrkt
If you are going to pony up for crower rods go all the way and get ross pistons. JE pistons are far to picky.

Why do you say that JEs are picky? I belive you and all, but I never here of anyone talking about them (but then again I've never researched it). Also, you say that the Walbro might not be enough and that its louder that the Supras fuel pump, which one's better? And about the injectors, you think 770cc would be good like someone else already said? Or will 660cc do the job. I see Larry has 660cc (with his L2R) and he's maxing them out. Let me know....

Thanks
Riss

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by JET
Alright, I hope rdrkt was kidding about not needing an EGT guage!

Not at all. An EGT gauge is about as worthless as an a/f gauge. Its not a useful tuning tool. Your egts can be find and you can still be knocking etc. Get acess to a wideband 02 sensor or buy one yourself that is 10x more useful.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Boosten
Why do you say that JEs are picky? I believe you and all, but I never here of anyone talking about them (but then again I've never researched it).

The JE have a tendency to need a lot of piston to wall clearance to work properly. So your motor will have the tendency to piston slap when cold. Of course that all depends on who is doing your machine worke etc. Several major vendors have stopped using them is good enough for me. There are so many better solutions out there.

Originally posted by Boosten
Also, you say that the Walbro might not be enough and that its louder that the Supras fuel pump, which one's better?

Better is one of those hard things to define. The Supra pump flows more fuel is substantially quieter and marginally more expensive then the Walbro. I think its worth it some people don’t. I will tell you that I switched a 255 out for a Supra pump in my car.

Originally posted by Boosten
And about the injectors, you think 770cc would be good like someone else already said? Or will 660cc do the job. I see Larry has 660cc (with his L2R) and he's maxing them out.

That depends on a lot of things. You have to determine how much power you want to make on pump gas, on race gas. You have to determine what type of fuel pressure you are comfortable running. And to some extent your injector choice will also be determined by what EMS you go with. A VPC, afc combo will require less fuel that a Haltech running batch fire etc. Forced Performance sells injectors pretty cheap if it were me I would be a slightly larger injector as opposed to having to rebuy later.

 

[Boosten]

Originally posted by rdrkt
If you are going to pony up for crower rods go all the way and get ross pistons.

I checked out Rosspistons.com and didn't see anything for a 4G63 (only saw stuff for big blocks and muscle cars). Would I have to have them custome made, or are they on the sight and I just can't find them?

 

[rdrkt]

You can try here here here

 

[Boosten]

NICE!! thanx.....

 

[Boosten]

Originally posted by rdrkt
Of course that all depends on who is doing your machine worke etc.

The guy that's doing my machine work actually builds Supras (he just got done with Haulk Hogens). I went to his shop the other day and he had 7 Supras sitting there, and 3 of them were torn apart. SO hopefully he will do a good job for me..... I guess I'll find out soon.

 

[Boosten]

I must say, this really helped me out..... I like seeing everyones diff. opinions on diff. products. Now let me ask, how much harder is it to tune w/ a pair of 272 cams compared to 264/272 cams? I see that Rdrkt says there "negligible" but what exactly does that mean....? Are you saying, who gives a sh!t about the idle just get em, cause there that much better? Funny thing is, I know a lot of DSM guys frown on going from completly stock to having an L2R w/ a built motor and all the goods, but my theory is, do it once, and do it right!

 

[JET]

I do have a wideband, but I would also never give up my EGT. My wideband won't tell me if things are getting too hot! I am not saying to use EGT as a tuning tool, but to use it as a warning guage. The 272's shouldn't be much worse, I would go with them. I did the big step approach also and it is a PITA to tune it. I did alot of research before I bought my pistons. It was between the Ross and the Wiseco's. I got the Wiseco's and am extremely happy. 8k miles and 7 months later and they are still as quiet as stock pistons, unlike clacky JE's (they need 2x as much clearance as a Wiseco - poor sideskirt design)

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Boosten
I must say, this really helped me out..... I like seeing everyones diff. opinions on diff. products. Now let me ask, how much harder is it to tune w/ a pair of 272 cams compared to 264/272 cams? I see that Rdrkt says there "negligible" but what exactly does that mean....? Are you saying, who gives a sh!t about the idle just get em, cause there that much better?

I got a pair of 272s with 850cc injectors to idle better than my web "street" cams with 650ccs. How easy getting them to idle right will depend on what you are using to tune your fuel. If you do the cam install "right" and degree them while installing them you could get a near stock idle.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by JET
I do have a wideband, but I would also never give up my EGT. My wideband won't tell me if things are getting too hot! I am not saying to use EGT as a tuning tool, but to use it as a warning guage.

I cant think of a situation where with a proper a/f ratio your exhaust gas temp would be “too hot”. I just think the money can be better spent elsewhere that’s all.

 

[OMN_DSM]

JET,
Sorry a little off topic but what is your pistin to wall clearance on your Wiseco's? I'm getting ready to have all my machine work done and I have a hard time trusting anyone with such precise work and I want to know what know every detail about what is being done. Thanks

Mike

rdrkt, Your opinion would be helpful also. And what is your piston to wall clearance on the 2G pistons?

Mike

 

[Boosten]

Ok.... I just got done reading the thread "How far has a 6 bolt/95piston set up gone", and what I got out of reading that is if I build this engine how I want it, people say it will only last 20,000-30,000 miles?? Whats the deal?? If thats the case I can scratch my idea of building a motor w/ forged internals. But then again I don't know if that accurate or not.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Boosten
Ok.... I just got done reading the thread "How far has a 6 bolt/95piston set up gone", and what I got out of reading that is if I build this engine how I want it, people say it will only last 20,000-30,000 miles?? Whats the deal?? If thats the case I can scratch my idea of building a motor w/ forged internals. But then again I don't know if that accurate or not.

I dont know where you got that idea Most people will blow their motor or sell the car before they ever hit 50k miles.

 

[Boosten]

Originally posted by rdrkt

I dont know where you got that idea Most people will blow their motor or sell the car before they ever hit 50k miles.

I read this (post #4)http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23890, thats where the idea of 20k-30k came from. Now I'm confused. I mean this car isn't really going to be a daily driver but then again its going to get driven a few days out of the week. So now Im stuck between a rock and a hard spot about the whole "rebuilding my engine BS" Mabey you can clear things up for me.

I dont really plan on beating the piss out of this motor (I very rarely go to the track), I just want something that will produce 400-500 hp and be reliable. I dont want to have to rebuild a motor in a year or even 2 years because I used forged internals, and now it has to many miles on it.

 

[rdrkt]

If this helps you out any I have a 91 rod 95 piston motor in my car and it is making around 400hp on pump gas driven everyday it runs. I will tell you that anything over 375 on pump gas is going to be pretty tough unless the tuning is dead on. Which means that you will make less than that normally then every once and awhile run race gas and make big power. Do you know what I mean?

 

[Boosten]

Ya, I here what you're saying.... But I'm still all mixed up. I guess Im just under the impression that a built motor w/ forged internalls wont last that long. Is that the case or am I just getting the wrong idea. I guess what I'm trying to ask is, will the motor I want (ross/crower) go as many miles as your set up? Or am I just totally confused??

 

[2gTurboS]

So, if you are building a Race motor with forged internals,big turbo,making 400 plus hp on pump. It is not going to be a daily driver and its not going to be a long lasting motor, example..20+k miles a year and not having to rebuild it for a few years. It will be exactly what it should be called a Race motor and it shouldnt be built and or meant for a car that is driven on the street regularly and fully reliable for years to come.This is not fact by any means it is more or less a question, as I am kinda in the dark on this one, could anyone shed some more light on this side of the subject please.