Need Advice On Which Injectors To Get

[alex99gst]

I just recently got my car back up and running right and now it is time to upgrade injectors. I already have the 255 pump and AFPR and all supporting mods. My last few logs at 18psi my injectors were maxed at 100% IDC at right around 5800 rpms, but I could feel the car fall on its face at 5000 when it hit 90%. I was looking at the logs and if I calculated it correctly, with the 550's I would be at 100% IDC at right at redline. I don't plan on taking it to redline often. Do you guys think I should order the FIC 650's instead or would I have problems with the more agressive timing curve and idle problems? I have the MAFT to tune with. I do want to raise the boost as much as I safely can, but don't want problems with timing and idle. I did search but everyones situation is different you know.

 

[donmagicjuan]

You might try finding a set of stock Evo 8 injectors. They're 560cc, and would work pretty well on a small 16G. I'm running them on my setup right now until I can afford to upgrade. With the power I'm currently making (and at 26 psi), I'm getting 93% IDC-- *gulp*-- so I'm sure you would see less than 85% when trying to get the most out of your turbo.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I agree. 560cc would be a good choice. With 550's, depending on the brand, you should be ok to run 18psi. Different brands have different flow ratings. Some brands flow well over 550cc but are labeled as such. I would go with either a set of EVO 8 injectors or FIC 650's just to be safe. Rather have to much than not enough.

 

[alex99gst]

Thats what I've been hearing is that the evo 560's seem to flow more than they are rated for. I was looking for those but didn't find a set from any reliable sellers. I'll still try to keep an eye out for them since they will probably be a lot cheaper.

 

[daren_p]

Ya the 560's should be enough with your current setup & boost levels but you will likely have to upgrade if your setup/plans change in the future. If you do think you will be going larger/upping the boost it would be cheeper in the long run to go for the 650's now. FYI, it looks like FIC has a pretty good sale on at the moment, there's a post in the vendors section.

 

[UMR98GSX]

Yea don't always believe the flow ratings given by the manufacturer. If you are going to upgrade then look at Denso 660's. They will be more than ample for most things you might run. I just got mine back from being cleaned and flow tested and they all flowed between 730-760

 

[Eastwood95]

660's for sure. It might be a little bit of a pain to tune at first, but its worth it to get them, because you're probably going to get a bigger turbo sometime in the future...and you dont want to have to get new injectors twice.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Keep in mind that all these injectors your looking at are rated at a certain base pressure. If yours is higher or lower they will flow differently. You could as a temporary fix up your base fuel pressure just to give yourself a little safety cushion until you get the bigger injectors.

 

[snowboard1]

I got evo 8 injectors they work very well on my setup with an evo III turbo.
I dont have any hp numbers yet but Im going to get my car tuned in a couple weeks as soon as my water injection kit comes in.

 

[donmagicjuan]

I got evo 8 injectors they work very well on my setup with an evo III turbo.
I dont have any hp numbers yet but Im going to get my car tuned in a couple weeks as soon as my water injection kit comes in.

Water injection is the coolest...

 

[Josh_at_FIC]

Yea don't always believe the flow ratings given by the manufacturer. If you are going to upgrade then look at Denso 660's. They will be more than ample for most things you might run. I just got mine back from being cleaned and flow tested and they all flowed between 730-760

Im sorry but I have to say something about Denso's. Denso Injectors from my experience have had erratic flows.

If you order a set of 660cc injectors and your injectors flow between 730-760cc that is going to be a pain in the ass to tune and is just bad news. FIC injectors are flow tested and time and time again 650cc injectors flow 650cc + or - a few cc's.

Stay away from Densos please. I have had a set of 660cc injectors tested before where the flow ratings came back 686cc, 700cc, 725cc and 760cc. After that I chose to stay far away from them.

If you have any questions regarding fuel injectors, please feel free to contact me.

thanks,
Josh
[email protected]
www.fuelinjectorclinic.com
AIM: Josh at FIC
Phone: 401-569-8607

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Chimed in before I could say anything about them! I had these too and it was impossible to tune. I would get it set right on 12.6:1 and would make one more pull and it would flutter and drop to 12:1 on my wideband with Denso 660's. They aren't consistant flowing.

 

[dsmdan83]

I usually don't respond to things and I have no direct knowledge of the performance of Denso injectors, but I can lend some advice for the quality of there products. Since I work for Denso. The plant I work in is an OEM supplier, not aftermarket; but knowing Denso and there standards on quality. I would without a doubt feel safe buying something from them. They have one of the, if not the toughest stance on quality. You can't be the number 2 automotive parts manufacturer it the world if your not committed on quality.

 

[donmagicjuan]

I usually don't respond to things and I have no direct knowledge of the performance of Denso injectors, but I can lend some advice for the quality of there products. Since I work for Denso. The plant I work in is an OEM supplier, not aftermarket; but knowing Denso and there standards on quality. I would without a doubt feel safe buying something from them. They have one of the, if not the toughest stance on quality. You can't be the number 2 automotive parts manufacturer it the world if your not committed on quality.

That's great that you feel loyalty toward your company and all, but unless you provide some hard evidence rather than a few generalities about Denso's commitment to quality, your statement doesn't really hold water. Josh from F.I.C. reported the results he obtained when testing a random sample of your company's product, and not one of the injector flowrates fell within what I would expect to be an acceptable range of values for a company so focused on quality control. While I don't doubt that Denso has its merits, the overwhelming consensus here is that their injectors aren't making the grade.

 

[dsmdan83]

Well my statement had nothing to do about the performance of the Denso injectors. I was stating a fact that I know from personal experience. I highly doubt any brand of injectors are going to flow exactly what the manufacturer states to the tee. But I was just giving my knowledge towards the quality standards that goes in to there processes. I just have an extreme amount of faith that their products will last and not go below their standardized values (i.e.. flow rate). And besides I'm not trying to sell you Denso injectors I was just wanting to give my knowledge behind Denso's standards. I just hate seeing people setting a negative attitude towards a company. I know of a few threads on this web site that made a negative attitude towards a transmission company about customer service. I almost turned on them just from reading the threads, but I needed something from them and got excellent service and fast shipping. I also don't like seeing another vendor put a competitor down to gain business. My opinion that should not be allowed. And my last statement is we should not be hi-jacking Alex99gst's thread by having this discussion. It should be done through PM or The Vendor review section.

 

[boosted spartan]

i am also looking for injectors, i think im gonna go with the evo 560cc's since they can be bought for cheap...and for my setup its enough.

 

[Josh_at_FIC]

I was not putting them down. I was just stating from personal experience and from research over the last few years that Denso injectors are known for having erratic flows and why would I tell someone to put something in their car that may hurt them in the long run. Before FIC, PTE and RC came along Denso was the only manufacturer to provide a plug and play injector for the DSM so its what had to be used. Now that there are other injectors available I think people should know what they are getting before they make a purchase. A injector that flows 100+cc more than it is rated is just unsafe.

Also, we are a sponsoring vendor and are able to offer products for sale.

thank you,
josh
[email protected]
www.fuelinjectorclinic.com
Phone: 401-569-8607
AIM: Josh at FIC

 

[donmagicjuan]

Well my statement had nothing to do about the performance of the Denso injectors.

Then why did you post it in a thread asking for advice about injectors?

And my last statement is we should not be hi-jacking Alex99gst's thread by having this discussion.

So far you're the only one to veer off the topic of injectors, which was the basis for this thread.

 

[alex99gst]

I was pretty sure I was going to get injectors soon, but as much as I keep impulse buying things and not wanting to work, they may have to wait a couple more weeks.

 

[bfdahl]

I was not putting them down. I was just stating from personal experience and from research over the last few years that Denso injectors are known for having erratic flows and why would I tell someone to put something in their car that may hurt them in the long run. Before FIC, PTE and RC came along Denso was the only manufacturer to provide a plug and play injector for the DSM so its what had to be used. Now that there are other injectors available I think people should know what they are getting before they make a purchase. A injector that flows 100+cc more than it is rated is just unsafe.

Also, we are a sponsoring vendor and are able to offer products for sale.

thank you,
josh
[email protected]
www.fuelinjectorclinic.com
Phone: 401-569-8607
AIM: Josh at FIC

I also dont claim to be any kind of injector expert but i have run both FIC and now Densos
and noticed little if any difference in preformance. However as a frequent flyer at RRE, they have almost nothing good to say about the Delphi style injectors. and claim to "fix" many cars with tunning issues with the Denso injectors.

 

[Stapl3]

Im sorry but I have to say something about Denso's. Denso Injectors from my experience have had erratic flows.

If you order a set of 660cc injectors and your injectors flow between 730-760cc that is going to be a pain in the ass to tune and is just bad news. FIC injectors are flow tested and time and time again 650cc injectors flow 650cc + or - a few cc's.

Stay away from Densos please. I have had a set of 660cc injectors tested before where the flow ratings came back 686cc, 700cc, 725cc and 760cc. After that I chose to stay far away from them.

If you have any questions regarding fuel injectors, please feel free to contact me.

thanks,
Josh
[email protected]
www.fuelinjectorclinic.com
AIM: Josh at FIC
Phone: 401-569-8607

Also, we are a sponsoring vendor and are able to offer products for sale.

thank you,
josh
[email protected]
www.fuelinjectorclinic.com
Phone: 401-569-8607
AIM: Josh at FIC

Don't read this the wrong way, because I put FIC up there with FP and AMS and Magnus as far as great DSM vendors go, but these two posts from you look more like spam than anything else. You make a valid comment about Densos, but then both times go on to plug your non-Denso product. Do you guys not get good enough deals on Denso to sell them? Stealing too much business? I don't get it.

I have personally run Densos and FIC injectors. Both were perfectly fine. Maybe I had "luck" with the Densos, but am somehow doubting it.

edit: Please don't think just now I'm jumping on the bash bandwagon, because I am just now reading the posts above me. I hit reply once I started reading your second post.

 

[Josh_at_FIC]

I am not here to argue. We are a sponsoring vendor of this forum and are allowed to make commercial posts. That is what we are here for.

The posts I made about Denso injectors were from PERSONAL experience and nothing else..

This will be my last post in this thread. I did not mean to come off the wrong way.

thanks,
josh

 

[andymoraitis]

I don't see anything in Josh's posts that would be characterized as blatant self promotion. just information. I've had similar experiences using Denso injectors myself. As a matter of fact, we had a great deal of trouble getting them to dial in since the flow variation between injectors was so different. Denso makes quality products, however it's difficult to tune when each injector is flowing at a different rate. If every Denso 660cc injector flowed at 720cc, that would be easy enough to work with, however it's the variation between injectors that makes it impossible. While some people have seen great success with Denso's, I don't want my injector flow to be a hit or miss proposition. I have since switched to FIC's and when I had them flow tested, all of them were either even or within 1-2cc's of each other.

If you wanted real world information, there you have it.

Just my .02,

Andy

 

[alex99gst]

I don't see anything in Josh's posts that would be characterized as blatant self promotion. just information. I've had similar experiences using Denso injectors myself. As a matter of fact, we had a great deal of trouble getting them to dial in since the flow variation between injectors was so different. Denso makes quality products, however it's difficult to tune when each injector is flowing at a different rate. If every Denso 660cc injector flowed at 720cc, that would be easy enough to work with, however it's the variation between injectors that makes it impossible. While some people have seen great success with Denso's, I don't want my injector flow to be a hit or miss proposition. I have since switched to FIC's and when I had them flow tested, all of them were either even or within 1-2cc's of each other.

If you wanted real world information, there you have it.

Just my .02,

Andy

Thanks, that is what I was looking for. Hopefully I'll be getting some injectors purchased this week, but who knows.

 

[andymoraitis]

Thanks, that is what I was looking for. Hopefully I'll be getting some injectors purchased this week, but who knows.

Alex,

The sad thing for me is that if you look at some of my old posts, I highly recommended Denso injectors. Unfortunately, I can't do so anymore after seeing the results with my own set. They were so off I couldn't even sell them in good conscience.

Glad we could all help,

Andy