1g nt throttle body on 1g turbo

[91-gsx]

i basically wanted to know what was involved in swapping a 1g nt throttle body into my 1g dsm? i also was wondering how big the 1g nt thottle body is? the reason i am doing this swap is for a couple of reasons. first i wanted to stop having to buy or make new gaskets everytime the throttle body bolts come out with the elbow. second i wanted to remove everything that is used to control idle and the coolant hoses, basically remove wiring and crap from engine bay.

what i also wanted to know is if i remove all of those idle controllers and such, will the car run crappy or better? i would imagine the biss screw would affect idle more so now sense there is no electrical control of the idle except tps. it would be nice if i could get direction or a run down of the bad and good or any info at all. or if you know of a different throttle body that will flow more and still bolt on, or is easy to modify to bolt on?

thanks for the help

 

[BrokenTsi]

Direct bolt on, its the same. The opening is a little larger, but the plate itself is the same size. What do you think, think its gonna run better or worse removing the idle speed control motor etc?

 

[91-gsx]

Direct bolt on, its the same. The opening is a little larger, but the plate itself is the same size. What do you think, think its gonna run better or worse removing the idle speed control motor etc?

im not too sure how it would run that is why i am posting. but it would make things much simpler, and simpler is better on any car. less chance for air leaks, less tubing, and no hot coolant lines, which should make it harder to heatsoak the intake manifold, which should give you more power. if you ask me, a throttle position sensor is the only thing your really need because that is what most cars just run with.
later

 

[larsrya8]

Without the ISC your ECU won't be able to adjust the idle when the load is increased on the motor, whether it be lights, A/C, power steering, fans, etc. Running without it may work for some, but I definitely wouldn't think about it on a street car. I unplugged my ISC when it died last year and adjusted the idle with the BISS, but it was never right. It would idle lower with the lights on, and stumble when the radiator fan came on (with the lights). I didn't try the A/C because that probably would have killed the motor. If you adjust the idle with these loads on the motor, the car will idle higher without them (and you'll draw looks from other motorists). It's a lose-lose situation.

Sounds like something you'd do to a track only car, in which the possibly lumpy cams wouldn't benefit from the ISC anyway. And you probably wouldn't have A/C, power steering, or use the headlights.

You can remove some of the other stuff like the FIAV (since you are in a warm climate, and removing those coolant lines make life soo much easier), but leave the ISC. It's almost like having a non-functioning idle switch on a 1G. "Why does my car idle at 1600 RPMs?"

Prepare for the testimonies of those who "haven't run an ISC for years on the street with no problems." There are always a few who will support it... even though it's a bad idea.

P.S. Why must you remove your TB elbow so often? Drilling holes for water/alky/meth injection?

 

[hereitcomes]

Yes, you will definately want to run an ISC. If you thought a BISS problem was bad dont try removing your ISC. Thats what compensates and maintains the idle of the car..like the FIAV.

 

[91-gsx]

is there anybody who runs this type of setup on the street? i am really interested in the 1g throttle body because i want to eliminate the bottom half of the throttle body. but i also realized that i have a 2.5" intercooler kit that goes into my stock 60mm throttle body which is 2.36". this is like the air is hitting a wall before it enters the intake manifold. if you replace it with an non-turbo throttle body, you can use 2.5" couplers to attach the piping to the throttle body. this makes for a better transition and more power. so im kinda killing 2 bird with 1 stone if i buy the 1g nt throttle body, but im not sure about the idle control ill have though. the funny thing is that many cars just run a tps and some biss screw, not like 2 electrical things to adjust idle. and if those same 2 things go bad, they really mess with your idle as well...
thanks for the replies so far

 

[91-gsx]

wow... nobody has done this and could tell me if it really messed up their idle? i thought as long as you set the biss screw for small adjustments and have the tps set right, it would not go over or under the set rpm... like i said, many cars dont have all of this stuff, and they run well, like stock.
later

 

[sweet97]

No advantage with the NT TB or we would be using them! They taper down to the same or smaller than the turbo TB's anyways for size. www.o2induction.com can refurbish the TB and bore it to 63.5mm which is 2.5" biut you will not feel the differernce as I have it on my car as it needed freshening up anyways and Jon makes it look like new and sets everything as it should be. Then bores them to 2.5". Find other ways to make power. Set the idle by the book. Ground the wire by the battery like you are timing the car and ground the wire that www.vfaq.com shows under setting the BISS/idle. mark

 

[91-gsx]

why would it not make more power if i use the nt throttle body? by putting on the nt throttle body, you remove the step from 2.5" piping to the 1g throttle body which is 2.36"(60mm). its like air hits a little wall before it goes into the intake manifold. the other thing that interests me about the throttle body is that i wanted to eliminate the bottom half of it for previously mentioned reasons. no coolant line, less wiring, and less can go wrong and leak. i like things simple and stripped down to the basics.
later

 

[sweet97]

The NT TB tapers down to the same as a turbo TB or even smaller and the difference is so small it makes little to no difference. I have a 2.5" TB from www.o2induction.com they rework your TB to make it 2.5". Then there are always other TB's that fit and up to 3". mark www.vfaq.com or roadrace has more info on it.

 

[babyman0737]

I ran the 2.0 N/T throttle body on my 97 GST, it works well, strait bolt on except for the throttle body elbow situation. I have a 2.0 N/T throttle body for sale that was just cleaned up, new seals, and a new ISC. PM me if you're interested, I also have some ISC's that are in perfect condition (just tested).

 

[larsrya8]

I ran the 2.0 N/T throttle body on my 97 GST, it works well, strait bolt on except for the throttle body elbow situation. I have a 2.0 N/T throttle body for sale that was just cleaned up, new seals, and a new ISC. PM me if you're interested, I also have some ISC's that are in perfect condition (just tested).

So the 1G N/T TB's have an ISC?

 

[ChicksDigBoost]

why would it not make more power if i use the nt throttle body? by putting on the nt throttle body, you remove the step from 2.5" piping to the 1g throttle body which is 2.36"(60mm). its like air hits a little wall before it goes into the intake manifold. the other thing that interests me about the throttle body is that i wanted to eliminate the bottom half of it for previously mentioned reasons. no coolant line, less wiring, and less can go wrong and leak. i like things simple and stripped down to the basics.
later

Yes it is better for the air to taper down than to hit a little step. If you are considering getting it bored complety to 63mm, you can open the intake manifold to 63mm as well.

 

[91-gsx]

i heard that the nt throttle bodies are 65mm. does anybody know the exact sizes for different years?
later

 

[sweet97]

Tony I found that my #2 cylinder is cracked so i am parting my '93 AWD Talon and I have one of the ported turbo TB's, ported to 63.5mm and refinished with new seals. PM me if you are interested, good price. mark

 

[ChicksDigBoost]

i heard that the nt throttle bodies are 65mm. does anybody know the exact sizes for different years?
later

They are but they taper down to 60mm, but you can't get it bored to 65mm, unless you want to get rid of the idle circuit.

 

[timloomis]

where this tapering down coming from?i have all 1g years tb's in my garage.the n/t is 60mm and the turbo is 58 or so.the n/t doesnt "taper down" at all.its a straight through 60mm shot.

 

[nightspeed87]

where this tapering down coming from?i have all 1g years tb's in my garage.the n/t is 60mm and the turbo is 58 or so.the n/t doesnt "taper down" at all.its a straight through 60mm shot.

correct, the n/t throttle body is slightly bigger, therefore is better just because some of you havent heard about it doesnt mean its not good... Mavisky ( one of the sponser drivers for dsmtuners ) runs a 2.0 n/t throttle body, look in his profile... The small elbow on the stock 1g turbo tb is very restrictive, and no it isnt better to have the hole taper down on a turbo car because boost is being squeeze and pushed as it is... Maybe on an n/t its better to have larger intake piping taper down to a smaller size right before the tb ( a velocity effect, hondas guys tend to do it ) but isnt a good idea on a hardcore boosted engine... ( a restriction is a restriction no matter how you look at it, or else wed be running 3in downpipes with 2.5 inch cat backs...And no dont think thats a good thing, even though im sure theres plenty who will disagree.)
On my 6 bolt I rebuilt going in in 3 weeks its going to have a n/t 2.0 tb on it and I will just connect the upic like a regulard n/t intake arm would connect. I dont know any actual proven hp gains of using the n/t tb but even if it only gave 1hp over the stock turbo tb set up, its still better than nothing...
Im also doing away with my coolant line to the tb but leaving the isc and etc....

 

[Auto RS T]

I had a n/t throttle body on my 91 laser turbo. It is a bolt on except you have to use the n/t studs and shorter bolts to put it on. I also cut out the coolant section of the throttle body and blocked off the FIAV and of course had a custom intercooler pipe bent up, left the ISC in. Worked jut fine.

 

[nightspeed87]

notice anything different, or had any dyno figures or different air flow values on safc? ( not that it would be big enough to really suffice that much a difference. )

 

[Auto RS T]

Its been awhile (3 years) and I didn't have a logger back then , I ran the car on 15 psi w/walbro, boost controller, and had afc, just zeroed out though. None of my cars have ever made it to the dyno even though there is one 20mins down the road. I actually thought I did feel a gain in performance though, considering it was basically stock to begin with. That car went 14.3 at 95 mph and it was a fwd automatic 13b powered car! Sorry I am not much help to your question, but that is my experience with the n/t throttle body.

 

[sweet97]

NT TB's taper down to 52mm's and if you remove coolant lines be sure to do the mod correctly or the car will not idle correctly unless you live where it is very warm all of the time. mark

 

[Hal]

NT TB's taper down to 52mm's and if you remove coolant lines be sure to do the mod correctly or the car will not idle correctly unless you live where it is very warm all of the time. mark

Bodies from an N/T 2.0 are 60mm at the plate, units from 1.8's are closer to a 2g t/b in size.

You will see no performance gain going from a 1g turbo body to a 1g N/T body.

Both bodies use the same sensors and the same base casting. The N/T just has an additional casting for a pipe coupler.

Boring of any oem throttle body, in my opinion, isn't cost effective. Unless you are required by law or class rules to retain your oem unit, there are several low cost alternatives.

2g owners can bolt on a 1g throttle body, while 1g owners can switch to an oem Ford unit.

The loss of the ISC is a nit, in my opinion. The big hit is the loss of the FIAV because drivability will "suck" until the car warms up (depending on outside temps).

Hal

 

[4wd-Eclipse]

..... while 1g owners can switch to an oem Ford unit.

Hal

Hal ... which model and year of OEM Ford TB unit is good for 1G ? and what is the bore size?

 

[91-gsx]

Hal ... which model and year of OEM Ford TB unit is good for 1G ? and what is the bore size?

very interested in finding out as well, might get that instead of the n/t throttle body.