Stroked 2.5l Out Of A 2.0

[ResurrectedGs-T]

toying with the idea:

me and a friend did the mathmatical equation to find displacement if you you use the 2.4l crank and the stock 2nd gen bore, which came to a 2.54l!!!! now ideally would the crank match the bearings, journals etc....? or is it no way on mother earth this crank will work?
wiseman input wanted.....


and of course if it would work, who wouldnt want to bore the mutha out?!

 

[ResurrectedGs-T]

im guessing nobody knows??????

 

[insane147]

are you sure its 2.54 l? bore *bore* .786*stroke* no. of cylinders (do it in inches). the longest stroke ive seen is 104 mm by crower...with an 86mm bore...just about 2.4l, they have to clearance the block for that, and bor the cylinders 1mm....i believe it costs 3500 dollars or so....comes with everything.

 

[ResurrectedGs-T]

ummm im talking about a 2.4l crank with a 2nd gen stock bore..... and im sure its right. im confused on the formula you just put out.

 

[rdrkt]

I think your math is wrong somewhere. The most you are going to get using a 64 crank in a 63 block is 2.3L which is why EVERY kit advertises that displacement. I mean a 64 is only 2.4L I don’t see how you could another .14L out of it with a shorter deck.

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

Like rdrkt said, about the most your going to get out of a 4g63 is 2.3lt. Part of the 64's displacement comes from it's 6mm taller deck. And if you want to put a 100mm crank in a 63 you have to buy pistons that set the wrist pin 6mm higher.

 

[iamtall77]

i saw a guy who was putting a 63 head on a 64 block. you might think about that before youtry the crank swap, that is if it's possible. well anything is possible given enough $$$. there is a company that makes stroker cranks for the 4G63 if you're interested. not sure on the name, but it'll cost you about $3,000 for a rebuilt engine with a stroked crank. check it out.

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

You can put a 64 crank in a 63. It's not as expensive as you would think. The important thing is you need pistons with the wrist pin set 6mm's higher. Call BJ's Cylinder Head Serive or Forced Performance for info on the strokers. If you want info on the 4g64block/63head call Magnus Motorsports.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Intrusive97gsx
If you want info on the 4g64block/63head call Magnus Motorsports.

Word I have one sitting on the engine stand at home. I should be getting some results in the next 6 weeks.

 

[jdmawd]

actually i have been talking to friends of mine up in NY. that have gone 10.8 and 10.5 with 100% stock bottom ends. im sure the little wisemen or whatever wont agree. you're stock 6 bolt bottom end will support 450-500 wheel HP with good fuel maps. damn i wish i could get them to post here. anyway i would totally rethink building you're bottom end right now just my .02 what's better then advice from those who have actually put up huge numbers. . not trying to knock anyone, its just that the guys i know who have actually put up huge numbers disagree with 90% of the advice posted on sites like this. the basic atmosphere is if you cant get you're setup in the 11's with a stock motor with cams you are doing something seriously wrong. i got laughed at for even considering building my bottom until i get my car in to at least 11.5 country. i am by no mean's an expert but its kinda hard to argue with 10's on a stock bottom end and 10+ years of racing and building dsm's. no stand aloes, just simple gcc/vpc full Garrett 60 trim's supporting mods race gas, n20 and a ton of boost.
can it be that simple time to rethink what we are doing here boys and girls.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jdmawd
you're stock 6 bolt bottom end will support 450-500 wheel HP with good fuel maps.

First off it’s your not you are. God your grammar sucks. Next many of us have been saying that the stock bottom end will hold that power level for awhile now. The problem is that good fuel map. If you aren’t careful you can go through a few motors before you get it right. Especially if you are going to try and make big power on pump gas. The stock rod is strong enough to tolerate quite a bit under 400 hp but it isn’t too hard to spin or bend the rod with one mistake when you are making over 450 to the wheels.

Originally posted by jdmawd
im sure the little wisemen or whatever wont agree.

You are drunk off the haterade sober up

Originally posted by jdmawd
the basic atmosphere is if you cant get you're setup in the 11's with a stock motor with cams you are doing something seriously wrong.

Again its your not you are. Think first then post.

Guys like that make me laugh. They talk about how easy it was and how everyone should be able to do it like they were able to just turn the key and have an 11 second car or something. In reality if it was that “easy” everyone would be there. Anyone can play the “this is all you need” game. A lot of it is true. As always how well your car runs is entirely dependent on your tuning

 

[jdmawd]

I promised Chris, that I would not entertain mindless arguments. The simple fact is that as a community, we use people's time slips to base our mod goals and sometimes even turbo selection. well im just telling you what guys that have been down this road have suggested. take it anyway you like.

 

[ResurrectedGs-T]

Originally posted by rdrkt
I think your math is wrong somewhere. The most you are going to get using a 64 crank in a 63 block is 2.3L which is why EVERY kit advertises that displacement. I mean a 64 is only 2.4L I don’t see how you could another .14L out of it with a shorter deck.

i see what he did, he added the combustion chamber in by accident. it comes out to 2.28l w/out.... which in turn answers the theory (sort of)

thank you all dsm pimps

 

[Phil Sochor]

you can buy a 2.3 stroker kit any way so why wouldn't you just to that? look it up on this web site under parts.

 

[insane147]

for the kits that dont use the 64 block, your changing the rod ratio also and causing much more piston to wall friction/ heat because you stick with the shorter rod by moving the small end up 6mm. if your going this far for horsepower, i would use the 64 block and aftermarket rods to maintain the desired ratio, which is the way magnus motorsports does it i believe

 

[kengsx]

I agree with the above post. If you're going to do a 2.4L do it right and use a 6-bolt 4g64 block. Rod ratio is very important.

I'm having Bill Lowe at Showdown Motorsports in Ohio build my engine. They are taking their time sourcing the correct custom 8.5:1 Ross pistons and Eagle rods. There is every reason in the world NOT to rush this. I'm also taking a lower HP approach. I'll prove the engine first at 400-450WHP on a small 16G, and then introduce a big turbo. This is a daily driven car that wants more torque and faster turbo spool.

 

[insane147]

for my math equation i listed above that no one understood, here it is again

bore (times) bore (times) .786 (times) stroke (times) number of cylinders.

for crowers stroker kit its like this..

3.386 (in inches ONLY) * 3.386 *.786 * 4.094 * 4 = 147.5721

to convert to CC's multiply by 16.39

147.5721 = 2418.7067, or a hair over 2.4L, which is about 420 CC's more volume.

 

[kengsx]

I think its the 0.786 that's an unusual factor.

(Bore/2)^2*Pi*stroke*number of cylinders

The 4g64 is 86.5mm stock bore and 100mm stroke = 2.35 L

Add a 0.020" overbore gives 2.38 L <-- I'm doing this one
Add a 0.030" overbore gives 2.39 L
Add a 0.040" overbore gives 2.41 L
Add a 0.060" overbore gives 2.43 L

As you can see boring gains you little. I'd be more concerned about adequate wall thickness vs that extra 0.01 liters.

Either way the 4g64 gives you 0.1 L more displacement than the stroker kit and its safer. At least we think its safe until proven otherwise.

 

[HighPsi91]

Originally posted by Intrusive97gsx
Like rdrkt said, about the most your going to get out of a 4g63 is 2.3lt. Part of the 64's displacement comes from it's 6mm taller deck. And if you want to put a 100mm crank in a 63 you have to buy pistons that set the wrist pin 6mm higher.

No, the deck height has nothing to to with displacement. Displacement is a function of bore and stroke only... nothing else. Its true if you put a 64 crank in a 63 block then you will have to rid yourself of 6mm somewhere, either in the pistons or rods.

This little wiseman completely agrees that you dont need a built bottom end or a 2.3liter to run 10's. I do completely support the idea that a stroker or 4g64 would make a killer pump gas street motor. If you are after alot of power in a full weight vehicle on pump gas its definitely the way to go. But hey, the original poster never even mentioned going 10's, 11's, or even 15's for that matter. They had a simple tech question. Isnt it great to know guys with fast cars! If you park your car next to theirs yours may actually get faster through osmosis.

 

[jdmawd]

If you park your car next to theirs yours may actually get faster through osmosis.

Man that would be awesome wouldn't it? However somewhat unrealistic. taking advice, and gathering knowledge. from those who have successfully,done things you are trying to accomplish. I don't think is a bad idea.

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

Originally posted by HighPsi91


No, the deck height has nothing to to with displacement. Displacement is a function of bore and stroke only... nothing else. Its true if you put a 64 crank in a 63 block then you will have to rid yourself of 6mm somewhere, either in the pistons or rods.

Well I did completely mess that one up. Thanks for setting things straight. Sorry for implying that the actual displacement was from the deck height, I meant that you need the extra 6mm’s for the crank to work. The question at hand was will a 100mm crank fit in a 4G63. I was trying to say that it’s impossible for the 100mm crank to work in a 4g63 with stock internals because the deck is shorter. You’ll need special rods or pistons.

 

[HighPsi91]

Originally posted by jdmawd


Man that would be awesome wouldn't it? However somewhat unrealistic. taking advice, and gathering knowledge. from those who have successfully,done things you are trying to accomplish. I don't think is a bad idea.

Your right its absolutely not a bad idea... in fact one of the best methods to learning the right ways. However using it as a source of rudeness in a thread that didnt deserve it in the first place just isnt cool.

 

[Axis187]

that was a really interesting post. What are the other modifications that you should do when you enlarge the displacement of the engine. If I said motor wouldnt that be incorrect?

 

[kengsx]

Transmission:
- strengthen the center diff (4 spider gear) due to extra torque.
- other stronger parts are not a bad idea
- 25% taller 5th gear is perfect for this displacement and will pay for itself.

Engine Management:
- stock ECU tables might not cut it at higher revs due to the higher airflow.
- fuel injectors.

Turbo:
- the idea of a 16G spooling full boost at 1000rpms sooner is great for a street driven car.
- some might like a 20G or larger making full boost at 3000rpm.

Engine:
- things are different like the timing belt length, head gasket, main and rod bearings...
- have a good engine builder determine the right pistons, rods, cam degree, etc.

Ken Young

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

Originally posted by kengsx


Engine:
- things are different like the timing belt length, head gasket, main and rod bearings...
- have a good engine builder determine the right pistons, rods, cam degree, etc.

Ken Young

This depends on if it's a 63 stroker or a 4g63/64 hybrid. A 4g63 stroker should use the same timing belt and headgasket.