Pros/Cons: 19C VS Super 20G

[mrfloppy]

I was wondering what are some of the pros and cons of a 19C?
Hahn's lowest (there are 3 of them) super 20G?

I hear the 19C is about the same size as the 20G and spools like a 16G, is this true? If so then why do so many not go with this turbo?
I
have been in a GST with a the lowest Super 20G. After 4300K - 4500K Revs.... the engine is screaming... and the sudden G force throwing me clear into the back of the seat. What a rocket launcher!!

well any help on the whole 19c thing would be great.

O one more general question. Why are there letters after the #'s? Hell what do the #'s mean?? All I know is the bigger the #.... the bigger the turbo. Are they all Mitsu turbos?

9c, 13b,14b,16G,18G, 19C,20G,25G, etc... and many more I know I forgot.

Well any and all help is appricated!
Erik

 

[GunnerTSi]

The nature of the equal sized fins on the 19c compressor wheel makes it perform poorly when it comes to supporting high boost levels. It's great in the 17-21psi range, but above that it begins to falter. It's also prone to surge a bit. A standard 20g will outperform the Super20g anyday of the week in the hands of your average DSM tuner.

 

[HyperGSX]

Originally posted by GunnerTSi
A standard 20g will outperform the Super20g anyday of the week in the hands of your average DSM tuner.

Care to expand on this a little further?

 

[TRBOTSI]

Why are you asking about two turbos that haven't been proven? Well thay have been proven, proven to suck...If I were you I'd stick to a regular 20G and make your buddies S20G'ed gst look like a Honda.

 

[BatmanGSX]

You couldn't give me either turbo.

 

[mrfloppy]

Originally posted by TRBOTSI
Why are you asking about two turbos that haven't been proven? Well thay have been proven, proven to suck...If I were you I'd stick to a regular 20G and make your buddies S20G'ed gst look like a Honda.

Hahns S20G has been proven to hit low 11's! Whats the difference between a reguler 20G and a S20G? Do you have something against Hahn?

Erik

 

[HyperGSX]

Why the hatred of the HRC S20G?

 

[TRBOTSI]

WHy would anyone buy a S20G with a junk 10cm exhaust housing when you can get a Buschur 20G that has gone 10's...IMO a regular 20G has just proven itself far and beyond any S20G. I think most of this board agrees. Ask anyone on this board who knows anything about DSM's and they'll say the same thing I'm saying. All the newbies and 16 year olds think they can throw on the S20G and run an 11.

 

[got traction?]

Proven to run 11's? Why because they say it does?

 

[mrfloppy]

Originally posted by got traction?
Proven to run 11's? Why because they say it does?

no they actually have... them and buschur are always at it... buschur's 20G has hit 10.48. Supporting mods vary, but this dual and bragging rights have been going on for almost a year. Anyone that is a HRC fans say ( and is true ) that buschur has more mods on there car that ran the 10.48. Buschur fans say that the HRC S20 turbo is just a dog to begin with.

Bla bla bla. Obviously if you own one or the other you defend it. Who really knows... but its been proven that it can dive into the low 11's. As for supporting mods and internal uprgrades.... I dunno. Maybe thats something worth researching, but my time is better spent working on my car. Hell I still have the T25... so even a BIG 28 looks good to me right now at this point in the game!


Erik

 

[mrfloppy]

Originally posted by TRBOTSI
All the newbies and 16 year olds think they can throw on the S20G and run an 11.

i'm 17 not 16.... and i don't think you can just slap it on. Turbos uprgrades are BIG upgrades. i want to work all around my turbo before i uprgrade.... even get a little of the suspension work done. do a little fine tuning here and there, maybe build the tranny a little. we all know mitsubishi doesn't make that great of a tranny. hell ask the 3SI guys... they will tell ya!

ether way i was just asking a question about the 19c because I was hearing mixed remarks about it... another wards most ether liked it or didn't like it.

Still what is the difference between a reg 20g and S20g?

 

[candela]

The main difference is in the turbine housing. The super20g IMO is crap, as is any super or killer turbo. The hrc turbos have 10cm turbine housings, which ten to suck nutts in the eyes of most. Lag is very apparent, and for some reason so is reliability with the hrc turbos. There have been a lot of people that have had them brake for various reasons. The average tdo5 or tdo6 20g 7cm housing, will get full boost just a few hundred rpm's later than a 16g. n I have tnbo experience with framk turbos, but IMO, Id stock with what has been proven and is popular, because its for a reason. if you want 20g like power, get a 20g. If you want better spool try a 16g. I love my big16g very much. I get full boost by 3200 and run consistent 12.7's

 

[NJGSX96]

19C is the almost the equivalent to the 16G. I would choose a 16G over it though. The sweet spot for a 19C is 19psi. Over that and it just blows. A decent street turbo, but why settle when the 16G is a better turbo. Identical setups, my friend who has a 19C and I had a 16G (I have since upgraded to the 20G), my car would win every time.

Super turbos are no good, in my opinion. They put the lag monster housing on them, 10CM or whatever it is. I have 2 friends who owned "Super" turbos. One had the Super 16G and the other the Super 20G. The guy with the super 20G was running mid 12s. The other guy with the super 16G was running high 12s/low 13s. All they did was convert their turbos into a regular 16G and a regular 20G and instantly noticed a difference. The 16G now ran 12.4s while the 20G dropping into the upper 11s. Best "mod" they ever did.

take all this as you will. Everyone will ell you something different. Just givin you the experiences I know and have seen with the turbos.

 

[mrfloppy]

"Super turbos are no good, in my opinion. They put the lag monster housing on them, 10CM or whatever it is. I have 2 friends who owned "Super" turbos. One had the Super 16G and the other the Super 20G. The guy with the super 20G was running mid 12s. The other guy with the super 16G was running high 12s/low 13s. All they did was convert their turbos into a regular 16G and a regular 20G and instantly noticed a difference. The 16G now ran 12.4s while the 20G dropping into the upper 11s. Best "mod" they ever did."

well f*ck clipping them...... but all i know is that the S20G I was in was ported and was on a GST that ran 11.8. He had a DSM Link and Limited Slip and a few other MAJOR mods to push him down the 1/4th but for the most part i was stoked by this turbo. The 10CM would probably be better for higher revs though.

 

[LaserRST]

Isnt the "supers" and the Franks all race... like the LR series. This is good info by the way What kinda a/r's do they have. Im just a lil worried bout my hybrid .63 ar exhaust with an "O" trim stuffed in there. I have a feeling its ok cuz the housing is still small enough to spool, but the turbine trim is big... bigger than a stage 3. Not in the engine yet, cuz the supporting mods are expensive and Im puttin a kit together. If any one has anything to share about that kinda T3 trim lemme know.

 

[BatmanGSX]

A lot of people switched the 8cm housings on their Reds out for 7cm housings. If an 8cm housing is too laggy for a car that has a Red imagine how laggy a 10cm housing will be.

The S20G is crap. Crap, crap, crap, crap, crap, crap.

Get it out of your heads.

 

[97GSTAT]

LMFAO!!!! Ok first off people that don't even the turboes that they bad mouth are just throwing out rumors. I have a S16G with th dreaded 10cm housing, an I hit lag just as fast as my friends big 16G. So where the #@%#@%#@%#@% is it laggy? Oh and I pull damn near 20G traps out of my S16G, so it pulls harder then the big 16G. And I have a friend witha S20G on a GSX that runs consistent 12.5's on pump gas(91) and 22psi, spinning through first. He plans on pulling 11's with more boost and 110 gas. Now I don't have any PERSONAL experience from any of the Frank turboes, so I'm not commenting on it. Just like some people shouldn't be on others.

 

[candela]

.... I was just waiting for 97gstAT to say something, I knew he would. He always defend the hrc turbos...:laugh:

 

[BatmanGSX]

Huge turbine housings are totally rad if you don't have to lift to shift (Auto?).

There is no way you will convince me that a S16G under the same conditions will have the same lag as a Big16G with a 7cm housing. It's just not possible, give it up. Of course if conditions are different then you aren't making a very good comparison. Having a baby compressor section with a big turbine section is almost as foolish as the opposite.

 

[97GSTAT]

Yes I defend the HRC turbos, because around here they are the fastest, thus proven in my eyes. Oh my car being an auto had more lag to begin with, then a manual in stock form. Hey I don't have anything against any certain turbo like some people. And I agree that different situations produce different results. But I'm also not trying to convince you anything, because I know from PERSONAL experience. And for the money in my situation the HRC setup I have was the best. But to each is his own.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by 97GSTAT
Hey I don't have anything against any certain turbo like some people.

I am against crap.

 

[HighPsi91]

You really have to take into consideration what turbine wheel is being used. The td05h wheel is too small to support serious power no matter what size housing its in. Once you step up to the proper sized td06 or td06h wheel spoolup will be very poor in a 10cm housing. I agree it does look good on paper though. Its hard to deny the facts... 7cm housings have gone 9's without nitrous. With the right turbine wheel a 7cm housing can support serious power. One thing I dont like is how Hahn claims that their compressor efficiency is so much better. I dont quite understand how their 20g wheel is so much more efficient than everybody elses 20g wheel. Something doesnt add up there.

As far as the super16g goes... a 16g wheel doesnt flow enough air to even warrant such a large turbine side. The 25G wheel is the only one that even deserves a 10cm housing. If we all had 2.4liter+ motors it would be a different story. But in the world of 2.0 liters it just looks like poor turbo engineering.

 

[GSTwkd]

Here we go again on the "Super turbos" bashings. I have a Super16G and I cant complain about it. I thought the reason behind the big 10cm housing was to eliminate boost creep and give you a better top-end. Which is exactly what I feel my car has benefited. I hold 20psi from about 3700rpms to redline rock solid(now). I'm FWD and think that lag is overrated. Plus once I'm on it there's NO LAG between shifts. If I was awd than maybe I would care about lag. GSX4life had a S20g and he seemed to like it.
Anyways, I plan on running it soon at the track and the dyno so we'll see what she's got

 

[Turbo]

Remember also that the "Super 20G " uses Syclone / Typhoon Cartridge that comes as a TD06 17c 8cm2. Therefore requires a
spacer for installation .

 

[candela]

GSTwkd: my big16g holds 20psi from about 3300rpm to redline no problem... My friend had a super16g, and lag was very apparent in direct relation to mine, especially in between shifts. we both had 92 awd's with very similar mods. His had some head wrk and felt a litlle stronger on the top end, but that is cause my motor was never opened up and had 140k on it. The supe16g isnt a horrible turbo, its just that theyve been known for breaking and lagging more so that a standard 16 or big 16...