50 trim takes a dump?

[CMiuc12s]

Well I have been experiencing some thing weird with the car for a week now. I have been feeling a slight hesitation when it builds boost. and at ideal, it is burning oil. after driving normal to and from work, I park and pop the hood and see execive smoke coming from where the shaft housing and the turbine housing meets. I also have noticed that there is a brownish tar on the shaft housing. I took a couple of pics to show. I also run a compression check on the engine and I got 165,165,166,168. (4,3,2,1) I don't know, talked to Nate at SBR, and explained what's going on and the history of this turbo. Bought in Aug. 2004. He said that they'd have to look at it. Well from the pics and discription, what do you all think? :thumbdown

 

[fp-green-95tsi]

Looks like your missing some bolts holding the cartridge to the exhaust housing. That could be an issue

 

[pboglio]

No CHRA water cooling? Sounds like oil coke to me.

 

[CMiuc12s]

Yes it is. I noticed it after I posted the pics and went out and checked it out. It is missing two bolts holding the cartrige the the housing. I am going to find two new bolts and install them and see if that solves anything. if not then I'll just pull the turbo and send it back to SBR and PTE. I don't recall lossing them at any time. Maybe they just wasn't there when I bought the car a month a go.

 

[CMiuc12s]

No pboglio, that is how alot of turbos are made now a days. I know that it is getting oil cause it is burning out the exhaust, .

 

[ikickuintheball]

How bad is it to have one of the bolts missing on the turbine side? When I isntalled mine, I noticed it was missing (I bought it used).

 

[pboglio]

Brown stuff on the turbine shaft sounds like oil coke, IMHO. That doesn't exactly leave a lot of room for actual oil to create a hydrodynamic film for lubricating, cooling, or resisting radial loads. I agree, not having those 2 bolts bolted onto the CHRA is inexcuseable. Non-watercooled CHRAs are a downgrade, major downgrade, that is a 20 year step backwards. Again, sorry to about the turbo. I'm sure SBR will do the right thing and warranty it.

 

[97TSIAWD]

Do you guys think it could be an oil seal in the turbo? I would also just to be safe check the intercooler pipes for oil. I had a seal leak on my TTA and it blew oil all in the intercooler, the price to rebuild it actually out-weighed the cost of the original turbo which sucked. It would also explain the smoke out the back and the studder in building boost.

 

[fp-green-95tsi]

If it was me, i'd pull off the intake pipe and check the shaft play of the turbo. PTE's haven't been kind to my friends.

 

[CMiuc12s]

Well I did pull off the intake pipe and checked the shaft play. Barely a hair front to back and alittle up and down. As far as oil in the intake and piping, no oil. Thank god. I called SBR and just decided to order a 50 trim rebuild kit for their 50 trim turbo for $114. I can do the rebuild myself, it's easy. BTW, it is a SBR 50 trim.

 

[Stapl3]

BTW, it is a SBR 50 trim.

An SBR turbo? Shocking.

If they sent it to you like that without bolts and such, why are you paying over 100 dollars to fix it?

 

[CMiuc12s]

Well, I was looking at pics of the car from before I bought it and it had the bolts. They must have worked them selves out. I am going to use bolts that I can safty wire. A little over kill, I know, but its for peace of mind, ya know.
Well, this is what happen so far that I can tell from the guy before me. He had installed the turbo and oil return line. He made the return line too long and it kinked. Causing it to back up pressure in the shaft housing. It was smokin alittle and he found the problem and fixed it. It stopped smoking and he thought that the problem was solved. It did leak out alittle tar from where the housing and cartrige meets.
So I have inherited his mistake.

 

[Stapl3]

Didn't realize it was used.

Best of luck.

 

[heavyD]

Well, I was looking at pics of the car from before I bought it and it had the bolts. They must have worked them selves out. I am going to use bolts that I can safty wire. A little over kill, I know, but its for peace of mind, ya know.

Loctite Blue threadlocker.

 

[Burnett03]

my PTE turbo looks the same way. Still havnt figured out the cause yet but im trying various things right now, new drain line, etc. I'm hoping i dont have to send the darn thing back to PTE. A few others have had this problem, what drain line do you use? What feed line and how much pressure to it?

 

[espinelli]

Not having a water cooled CHRA is a downgrad in my book and as pboglio stated. The only benefit is that you don't have to mess with water lines, so its nice for lazy people :laugh: . If you look at the GT30R's or any of Garretts newer turbos for that matter you'll notice that they are all watercooled.

If your building a street car, get yourself a watercooled CHRA for more durability.

With regards to the 50trim problem, I think the issue may have been caused by too much oil pressure, especially if your seals are leaking oil. Good luck with that.

 

[yo2001]

A ball bearing turbo without water cooled CHRA, you'll be watching glowing ball bearings flying through your hood.

As for the 50 trim, You probably got too much clearance on the piston ring (rear seal) to be able to oil from leaking.

 

[dsmrunaway1]

whats the big deal with turbos that aren't watercooled ?? if u supply the oil the "right way" from the filter housing there should be no problems... downgrade or not...the scm61 and other non water cooled turbos put down 400whp+ on pump gas....and are a great price 2....ask nate about his 513whp on a 60-1 internally gated non watercooled turbo....pretty insane i think....jus get the proper oil feed lines and drain tubes and there should be no probs...sbr g series oil feed line and the pushlock style drain tube worked out great for me and look awesome...spend the extra money so there is no more probs down the road...... .

 

[espinelli]

Those are just my views and thoughts. Personally, any time I have a choice to go with a water cooled CHRA I'd go for it. You can do whatever you want. IMHO for a street app, if I had a choice between oil only or water and oil cooled. I'd go with oil/water for extra insurance. There are 60-1, TSO4, T61, T66 etc that have water/oil cooled CHRAs.

As you said, oil alone works well to when properly setup. But why not add some water cooling for extra insurance?

 

[DSMJim]

The way turbochargers are designed today using 360deg thrust bearings and so on, you do not need water cooling on a non ball bearing turbocharger. Most companies still make a few water cooled non-ball bearing turbos just to satisfy people who "know better" than the turbo manufacturer does.

On a full ball bearing turbocharger you need to have it watercooled to protect the bearings as oil only cooling is simply not enough. It's not because it keeps the air from the turbo cooler or because they are more expensive etc, it's only because the bearings can not take the heat. A standard thrust bearing can take the heat so water cooling is not necessary. The air temp exiting the turbocharger on the same turbo oil only vs. water/oil is the same.

 

[Tallen]

Be SURE to scribe a line acrss the nut, compressor wheel, and shaft so you can put it back together exactly how it was. Otherwise it'll be unbalanced and die in a few thousand. It looks like the turbine piston ring took a shit on you! The wheel shroud may have slightly thrown the turbine out of alignment causing unusual wear on the piston ring/rear bearing. That is of course if the turbine housing was cocked off by those missing bolts...tisk tisk...but what do I know anyway!

As far as this oil cooling nonsense, get some real world knowledge then start making your wrongful assumptions. As Jim stated, oil cooling is just fine for non-BB turbos, especially with today's oil. Please don't make these foolish guesses without backing.

 

[90GSTman]

If you're going to use a non-water cooled turbo don't just think about the reliability of your turbo, but the reliability of you engine. The additional heat put into only four quarts of oil is going to be substantial and will affect everything else unless you compinsate for it. Like buying a big oil cooler.

It's my opinion that a non-water cooled CHRA is a downgrade but can be compinsated for with a BIG oil cooler. Would i go that rought? Probably not.

Back to the question. The smoke coming from between the CHRA and the Turbine housing is, from the looks of the photos, a combination of exhaust and burnt oil. The exhaust smoke will go away once you put the two missing bolts back in. The oil smoke will go away once you fix the leak that is spilling oil onto the CHRA. Check the oil feed line and the drain line. Clean the whole thing off with degreaser and a toothbrush first. That way you can see where the leak is originating from.

 

[espinelli]

Guys I NEVER implied that oil cooled turbo's were bad turbos, nor that they can't make big power and I wasn't making a big deal out of any of this.

Once again the point I was trying to get across is that having a water cooled CHRA is added insurance IMHO. I never even mentioned anything about a SCM61, I think its a great turbo. If I was in the market for a SCM61 and had a choice to have it water cooled, I'd do it.

 

[pboglio]

A few questions for those with non-water cooled turbos. What mileage do you guys have on your turbos, not including rebuilds? Is this street/drag strip or roadcourse/autox duty? Anybody running aftermarket oil coolers with their non-water cooled turbo? Synthetic or non-synthetic engine oil? Just curious.

 

[DSMJim]

A few questions for those with non-water cooled turbos. What mileage do you guys have on your turbos, not including rebuilds? Is this street/drag strip or roadcourse/autox duty? Anybody running aftermarket oil coolers with their non-water cooled turbo? Synthetic or non-synthetic engine oil? Just curious.

It doesn't make any differece. They last just as long as watercooled. You might as well ask that question of all type turbochargers because their life expectancy is exactly the same regards of the type of CHRA.

It is not insurance. Turbo companies ONLY make water/oil non ball bearing turbochargers for guys who are argueing they are better with no proof. They are not, the proof is that they don't make them like that anymore unless it's ball-bearing and trust me the day will come when they are oil only as well as technology improves. It has a very negligable effect on the temp of the engines oil as it comes from the head and drops right into the pan right away anyway which is a cooling point for your oil. The size of your feed line -3 or -4 restricts the amount of oil to such a small amount that there is literally so little going through that there is little difference in the overall temp of all your oil.

This line of discussion is retarded. Oil only is no different than OLD water/oil turbo's just easier to install because of better technology. Just for insurance why not keep a manual starting crank like the ford model-T had on it? Your starter could fail and you may just need that extra insurance to start it up 1920's style.