Ordered a head and was suprised to find.

[SmokeyGST]

That the head i ordered from BJs the intake side seemed like a smaller opening than the head that was on my car. (A 92 Gs-t btw) Sure enough it was nearly half an inch smaller as an opening, so giving the head the benefit of the doubt I check the intake plenum (stock) and its opening mates up to the one i have on my car. Now i am having serious doubts about the head i was sent. If someone could please tell me the dimensions of the intake side of the head and let me know what exactly i have. I am worried i was sent a N/A head or possibly a 2g head.

 

[CatchMe]

2G ports are about a half inch smaller than 1G ports. Sounds like they sent you a 2G head, send it back! :thumbdown

 

[SmokeyGST]

Well another question i know that after a certain build date in 92 the 4g63 was considered a 7 bolt and i know the 2g are 7bolt now did the engine change with the body style? or did the body stle change and kept the same engine?

 

[Staytuned]

I don't have the measurements but here is a 1g gasket on a 2g head.

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[BoostedTalonTS]

That is a 2G head, no doubt about it...

Even if you did have a 1G 7 bolt engine, the head will still be the one with the larger intake runners... Your best bet is to go by the cating number in the head. Check out this thread for more info on the casting numbers on the heads themselves:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154427

Better yet, just have BJ send you one with matching casting head numbers.

 

[CatchMe]

That is a 2G head, no doubt about it...

Even if you did have a 1G 7 bolt engine, the head will still be the one with the larger intake runners... Your best bet is to go by the cating number in the head. Check out this thread for more info on the casting numbers on the heads themselves:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154427

Better yet, just have BJ send you one with matching casting head numbers.

2G for sure

 

[waiting2bl33d]

2G ports are about a half inch smaller than 1G ports. Sounds like they sent you a 2G head, send it back! :thumbdown

agree correct me if i'm wrong but when they body style changed is when they changed the engines head and stuff even though it was changed mid-late 92 to a 7-bolt they redesigned the head i suppose it would be late 94 so that it would be put into the new 2g 95

 

[SmokeyGST]

That is a 2G head, no doubt about it...

Even if you did have a 1G 7 bolt engine, the head will still be the one with the larger intake runners... Your best bet is to go by the cating number in the head. Check out this thread for more info on the casting numbers on the heads themselves:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154427

Better yet, just have BJ send you one with matching casting head numbers.

I checked the numbers on my head. I came up with 2.0L M 10 but didn't see that in any of those links. what one should i ask for?

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

I checked the numbers on my head. I came up with 2.0L M 10 but didn't see that in any of those links. what one should i ask for?

Ask for a head that matched the OE head's casting numbers for your original engine! If you don't have that info, then determine if you have a 6 or 7 bolt bottom end (so you will know what size of head bolts/studs you will need to use). This will help, if you don't know already:
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine.html
...That will aid you in making the right decision in terms of finding the correct head for your engine. -Let us all know what you got, and we'll go from there.


As for the 6/7 bolt heads, all of the 1G DSMs had the larger intake port heads, regardless if they were 6 or 7 bolt bottom ends. (I have a 94 7 bolt) But generally, the 6 bolt blocks ended around May '92, (check your production date) so in theory, anything made after that got a 7 bolt with the same style head as the 6 bolt...

Although they have small differences, (like exhaust manifold stud sizing = like a 2G with 10mm outer exh man studs, coolant passage redesign & larger diameter, and smalled head stud diameter holes = also like a 2G that got 11mm head studs vs the 1G 6 bolt's 12mm bolts... If you have a early head going on a later motor, then the stud holes in the head will be larger. Likewise, use a later-made head on an early block and you will need to open up the head's stud holes to accomodate the larger 12mm head studs/bolts) they are ALMOST completely interchangable.

Having gone through this myself, I understand your frustration

StayTuned:
I guess that the 1G intake I sold you isn't going to work too well with that head in your pic, huh?

 

[heavyD]

DSM Jim has been saying that the 2G head is actually superior to the 1G because the intake angle path is straighter on the 2G and if ported correctly will flow better than the 1G. Something to look into if you don't want to send it back.

 

[kgtalon95]

I agree with dsmjim, there is a thread on this called 1g head numbers, long.......Because the air in the 2g head doesn't have to go over a hump like in the 1g, a ported 2g will have better velocity than a 1g. As far as hp numbers I can't even guess. I do know that alot of shops are starting to use the 2g head in race build ups. It is still a debate, but if I were you, I'd keep the 2g head and have it port matched to the 1g mani and whatever needs to be done to the studs. I think you'll be pleasantly suprised

 

[unior]

DSM Jim has been saying that the 2G head is actually superior to the 1G because the intake angle path is straighter on the 2G and if ported correctly will flow better than the 1G. Something to look into if you don't want to send it back.

yeah but to flow that much you need to port it so far it would cost too much money

send the bi*** back

 

[JessesTalon]

DSM Jim has been saying that the 2G head is actually superior to the 1G because the intake angle path is straighter on the 2G and if ported correctly will flow better than the 1G. Something to look into if you don't want to send it back.

Yes That is true, Stock vs Stock I believe the 1g flows a bit more... but modded the 2g will surpass the 1g head flow by quite a bit.

 

[unior]

Yes That is true, Stock vs Stock I believe the 1g flows a bit more... but modded the 2g will surpass the 1g head flow by quite a bit.

i dunno i was always under the impression that to get a 2g head to flow that much it would cost more money than getting the same flow out of less porting with a 1g head

 

[SmokeyGST]

Well this rebuild is not for performance sake. I was just gonna replace valve guides, but then figured when i get in there i would find a bunch of other problems, and would just be cheaper to get a rebuilt head. I will be sending the 2g back, and BJ said he sent the 1g off tonite so hopefully friday it will be here.

 

[unior]

Well this rebuild is not for performance sake. I was just gonna replace valve guides, but then figured when i get in there i would find a bunch of other problems, and would just be cheaper to get a rebuilt head. I will be sending the 2g back, and BJ said he sent the 1g off tonite so hopefully friday it will be here.

that should be the easier way out - make em send you the right shiat!

 

[SmokeyGST]

Even if a 2g head is better i would still need the 2g intake since the 1g intake would create a giant wall, i am sure that would mess with the velocity.

 

[gsxtacy]

I don't want to be spreading incorrect information, but recently I read a thread saying that the true downside to using 2G head for power is the intake manifold. The 2G intake has a smaller plenum and the 1G intake has a larger plenum, and a 60mm throttle body. To use the 1G intake on a 2G head, I think it would be beneficial to epoxy the lower part of the 1G intake manifold runner to the same size as the ported/stock intake port. In doing this you would be increasing Volumetric Effecientcy(*sp) by adding more plenum volume, and keeping the intake "velocity" where it should be to achieve best results with a 2G head.

Someone can better explain this, Because I understand the idea I just cannot explain it as clearly.

gsxtacy

 

[Bostedquest]

I don't want to be spreading incorrect information, but recently I read a thread saying that the true downside to using 2G head for power is the intake manifold. The 2G intake has a smaller plenum and the 1G intake has a larger plenum, and a 60mm throttle body. To use the 1G intake on a 2G head, I think it would be beneficial to epoxy the lower part of the 1G intake manifold runner to the same size as the ported/stock intake port. In doing this you would be increasing Volumetric Effecientcy(*sp) by adding more plenum volume, and keeping the intake "velocity" where it should be to achieve best results with a 2G head.

Someone can better explain this, Because I understand the idea I just cannot explain it as clearly.

gsxtacy

Your not really talking about Ve, your comparing the two physical volumes.
The 1G has more overall volume, both in runner and plenium size. If either is too small, it can hender velocity flow rates because there is not enough "air" there to satisfy the engine at a given point.

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

Yes That is true, Stock vs Stock I believe the 1g flows a bit more... but modded the 2g will surpass the 1g head flow by quite a bit.

I could see the 2g head being better for a N/A car but port velocity isn't much of an issue on a turbo car. Now you can raise the runner and then match the intake port to the 1g intake manifold gasket but the cost wouldn't be worth it for the majority of people. Then you'd run into exhaust flow problems because you're exhaust port would probably only flow around 80% of the intake port. So for the most part it's best to go with a ported 1g head. There's less material to remove and on a good ported head the exhaust port could flow around 90% of the intake port.

Smokey GST,
BJ probably made a honest mistake and most likely sent you the wrong head. Give him a call as I'm sure he'll be able to straighten things out.

 

[unior]

To use the 1G intake on a 2G head, I think it would be beneficial to epoxy the lower part of the 1G intake manifold runner to the same size as the ported/stock intake port.

whaaa sure you as hell would never see me putting something like that in my intake - what happens when a piece of epoxy gets old, hard, cracks, flys through your motor, screws up valves, rings, turbos, etc