What are the specs (A/R) of the FPGreen?

[goofynick6]

Ok,
I've been searching for hours about 50 trim turbos and have learned lots, but I still have questions. I am kinda old-school and like sizing up a turbo based on its actual specs.

SO, I am curious if anyone knows the specs on the FPgreen turbo, like the a/r of the turbine housing, etc.

Same thing for the AGP49S...I think this turbo is the way to go. I just want to know if people are making the 20psi by 3700-3900 rpms with the .63 exhaust housing or .48, and what kind of power they're making with each. I love fast response(don't we all?), but I want to know the potential with each housing and people's experiences.

Thanks!

Nick

 

[DannyD]

The size of the turbine housing is your choice: 7cm2 or 8cm2. It is a Mitsubishi turbine housing so they use this method of the turbine housing as opposed to the a/r. Obviously, the 7cm2 housing will be the faster spooling of the two, while the 8cm2 will offer more power.

You can find out more about the Green turbo here:

Forced Performance

 

[goofynick6]

Yeah, I've been to the site and read that part, but I didn't know how the 7cm and 8cm compared. Need someone to do some measurements and figure out the a/r using the 7cm to figure it out using this diagram.

http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/glossary/ar_ratio.gif

Nick

 

[Keaka26]

actually, in rough comparison, from what I understand, 7cm2 mitsu housing is close to a .48 AR for a garrett.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Mitsubishi does not seem to use seperate designations for different size turbine wheels, other than the TD04, TD04H, TE04, TD05H, etc., designation. The "6cm2" in the model name is similar to the A/R ratio used by other manufacturers. The "A" in an A/R ratio is the cross-sectional area of the smallest intake passage in the turbine housing before the passage spreads around the circumferential volute that leads to the turbine wheel. The "R" in the ratio is the distance from the center of the "A" to the center of the turbine wheel. The MHI "6cm2" designation is just the "A" in the A/R ratio, that is, it is just the cross-sectional area. Like A/R, the smaller the size of the "cm2" number, the faster the exhaust gases will discharge onto the turbine wheel, and so the faster the spool up will be (less "lag"). The size of the "cm2" number or the A/R ratio also determines the amount of exhaust gas backpressure and, thus, reversion into the combustion chamber. A larger "cm2" number (or larger A/R) means less backpressure at high exhaust flow. Extreme Turbo says that the TD05H-7cm2 housing is equivalent to a 0.50 A/R. The Rocky Mountain DSM turbo guide presents the following conversion between Mitsubishi's "cm2" number and the standard A/R.
##6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
##7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
##8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R
##9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R

 

[goofynick6]

Thanks for the excellent post! My diagram I posted would go along great with your info to help people understand the a/r sizing method.

So, when they say that you get 20psi by 3700-3800 rpms, I am guessing they mean the 7cm housing, so I wonder how the 8cm spools, does anyone have any experience?

If people can make 450whp on a 7cm housing though, then I think that would be just about right then.

Nick

 

[Steve93Talon]

You really can't compare one company's housing to another directly. The AR doesnt tell the whole story. The Bullseye housings are designed to flow like an 8cm and spool like a 7cm. The reason is the size and shape of the scroll, it's like an oval inside. Likewise, the PTE housings are designed to emulate the Garrett housing, not the Mitsus. The Mitsu 6/7/8 housings are old technology, with modern designs you can have a bigger nozzle area without sacrificing spool-up. A PTE 50 trim with a .63 AR might spool as well as a Green with a 7cm housing, though it's hard to say definitively without testing them back to back on the same car.

 

[sweet97]

I have the AGP RS49 with the bullseye turbine that comes on this turbo. Bullseye would not share the A/R of the turbine with me. Proprietary info. I can say that boost comes on nicely withut the big lag I was afraid of. Bullseye did say that they prefer a smaller A/R with a bigger wheel. The turbine wheel is a T-31 or stage 3 what ever that means, 76 trim. Mark

 

[goofynick6]

I have the AGP RS49 with the bullseye turbine that comes on this turbo. Bullseye would not share the A/R of the turbine with me. Proprietary info. I can say that boost comes on nicely withut the big lag I was afraid of. Bullseye did say that they prefer a smaller A/R with a bigger wheel. The turbine wheel is a T-31 or stage 3 what ever that means, 76 trim. Mark

That's good to hear; did you buy your turbo from AGP or Bullseye directly?

Also, how is the spool? What psi do you get by what rpms normally? I was unaware the the Mitsu was an older design. I love top-end, but having some mid-range is awesome around town.

Nick

 

[sweet97]

Nick, Bullseye does not sell a 50 trim so that they do not compete with someone they supply turbo's to. Mine came from AGP. I have been in the process of tuning and cannot give an accurate number as to psi by x=RPM. I run 18 psi which will climb to 20 at higher rpm's. I ran an EVO III before this and am not seeing a dramatic difference in spool. A lot more required in spporting mods though. I had never installed my Walbro 255 with the EVO but needed it with the RS49. I had to change FMIC's also. I had a dejon street model but it would only allw 13 psi before knock.I found a small Spearco that is decent and still fit without cuttig the bumper. I am also running a 2.5" exhaust. I will probably keep it 2.5" for some time as I just bought it last summer and it's hard to sell unless I cut it big and I will not do that.
I like the AGP RST turbo's with the polished covers and 1 year warranty. You can get a 50 trim for $699.+ options, great buy or even a 60 for the same price. Mark

 

[dsmrunaway1]

u jus said u could only run 13 psi because of a fmic....thats weird....i know people who run 20g's and don't even have a fmic and run 18psi with like 2 counts of knock...which is barely nothing......and u having a fmic should not give knock....u jus need to tune better and that knock will go away...throw it on the dyno and u will get rid of knock and be able to run more boost......but to get on topic...i don't know about 50 trims there kinda weak id say...one of my buddys got his 50 trim dynoed at 20lbs and put down 349whp and my friend with a 16g everything ported and jus other lil shit.....no boost controller on his car either....they went 3rd gear roll and the kid with the 16g lost by 1 car...pretty depressing....so i went with the scm61.... .......

 

[PieTSI]

The Mitsu 6/7/8 housings are old technology, with modern designs you can have a bigger nozzle area without sacrificing spool-up. A PTE 50 trim with a .63 AR might spool as well as a Green with a 7cm housing, though it's hard to say definitively without testing them back to back on the same car.

The mitsubishi turbo housings were designed in the 80's while the garrett housings were designed in the 60's. I don't understand how the mitsubishi design would be considered old technology here.

Did you ever see a PTE housing vs. a full garrett? The full garrett will make more power in any same setup.

As for a PTE vs. a green...The green has been proven to make more power. But you get what you pay for, the green is a little more pricey.

 

[goofynick6]

Good info.

What is the difference between the AGP RS49 and RS49T performance wise? Once is cheaper, polished, has a 1 year warranty, but seems to have same specs?

It seems the comparable bullseye turbo would be the to4b (H-3)? And that RS60T, they say 30psi by 4000 rpms? That seems nuts, but probably overkill for someone aiming for 400awhp.

Nick

 

[sweet97]

No difference in power with the RS49 and the RS49T. The first is Garrett and the second turbonetics. I cannot say what either turbo runs for it's center section, could be both Turbonetics or the 49 a Garrett and the 49T is Turbonetics.
As for running a 20G on the stock side mount or a 50 trim for that matter I doubt many can get away without a FMIC. I tried the Dejontool street FMIC and that is where I could do 13 PSI with the 50 trim before knock.
Dave at Dejon pretty much said the street FMIC was for a EVO 16G level. I do not want to hack my bumper so I went with it and it failed.Great IC workmanship wise, too small. The Spearco 2-221 has gone 10's but it is also small and will require more fne tuning for me to reach my goal of 20PSI on pump. I run a true Cold Air Intake with my filter outside the engine compartment in the place the sidemount was, nice! I have header wrap for the short route IC to TB IC pipe.
As for a race between 2 cars that doesn't say much. Either could need tuning, mods or have a better driver, lots of variables. Start a post on the requirement for a 20G as far a an IC goes and see what the community has to say!
Sorry to get off topic for the specs of the FP Green. Mark

 

[goofynick6]

I just received this email from AGP regarding the turbos:

"The RS49 uses Garrett parts, where the "T" uses Turbonetics parts.
Performance wise, there is nothing different. Both are standard
bearing
turbos.

We have a good deal going for about another week or so on the "T" then
the
price will be going up to around $900."

So, if anyone is considering them, time to buy!


Nick

 

[sweet97]

Nick if you have any other contact with AGP will you find out if the "standard bearings" are 270 degree or the 360 degree thrust bearings? Great deal on those "T" models. If I had not recently gotten the RS49 I would be going for 1 of them. One thing though is the turbine housings do not look as beefy as the one on the garrett models. Mark

 

[repoofrs]

I just received this email from AGP regarding the turbos:

"The RS49 uses Garrett parts, where the "T" uses Turbonetics parts.
Performance wise, there is nothing different. Both are standard
bearing
turbos.

We have a good deal going for about another week or so on the "T" then
the
price will be going up to around $900."

So, if anyone is considering them, time to buy!


Nick

I wish that was entirely true. My brand new RS49 has the words "Turbonetics" stamped on the back of the housing. Anyone care to explain that?

 

[sweet97]

It appears they subbed a housing. send an emal to [email protected] and complain if you are not satisfied. I have heard of this happening before. I just got one of the RS60T turbo's and am not concerned with the turbonetics. Ben said both the garrett and turbonetics use a 360* thrust bearing. Since the RS49T has a 1 year warranty ask Ben to replace the RS49 with garrett components or give you a 1 year warranty in writig. Mark