Ported 1G intake mani = FRH, Venom, Magnus

[liquordrunk]

Here is the delima. I just got done reading the link that was in the 1g extruded hone,venom magnus dejon and frh intake comparison unbiased and here is hte link from it http://nabr.jayntguru.com/shootout/ but the question arises to me that if the 1g mani is stock now if Ported since as you can see on the graph it will not flatten out on top end as soon but later hence worth port.. this would still put forth a great alternative to paying 500 plus for intake mani when you can spend 25 and some time porting and have the 1g flow just as much as the FRH for one instance. check there website the FRH show that the 1g only loses to the FRH on topend well port the sucker and there you have it ..
Now on the Nabr site it shows that hte 1g runs out of flow around 6600 orit levels off not build ne more power.. okay now it shows at 7400 it is EQUAL with the Magnus in airflow(lbs/min) and a few others . now what im asking? If i were to Port the 1g mani i would change the flow out run( flatten out ) to later say around 7200 this would make it performa better than the other top of the line intakes since they build up slower but keep climbing as in the BJ and Magnus. im not sure how mani guys out there run past 8 grand on a daily basis im sure there are a few. but it seems imho that just porting the 1g mani would make it a better performer for hte money!

 

[WombatTSi]

porting a 1g manifold isn't easy, by any means. Making the holes bigger, thats easy; getting the runner diameter to match is the hard part. It needs to be extrude honed, becuase of the lenght and shape of the runners, theres no way to just simply get a die grinder in there. Look to spend between $300 and $500 to get it extrude honed. That is if you can find a shop with the equipment to do it. And even then, it will still flatten out up top. Its not the size of the runners that makes that big a difference, its the length of them that kills the top end. Just go with a aftermarket one, if nothing else, think of all the weight you'll lose

 

[liquordrunk]

no see this is the type of answer i was lookin for i was hopeing that no one would post and say use the search button which i did and
wombattsi
thanks it makes a lot of sense now im guessin that i jsut couldnt see the relevancy of it till you said what you did now having you say that
now how many drivers actually run there cars past 8grand daily to see the need of the magnus or Bj's since according ot the chart in the earlier post it shows the Venom intake with Loads more lbs/min and continually is goin up now i emailed Jim Mckeone to see if he had ne air lfow charts of his intake since i am very interested in his intake since it is very short stacked hince adds to topend! correct? but i am awaiting his reply

 

[greycar]

The only way to go is Magnus all they way, stock sucks, dejons is made out of steel and the design is horrible, the venom is the same crappy design but at least is aluminum, extrude honing is better than stock or match ported stock. But the Magnus intake is engineered and race proven. I run one so you should too.

 

[logic]

The only way to go is Magnus all they way, stock sucks, dejons is made out of steel and the design is horrible, the venom is the same crappy design but at least is aluminum, extrude honing is better than stock or match ported stock. But the Magnus intake is engineered and race proven. I run one so you should too.

Did I actually just read this in the "Extreme Tech" forum? Ye ghods. Did you even bother to look at the data that was collected at the shootout, or did you come to these conclusions with independant testing of your own? Or are you just a fanboy trying to justify the money you spent on a part?

Anyway, to a serious reply: out of the entrants in that shootout, I think a few obvious manifolds emerged, depending on your needs. This is all IMHO; frankly, people should do their own analysis of the data, because there's some interesting stuff in there if you spend a few minutes with it.

If you need quick spool-up, the Hogans/Extreme manifold really shined here; it was significantly ahead of the rest in airflow increase vs. time. So far ahead, in fact, that I wonder if something was up with this test. For low-speed autocross use, this one looks like a winner to me.

Up top, the Venom dominated, no question about it. Just about the time the 1g intake is losing steam (6500 RPM), it starts to really shine, and doesn't show much sign of falling off anytime soon; they shut the testing down at just shy of 7800 RPM, and it was still trending upward. If you're regularly seeing 8000 RPM and up, this is the probably one for you, but only "real" drag racers need apply, I'd think.

For mid-range, the stock 1g manifold was very impressive. From 4700-6500 RPM, it really dominated the rest; looking a time-vs-airflow graph, it stands out, but once you look at RPM-vs-airflow, there's no question. The problem is, it takes a beating off the line, and past 6500 RPM it levels off (although I think the average person would have a hard time finding fault in 54-55lbs/min). If your regular operating range is 4500-6500, though, I'd have a hard time suggesting using anything else (think road racing, autocross, etc).

In the end, if you have a street car, I can't see you having much of a problem with the stock 1g manifold. Porting would probably help the top-end a bit, but I suspect that impressive midrange would become less so. It's really a shame they didn't have the time to do a stock 2g, extrude-honed 1g/2g, or Cyclone (one pass with runners closed, one with them open), because I think you'd find some interesting numbers from both the 2g and the Cyclone. But I'm just grateful for what they did have a chance to do.

For the archives, I put together a couple of charts based on the data in the txt files that were supplied for each manifold. Note that the RPM vs. Airflow chart is a little wonky, because of stutter in RPM values over time (they didn't increase consistantly). Hopefully these give a couple of interesting views on the data.

 

[greycar]

OK logic, I forgot how smart you are. I have ran a venom, buschur and a magnus so I have wasted plenty of money on alot of crap. Maybe when you understand airflow, velocity and some engineering you will know why I have chosen to run a Magnus intake. Ok alot of companies run a tapered runner, but the air on the wall of the tube moves drastically slower than the air in the middle, You can make more even airflow with this part called a venturi, this is a trumpet shaped piece which speeds up the airflow on the walls of the tube, with this done you get more even airflow throughout the WHOLE tube no just the center of the tube. How about length of tube this is a huge part of where the powerband is going to be( shorter for top end and longer for bottom end. What about main plentum size???? no point on having a huge one when you can't get air through the runner. Velocity whats that?????????who needs velocity??????? With Marcos design it works on all DSMs because its been engineered to do so.

Mod edit: you really have to learn how to argue technical issues with out making it personal

 

[greycar]

oh yeah by the test results its looks like stock will work fine for everybody.

 

[logic]

And Logic you want to call me a fanboy of Marco, F*CK YOU, I have known Marco since we were both going 12s years ago back in Nam, I bet you still haven't gone 12s cause you still haven't got out of parking lot racing.

*sigh* I expected as much. I'm not entirely sure why I bother anymore. But what exactly did you expect, when you posted the equivilant of "buy Marco's ish, it's mad tyte, yo!", without any real information?

I'm familiar with the engineering aspect of this, and I suspect most folks reading this particular forum are as well. If you really want to start an interesting discussion, you might want to look at the results of that shootout, and discuss why the Magnus manifold wasn't able to deliver the volume of air that the Venom did at any point on the curve. (Hint: look at the plenums on the two tested manifolds. Personally, I think there's a bit of room for improvement over the Venom plenum as well.)

But this is way off topic for what the original poster was curious about. To him, I say: since cost appears to be a concern, you're probably better off with mildly porting (mainly just smoothing out whatever you can reach, nothing dramatic, unless you have the means to get it extrude honed as WombatTSi suggested) a 1g manifold, and spending the money elsewhere for more significant gains. When you're talking about an airflow difference between the 1g and (say) the Venom of barely over 3 lbs/min at around 7800 RPM, I really think you could get a better bang for the buck elsewhere, unless you're at the point where you're trying to wring every last bit of horsepower out of the car. All IMHO, of course, and I'm sure others will disagree.

 

[greycar]

The other part that was not metioned is that different setups will produce different results, a stock turbo vs a gt42 is going to require a entirely different intake manifold. Each product is going to react different with different engine and turbo combinations.

 

[98GSX_MTX]

The above is soo true.

There are plenty of people that have great performance from a 2G intake and head. Hell look at the EVO8 guys. To me the valves seem to be a choke point more than the stock manifold.

I would put my $500 into juice, cams, or a monster turbo before a SMIM.

You can cram monster things into tight little holes with great returns!

 

[Colossus]

English is always nice to hear once in a while.

 

[liquordrunk]

alright money itsnt the issue its jsut that it seemed like that people go with magnus and bj's and which i can see why! I asked about the 1g ported extrude honed since i wish they had time to test it i would have liked to see the results. as surethat everyone else would have. yes the venom killed them all and was still goin to me it jsut looked like the 1g was whooopin ass until it leveled off and then i figured that the extrude honed would produce similar numbers to the magnus though im sure it wouldnt but at leasta run at it!
and yes you can see the air flow droppin off considerbly on the 1g after like 6500. seeing the numbers i run a 20g and just had a ?'s about the comparability to the bjls and venm and magnus to hte 1g is all hince now i believe that after talkin ot Jim Mckeone ill get one of his manifols since it is similar to the magnus but with a bigger plenum so that would produce a little more top end. thus my questions have been answered thanks

 

[na90dsm]

imho the venom kicked ass in those charts. i hear so many people on here sayign that manifold is crap and dotn even look at it but those are some impressive numbers. that just mihgt be my next manifold.

 

[Batty200]

My friend bought a Vemon and it cracked about 6times costing him reliability and several dyno contests (broke days before hand) He called Venom and they said that it was designed for "under 25psi" and thats all the boost you ever need to run. I say the venom may make power but it is an unreliable POS.


Later

 

[na90dsm]

thats fine then, ill be runnign 0 psi

 

[greycar]

The whole chart comparison is total one sided BS. There are so many varibles to chosing a product. Nothing in those charts talks about PSI, valve lift, cam duration, comp ratio, etc.etc.

Ok with that said the Magnus intake is the most all around suited intake out there. Weather it be on Marcos GT42R setup to my T3T4 to my buddy Nicks 500hp Evo 8, or even my brothers big 16g setup.

All intakes will work fairly similar and get you fairly similar results but the proof is in the pudding.

Try putting 40 psi to a venom and others and you'll see why they suck!

 

[greycar]

Don't waste you money on extrudehoning, I did in the past and only got marginal results. The stock one with match porting is a better value. I also heard that BJs is no longer, can somebody varify if I'm correct.

 

[GRNDSM]

I think that 25psi design limit is inexcusable! The odds are that they just picked a number lower than what Dave said he was running and went with it.

I do not like Venom as a company, but I now had my Venom intake for almost 3 years (going as high as 40psi), it never cracked and I am very happy with it!!!

 

[logic]

I also heard that BJs is no longer, can somebody varify if I'm correct.

http://www.bjscylinderheads.com/

Looks like he's still around, although his website is a little spartan.

 

[PSI2HI]

From my personal experience the 1G intake is a joke if you want to make any power up top. We've tested the 1G vs. FRH vs. Magnus and the Magnus put them all to shame hands down. On one of our own shop cars switching to HKS 264's and a FRH intake we gained a whopping 200-300 more rpm to the powerband and a whole 2 whp. Now on the other hand in our other shop car running the same turbo setup w/ a Magnus intake the power was still climibing all the way to 8k.

End result the FRH intake car made 416 whp and tapered off. The Magnus car made 530whp and never tapered off. Both cars running SCM61's on ~27 psi on stock bottom ends and a stock head w/ cams.. My $.02 from hands on dyno testing. Take it or leave it, believe it or dont, it's your $$.

 

[WikedSicc]

Anyone that thinks the Magnus is a good intake manifold has absolutly no idea of how airflow works. The Forrester and BJ's is a much much much better design. Have you seen inside the plenum of the Magnus, it blows my mind everytime I look at it. What were they thinking?!?!?!

 

[jmc94gsx]

Good, then go tell Marco he doesn't know what he's doing and design your own because you are a true automotive visionary. Tell everybody who have dyno tested them and got improved numbers that they're wrong as well, the improvements must have been acts of God. It works, WTF are you arguing about, it doesn't "look" like the "correct" way, weak argument chief.

 

[na90dsm]

agreed

 

[PSI2HI]

Obviously you honestly have never used any of these intakes or have much of a clue what you are talking about. Velocity stacks actually increase the rate of airflow. If the Magnus sucks so bad how come everyone is making big power on them? How come in side by side testing which we did ourselves the Magnus blew the FRH out of the water? Magnus was still pulling hard @ 8k where the FRH had died off by 7k.

No joke we had 115whp diff between the 2 cars using the same turbo. SCM61 w/ 264's and FRH 416whp, SCM61 272's and Magnus 530whp same boost level both stock bottom ends both stock unported heads.

 

[WikedSicc]

I do not understand how you can come to a conclusion and produce values you say are correct when more than one variable was changed.