FP green + tial gate questions

[sleeper142]

Hey all,
i just recently dynoed and decided that the only restriction in mysetup is my turbo and injectors... currently my setup is as follows:
6 bolt motor/2g head (stage3 port with 1mm over valves dual valve springs)
wiseco pistons and eagle rods
stock 6 bolt crank
big 16g ported and clipped
550's
dsmlink
hrc 02 eliminator dp
Aeromotive afpr
full exhaust
fmic
hks 264/272's
etc...

my engine is obviously built to take a bigger turbo, and im probablly going to go with the green. Id like to see about 400-425 at the wheels (im fwd) so i will be getting 720's and a fp green. as for wastegates though, i will probablly go with an external as it seems to be the only practical choice for a turbo of such size.

what size tial wg do you all reccomend?
what are you running?
how is it mounted? (id like to maintain my hrc 02 eliminator dp)
what do you think of this setup as far as the numbers im looking for?

im really only looking to bust off some high 11's on slicks (like 11.999 ) anyways youre input is greatly appreciated, and i hope i followed all the requirements for posting a turbo related thread.
looking foreward to your responses!
Albert

 

[jdmawd]

dude you're motor just e-mailed me, it said i want a GT30 ball bearing hybrid from www.slowboyracing.com. with a TSO4 comp housing

 

[rdrkt]

If you get really serious and have a good tuner there is no reason you can't see 115 traps on a 16g on c16. People have done there is no reason you can't too.

 

[Violater101]

40mm gate is fine. That's what i'm using

 

[CanadianTSi]

That is roughly the setup that I am working on right now, so I guess i'm just curious as what your HP numbers were????

 

[dukmahsik]

35mm or 40mm is fine

 

[larryd]

yeah 35 or 40 would really be fine.. Im running the L2R and my goals are similar.. I chose the 40 just incase I would need it.. Figured Id get it right the 1st time..

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by sleeper142
Hey all,
i just recently dynoed and decided that the only restriction in mysetup is my turbo and injectors... currently my setup is as follows:
6 bolt motor/2g head (stage3 port with 1mm over valves dual valve springs)
wiseco pistons and eagle rods
stock 6 bolt crank
big 16g ported and clipped
550's
dsmlink
hrc 02 eliminator dp
Aeromotive afpr
full exhaust
fmic
hks 264/272's
etc...

my engine is obviously built to take a bigger turbo, and im probablly going to go with the green. Id like to see about 400-425 at the wheels (im fwd) so i will be getting 720's and a fp green. as for wastegates though, i will probablly go with an external as it seems to be the only practical choice for a turbo of such size.

what size tial wg do you all reccomend?
what are you running?
how is it mounted? (id like to maintain my hrc 02 eliminator dp)
what do you think of this setup as far as the numbers im looking for?

im really only looking to bust off some high 11's on slicks (like 11.999 ) anyways youre input is greatly appreciated, and i hope i followed all the requirements for posting a turbo related thread.
looking foreward to your responses!
Albert

So...

What were the numbers?

 

[sleeper142]

also as far as turbos go, its quite confusing. I have heard great things about both the green and the BR20g. however things like AGP L2R and the GT30 dual ballbearing as mentioned by jdmawd interest me greatly too. however these turbos look great on paper, but whos to say they are any good for the numbers and results id like to see? Look at the mutt, supposedly that thing sucked, but it looked great on paper. I know there are people on here who have the green, br20g, and agp l2r. what are your opinions and what made you to decide to get the turbo you did, and are you happy with its results? I dont want to drive a lag monster, as i drive my car quite frequently.
thanks
Albert

 

[jdmawd]

however these turbos look great on paper, but whos to say they are any good for the numbers and results id like to see? Look at the mutt, supposedly that thing sucked, but it looked great on paper.

Why do they suck, because one online community financed by forced performance told you so? The dsm-performance garret hybrid's are putting up great numbers and are going fast with each passing day.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jdmawd
Why do they suck

Gee where do I begin? There supposedly sold some ungodly number of turbos but there are only a handful that I have seen go fast. They had huge documented build quality issues. They had a huge online hype machine on DSMTalk.

Listen JDM you seem to not be able to let this thing go. Every time someone starts talking about turbos you feel the need to go off on a tangent. Don’t get your shorts in a bunch because the Forced Performance fans called a spade a spade. If they are great then fine fantastic. All I am asking is that you show me the money. If they are so great there should be a small army of fast DSMs with DSM Performance turbos.

Why don’t you show us all what is up by building your car into a beast? It certainty has a lot of goodies in it. Then you could silence all the critics single handedly.

 

[larryd]

Dave.. please stop starting issues with jdmawd.. all he did was reply with his personal opinion. That doesnt give you an open invitation to question him or his thoughts.

 

[sleeper142]

this is exactly what i wanted to hear from you guys, i want all of your personal opinions on these setups and the pros and cons of each, why you chose them and so on... no need for flaming, this is an opinion thread!

 

[jw]

The arguement can all be ended by going to http://times.dsm.org
Go pick your idol and the turbo they run

Simple as that, let the timeslip do the talking. You want to run 11s? Go see what turbo those 11s guys ran with. They deserve your attention because that's what counts. Enough said.

 

[Slowboy]

There are a lot of people out there running well on DSM-Performance turbos. Just because they are not posting all the time on this list, or have there times on dsm-times pages does not mean they are not there. I personally know two people running low 12's and high 11's in full weight GVR4's with 50 trim "mutts". These same people would not trade there turbo for anything.

So, going to DSM times pages and seeing who FP sponsors, may not be the best way to decide on a turbo. There are so many good options out there. Turbo.com, AGP, myself ( slowboy ) Robert Young, Dsm-performance... and the list goes on.

Call all the vendors, talk to each owner/ or salesman. Tell him you goals for the car, ask him to explain in terms you understand, get to feel comfortable in your purchase.

Sure, I even watched Curt Brown run 141 MPH on his Red turbo on Saturday night, does that mean you will run 141 if you buy a red? NOPE... so do the right thing and call around. Do not buy a turbo because of what you see on the times pages alone....

Also, you do not need an external gate to run 11's. To say that is just not true. Period.

Mike Huml
aka...slowboy

 

[sleeper142]

Doesnt it help to have an internal on a larger turbo such as an agp or green, when youd like to run 22+ psi of boost to 8k rpm?

 

[Slowboy]

My customers are running internal gates on everything from 50 trim's to 60-1 and having no problems running 15 to over 30 psi.

My one cutomers even runs an internal on my GT BB SBR-GT12. He can run as little as 15 psi to redline, and has run 25psi at the track... To bad his transfer case blew up on the second pass... I was looking forward to seeing what 28 psi was going to do!

Mike Huml
aka...slowboy

 

[NDgsx]

Internal gates are a compromise if they only use a single port actuator (I haven't plaid with the dual port garret pieces). The ones I have seen all open slightly before you hit full boost.
With an external gate you get two nipples. There is a diagphram between the two pieces and a spring in the top section. With a EBC you can run both ports to hold the valve completely closed until you hit full boost. The bottom port gets a direct line from the intake manifold or compressor housing. Then you run a line from the intake manifold to the in port on your box and run the out port to the top of the wastegate.
This way you have boost pressure on top of the pressure of the spring to help hold the valve closed.

Also when you go to an external most people end up going with a tubular o2 housing. You would be suprised how much you can lower the boost threshold going to a true 2.5" or 3" o2 housing. On one car with a 20G going from a very ported 2G o2 housing to a true 3" o2 housing made the car get full boost at 3300rpm vs. 3600rpm.

I'd go with a 40mm personally.

 

[BatmanGSX]

I have a TiAL 46mm but I haven't used it. I think I am going to try to run just the side port for the time being.

The way the gate works is pretty simple, you have exhaust gases pushing on the valve on one side and a spring holding it shut on the other. The second part of the story is the actuator section which is pushing the same direction as the exhaust gases, fill it with enough compressed air and "bam" the exhaust gases push the valve open with the help of the compressed air in the actuator chamber. The third player is the top chamber, this pushes the same direction as the spring. You fill this up with compressed air and it's going to make the valve harder to open. When and how much the chambers get filled up is up to how you set the controlers.

The ability to get fast spool and good boost control is all going to depend on your exhaust pressures. With 200hp and a 46mm with a really heavy spring you might not even get the gate to open at all. With 800hp and a light spring you might have trouble holding it shut. It's going to take some experimentation.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by Slowboy
There are a lot of people out there running well on DSM-Performance turbos. Just because they are not posting all the time on this list, or have there times on dsm-times pages does not mean they are not there.

Why aren't they sending their times to the times page? This pisses me off to no end. Supposedly there are all these people running xx wonderful times with whatever turbo and not sending their times in. Thats fu@king lame on their part. The times page has been a staple part of the DSM comunity for years. If people aren't using it then they are stupid. Until their time is on there it doesn't exist in my opinion.

If you have a good time with whatever turbo then brag about it on the times page, that's why it's there.

Also, THE TIMES PAGE DOESN'T LIE. Look at all the 16G times, it's 99% likely that you will run anywhere between the slowest 16G time and the fastest 16G time if you get a 16G. Statistics don't lie. It's still a good way to pick a turbo for your goals because it shows an entire field of people running those turbos. If lame people with whatever kind of turbo want to hide their times then they are a$$holes because it's like keeping usefull info from other people in the community who could really use it.

 

[Slowboy]

Thats fu@king lame on their part. The times page has been a staple part of the DSM comunity for years. If people aren't using it then they are stupid. Until their time is on there it doesn't exist in my opinion.

This is kind of harsh. And I am not in the position to answer for them. You should really kind of chill out You have way to much stress.

If you have a good time with whatever turbo then brag about it on the times page, that's why it's there

Some people must not feel the need to brag?

Also, THE TIMES PAGE DOESN'T LIE. Look at all the 16G times, it's 99% likely that you will run anywhere between the slowest 16G time and the fastest 16G time if you get a 16G.

You are really going out on a limb here. So, if I buy a 16g, I will run between a 15 sec slip, and an 11 sec. slip. I feel better already!

It's still a good way to pick a turbo for your goals because it shows an entire field of people running those turbos. If lame people with whatever kind of turbo want to hide their times then they are a$$holes because it's like keeping usefull info from other people in the community who could really use it.

Its not the best way to choose a turbo. Period. Maybe if you could see ALL of there mods, there VPC settings, AFC settings, etc, etc, etc... it would be good. But someone new thinking they can call me, order the biggest turbo, and run 11's is not what I want to happen! All because they saw it on the times page........

Mike Huml
aka...slowboy

 

[jdmawd]

You would be suprised how much you can lower the boost threshold going to a true 2.5" or 3" o2 housing.

I would have to agree I have noticed unusually quick spoolup with the switch to a 3" tubular 02 housing.

If people aren't using it then they are stupid. Until their time is on there it doesn't exist in my opinion.

Honesty I cant accept that a Internet list, owned and operated by Forced Performance should be the bible of turbo selection. As Mike stated, what another person runs with a certain turbo is not relevant to you're turbo selection. I would much rather take the advice of a turbo shop to direct me in my selection. a blind read only Internet list just does not yield enough information.

 

[AntGVR4]

First off the times pages is updated by a member of the DSM community. So you think because he works for forced performance that makes any difference. Does he not post times that are submitted to him or do you think he makes them up along the way ?
I don't understand what your point is ?

Also not everyone on the dsmtimes.org page runs great numbers, there are some really slow numbers with big turbo's. Personally I always look to the page to determine where I stand with my turbo and to help me decide what's the next turbo I should buy.

Ant

 

[jdmawd]

First off the times pages is updated by a member of the DSM community

um..who else would update a dsm time list but a dsm enthusiast?

I always look to the page to determine where I stand with my turbo

 

[AntGVR4]

jdmawd-
You posted a nonsense reply and totally avoided my question.
This just proves how wrong you know you are, otherwise you would have a more intellegent answer to my question.

Ant