External Wastegate Questions!!!!

[squeak10686]

hey guys,
Im planning on doing this to my 16g... i was wondering if you could scroll down and tell me what you think about how he did it... he took out the internal gate to do it... just tell me whether you think its a good or bad idea thaks
Andrew


http://www.jakelatham.com/1gDSM/projects/external_wastegate/

 

[1fast97gsx]

an internal gate is fine on a 16g. In worst case it will need some porting and a 34mm flapper.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Looks like a run of the mill O2 mounted gate to me, these have been out forever. Perhaps I am missing something special about it? I read it over quickly.

an internal gate is fine on a 16g. In worst case it will need some porting and a 34mm flapper.

I wouldnt recomend a 34mm internal on a 16. Here is a thread I started about a year and a half ago:


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55813&highlight=blowing+open+info

 

[Agent Ezzard]

I opted for an 02 mounted gate on my AGP turbo. It's a Tial 40mm on a Victory Performance 02 housing. On my old Big16g I had an internal with no creep problems.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Creep is the last thing you are worried about when trying to run high boost. My biggest problem with internals is keeping them from blowing open.

 

[Agent Ezzard]

I wouldn't opt for in internal on a turbo that is capable of supporting high boost pressures. Even if they are proven to work. Creep on the other hand was more of a worry when I had my Big16 and not that many mods and knowledge of tuning.

 

[1fast97gsx]

16gs are not big turbos and generally max out at 24 psi. I had one and had a 34mm flapper and some porting and it was fine. No creep at all. Even on big turbos an external is not always needed. Internal is fine for that lil turbo.

 

[Scrymerr]

...And that external gates sounds sweet as hell!

 

[heavyD]

...And that external gates sounds sweet as hell!

If you like scaring pedestrians its okay. Personally I think it sounds like shit.

 

[Agent Ezzard]

Honestly I don't notice it.

 

[Scrymerr]

If you like scaring pedestrians its okay. Personally I think it sounds like shit.

Im not really talking about the noise under boost as all the exhaust just goes to atmosphere. Im talking about the loud chirp it makes when you let off or shift..

 

[1fast97gsx]

Im not really talking about the noise under boost as all the exhaust just goes to atmosphere. Im talking about the loud chirp it makes when you let off or shift..

that's a bov dude ... not a wastegate.

On a sidenote I am running an external gate on my scm61 turbo and hate it. It sounds like crap. Unless you recirculate it back into the exhaust it will sound horrible. Internal is the way to go ... then if there is creeping problems then do some porting and upgrade the flapper. If that still doesn't help then CONSIDER going external although I still wouldn't. A 16G IS A SMALL TURBO AND DOESN'T NEED AN EXTERNAL.

 

[cfisher]

i agree. you shoudn't need an external for a 16g. i externally dump mine and love it at times, hate it at others. it does sound badass when racing but gets old after awhile. that and i can't race it without waking up the entire city. cops always show up 2 minutes after i run it.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

If you read the thread I linked to above, you'll see that while boost was set to 25 psi, it would drop to 19-20 by redline. Because the internal cant stay shut. This has nothing to do with creep. If boost dropping 6 psi to redline is ok for you, then go for it I would rather be able to hold set boost to redline. With an external, there are no problems like this. So I dont care if it sounds like crap, it does the job

 

[Scrymerr]

that's a bov dude ... not a wastegate.

I have the turbonetics evolution WG, and it does chirp. and it is a much different noise than the Greddy Type-S which I have had on the car for almost a year before I went external WG.

 

[lowridin2g]

hmm thats wierd, i have run as little as 19 psi on my 50 trim up to 23 psi on it with an internal gate 38mm. i get no creep, no spike, and ZERO DROP OFF. holds solid all the way to 7400 where i shift. although on the big16g if i had it set at 23 psi it would usually drop off to 21 by redline with the internal gate. (not a 34 mm)

 

[Kevin Jewer]

23 psi is pretty low though. I could get 23 out of my internal/50 trim as well, but not much more. Thats why I went external originally.

 

[na90dsm]

so which would be best on a 50 trim, internal or external. o2 mounted or runner mounted.


16g and a 34mm flapper form what ive read is a good setup and works well

 

[Kevin Jewer]

External will always be "best" if money isnt factored in. On a 50 trim I would personally only use an external in my car, based on my experience with various internals (different size flappers, different spring rates, etc).

On a 16g and 34mm I had nothing but trouble trying to keep boost at 25 psi. By wiring the internal shut (using the manifold moutned external to actually control boost) it help 25 psi to redline. There is a thread I made about this a couple years back that can be found by seraching. But at the same time, you dont want a ton of backpressure, and a flapper blowing open will limit that. And I didnt make any noticeable extra power with that extra boost. I did pick up a couple lbs/min flow, but ran the same times. I may have picked up a little mph, the other thread may say. At any rate, it all depends on how you look at it

 

[95kate]

Im not really talking about the noise under boost as all the exhaust just goes to atmosphere. Im talking about the loud chirp it makes when you let off or shift..

ok this is a new one on me. i got the same wastegate and i dont hear anything but my engine, BOV and my turbo spoolin up. is it because i have my exhaust goin to my downpipe?

 

[CatchMe]

Boost creap is dependent on the path of exhaust gas flow after the turbine. I had my Evo 16g (ported, 34MM WG flapper) with a mildly ported EVO3 02 housing to a 3in turboback with no cat. With this exact setup, I got massive (26psi in second gear) boost creep. After alot more porting of the Evo 02 manifold and a bit of wastegate passage porting, boost creep was eliminated. Now days I run a tial 40mm with my evo16g (because I planned to upgrade to a much larger turbo and I couldnt be happier. I get rock solid boost till redline with zero creep. I enjoy the noise (full external dump) when I get on it. But then again the car is only driven once or twice on weekends. If I had to drive it daily I would probably recirulate the dump into the down pipe. -Zach