Bogus Eagle H Beams???

[jott5555]

ok i was doin my assembly today and i got the crank set and went to put the ross/eagle combo pistions in and tourqed the arp bolts down to 60 ftlbs and there was still a ton of slop in the bearing section of the rod.

i heard a rumor that eagle came out with a batch of bad rods that were .003 oversized on the bearing end. can anyone conform this or is it a rumor?

also what options do i have to repair this other than sending my rods back to eagle?

btw its on a 90 6bolt

thanks

if anyone knows the exact tourque for arp main studs, rod bolts, and head studs i could use that info also..

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Did you size your bearings to the crank with the plasti-gauge? If not, that could be your problem.

 

[jott5555]

yes i did and it came out to umm .060...

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Well, what are the manufacturers tolerances for the gap? If that space is too big, you need to order larger bearings.

 

[jott5555]

i imagine i will need to get larger bearings to take the slack up but its probally going to be a some strange off size which is what bothers me.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Has your crank been turned? Have you had your main's line bored?

 

[terefic181]

Here are the stock clearances and min requirements for the OEM parts if that helps you any.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

I would go by what Eagle wants the tolerances to be..

 

[burldude]

I would mic the crank and then confirm if it is specs . If the crank is not out of spec and is round and true I would move on to the rod . You said that it is .060 so I am going to asume that is in mm . This is not that far off and alot of race motors spec there bearings to be as much as double the factory . But since this is a street motor and I would want my oil pressure higher than 5 psi per 1000 rpm I would tighten it up a bit . All you have to do is take the cap and some 220 grit sandpaper and sand the mating surface down . The surface your rod bolts go through . This will close up the bearing clearance . Do it in stages till you have it within specs . You dont have to worry about going ou tof round becuase you are going to remove very little material . You are almost within max limit as it is . If your .060 is in inches than you have to check the id of your con rod . If it is in specs than mic your crank . You just need a simple micrometer for any of this . Email me if you have any questions [email protected] I like really building engines , from the ground up micro polishing cranks and polishing bearings and all the other little tricks.

I need to add that when sanding the mating surface make sure you place the piece of sand paper on a piece of glass or other straight and true surface . You want to keep it at as much of a 90 degree angle as possible . REmember to take your time with this ,it is critical that you do not round the cap mating surface . This somthing that cannot be done wrong or you could end up with rod bolt failure .

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

I would mic the crank and then confirm if it is specs . If the crank is not out of spec and is round and true I would move on to the rod . You said that it is .060 so I am going to asume that is in mm . This is not that far off and alot of race motors spec there bearings to be as much as double the factory . But since this is a street motor and I would want my oil pressure higher than 5 psi per 1000 rpm I would tighten it up a bit . All you have to do is take the cap and some 220 grit sandpaper and sand the mating surface down . The surface your rod bolts go through . This will close up the bearing clearance . Do it in stages till you have it within specs . You dont have to worry about going ou tof round becuase you are going to remove very little material . You are almost within max limit as it is . If your .060 is in inches than you have to check the id of your con rod . If it is in specs than mic your crank . You just need a simple micrometer for any of this . Email me if you have any questions [email protected] I like really building engines , from the ground up micro polishing cranks and polishing bearings and all the other little tricks.

I need to add that when sanding the mating surface make sure you place the piece of sand paper on a piece of glass or other straight and true surface . You want to keep it at as much of a 90 degree angle as possible . REmember to take your time with this ,it is critical that you do not round the cap mating surface . This somthing that cannot be done wrong or you could end up with rod bolt failure .

Wow, this might be the reply of the week.. Did you really just suggest to use sandpaper to get the tolerances closer to spec?

And 5psi per 1000rpm of oil pressure? WTF are you talking about? And did you also say "not to worry about going out of round while sanding the rod journals???? !!

The only good idea you have it to mic the crank. If it's in spec, then back to my idea of the bearing sizes.

 

[terefic181]

I would go by what Eagle wants the tolerances to be.

Sorry I wasn't trying to get jott5555 to use all the stock numbers only the pertinant ones.
Absolutely go by what Eagle says.
I take it that (crank journal tolerances) not the oil clearances do remain the same. Am I mistaken on this? Does Eagle call for doing a grind on the crank journals to mate with thier rods?

 

[burldude]

Wow, this might be the reply of the week.. Did you really just suggest to use sandpaper to get the tolerances closer to spec?

And 5psi per 1000rpm of oil pressure? WTF are you talking about? And did you also say "not to worry about going out of round while sanding the rod journals???? !!

The only good idea you have it to mic the crank. If it's in spec, then back to my idea of the bearing sizes.

Obviously you have never built an engine with custom specs and have not much experience with clearances . If you look at my post again you will see that I told him to confirm where the problem lies before proceeding . As far as being out of round he should not worry about once again he is almost in spec and the load area will be on the top and bottom not on the sides .

This is once again if he is at .060 mm and not at .060 inches, If you look back at the factory spec the max allowable is .050 . One hundreth of a mm is not going amount to any thing more than what the rod cap will flex under load. So I would recomend to get it to the middle of the allowed spec. So if he took .015 off the rod cap whick is very little he would closre it up . .015 which would be enough for him to be near the middle of spec and not have a problem.

 

[burldude]

Sorry I wasn't trying to get jott5555 to use all the stock numbers only the pertinant ones.
Absolutely go by what Eagle says.
I take it that (crank journal tolerances) not the oil clearances do remain the same. Am I mistaken on this? Does Eagle call for doing a grind on the crank journals to mate with thier rods?

You are correct on on the crank Journal . I dont know off hand what the eagle spec are but becuase of the supperior material and construction they would flex less allowing greater clearances . And becuase of thermal properties I dont know if you would wnat to go tighter . I would have to say middle of the spread. I'll check this out and tell you all if Iam wrong

 

[burldude]

ok i was doin my assembly today and i got the crank set and went to put the ross/eagle combo pistions in and tourqed the arp bolts down to 60 ftlbs and there was still a ton of slop in the bearing section of the rod.

i heard a rumor that eagle came out with a batch of bad rods that were .003 oversized on the bearing end. can anyone conform this or is it a rumor?

also what options do i have to repair this other than sending my rods back to eagle?

btw its on a 90 6bolt

thanks

if anyone knows the exact tourque for arp main studs, rod bolts, and head studs i could use that info also..

I have also heard that eagle botched a batch . But they where very far off . Not by a couple of thousandth . When you say ton of slop do you mean thrust play also ? Or is that within spec?

 

[NDgsx]

Side clearance on eagles is normally right around the middle of spec. I actually sanded mine down a little bit to increase oil flow across the rod journal, try to carry away more heat you know.
On my motor that I just assembled with stock bearings/crank and out of the box eagle my rod bearing clearance was .0012" which is pretty much perfect for what I wanted. If you have .06" rod clearance you have some SERIOUS problems.

Head studs are 81ft lbs. I don't have my eagle spec sheet for torque, sorry.

 

[NDgsx]

http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/tech/images/fasttorq.pdf
You have to know the desired clamp load and fastener tensile strength though. I'm pretty sure the eagles were 43ft lbs and the mains are probably around 46ft lbs.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

No, you're right. I've never built an engine, and would know nothing about it. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you. You're idea of using sandpaper to straighten up the tolerances, that's enough said right there about your knowledge of engines.

 

[burldude]

Side clearance on eagles is normally right around the middle of spec. I actually sanded mine down a little bit to increase oil flow across the rod journal, try to carry away more heat you know.
On my motor that I just assembled with stock bearings/crank and out of the box eagle my rod bearing clearance was .0012" which is pretty much perfect for what I wanted. If you have .06" rod clearance you have some SERIOUS problems.

Head studs are 81ft lbs. I don't have my eagle spec sheet for torque, sorry.

He still hasnt specified if he had .06 mm for clearnace or if it is sae .06 . If it is in mm than he has a bearing clearance of roughly .0023 inches which is right on the money for the "sae" standard on the plastigauge . Is the right scale being used on the plastiguage?

You know Mirage I learn somthing new everyday and am happy to keep learning . We all can .

 

[jott5555]

sweet thanks for all the replies..

and no flameing.. everyones tryin to help

anyway i measured today and i need to get .010oversized rods bearings. im about a .010 off on each rod..

what may have happened is the machinest told me he had to grind the main's down on the crank but he didnt say anything about the section where the rods connect so i beleive he may have ground them down also. and of course its the weekend so im not able to conform this until tommrow.

and i found the tq specs for all the arp crap

thanks guys another dsm problem solved..

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

He still hasnt specified if he had .06 mm for clearnace or if it is sae .06 . If it is in mm than he has a bearing clearance of roughly .0023 inches which is right on the money for the "sae" standard on the plastigauge . Is the right scale being used on the plastiguage?

You know Mirage I learn somthing new everyday and am happy to keep learning . We all can .

Correct. I learn new things everyday also. Your idea of grinding rod journals with sandpaper is not one of them. Glad you got your issues fixed, hope it all works out.

 

[GSX_RCR]

Correct. I learn new things everyday also. Your idea of grinding rod journals with sandpaper is not one of them. Glad you got your issues fixed, hope it all works out.

There's a difference between 80 grit sandpaper and 2000 grit.

And from what I understood, he meant to sand the rod bearing mating surface, not the actual inner bearing surface. Which stands to reason, since you want to bring the bearing tolerance closer.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Yes there is, and that is also the way I understood it. My opinion still stands.

 

[pinknuggit]

sweet thanks for all the replies..

and no flameing.. everyones tryin to help

anyway i measured today and i need to get .010oversized rods bearings. im about a .010 off on each rod..

what may have happened is the machinest told me he had to grind the main's down on the crank but he didnt say anything about the section where the rods connect so i beleive he may have ground them down also. and of course its the weekend so im not able to conform this until tommrow.

and i found the tq specs for all the arp crap

thanks guys another dsm problem solved..

That's the same thing i went through. I had my crank turned .010" (.25mm) on the main and rod journals. Good luck finding anyone who has the bearings you need in stock! I had to order mine.

 

[jott5555]

luckly im in good with the local parts guy ( a bennifett of living in a small town) and he got me some i ordered them this morning and got em at noon. hehhe assembly is set for tommow mronin

 

[bastarddsm]

Being that i grew up in a speed shop that built many many high performance motors, i know one very important thing, a plastigauge is not the proper tool to be using to check clearances on a high performance motor, tractors maybe, race motors no.

another thing, sanding the rodcaps without honing the bore to proper size is a bad idea because it would alter the crush on the bearing possibly causing a spun rod bearing, or siezeure.