Bought gauges, need to know what safe readings are:

[VRMAN]

Okay I bought these gauges:

EGT
Water Temp
Oil Temp
Oil Pressure

What SHOULD the gauges read between to mean I am running safe? Any help for each would be great like "EGTs should be between 1500-1600 degrees, lower is too rich and higher is too lean" and so on and so forth. Thanks!

 

[Blk_99gst]

Originally posted by VRMAN
Okay I bought these gauges:
Water Temp
Oil Temp
Oil Pressure

I sure hope you got the electronic gauges; ones that send a signal to the gauge in the passenger compartment. Much easier than mechanical gauges; that way you don't have to run a very hot water line and very hot oil line inside the cabin...

 

[1fast97gsx]

yea I recommend electronic as well.

 

[VRMAN]

Thanks, and they should read....

 

[philipkrotch]

well..egt's shouldnt be higher than 1500 ish, if they are then ur running toi lean...or waaaaaaay to rich, but thats only if u have lots of fuel mods and no tuning. the fuel actually burns through the manifold and makes the egt's hotter. if they coninue to climb up towards 1600, then re-wire your fuel pump and they should hold a steady 1400-1450.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Timing has more to do with EGT's than does fuel. That's why you use an EGT and a wideband to tune fuel and timing.

 

[DSMJim]

First off EGT all depends on where your probe is. If you were smart you would put it in your downpipe and it should read mid 14's but that all depends on your tune.

Mechanical oil temp and pressure are fine in the cabin as well, the nylon line that comes with it is super strong and if installed correctly is not a problem. All it's going to do is leak if you screw it up. I woulnd't want it dripping however it wont hurt anything if it does (other then your leg if it drips on ..

 

[VRMAN]

Thanks, and they should read....

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Safe or not, you are not legal to run at the track with oil or fuel lines inside the cabin. And it is NOT safe, whatsoever. And why would you want your EGT probe in the downpipe? That would be the most retarded thing ever, because you would have no idea what temps are. The best thing you could do is put the probe in the runner of the cylinder at the end of the fuel rail, and you would have the hottest temperature.

With a proper a/f ratio (12:1 or 11.5:1), your egt's should not peak over 850C or 1500F. Oil pressure should be 85psi under load or around, not sure on oil temp, never ran one. Water temp, if it breaks 210-220, is a problem (see: warping heads) You don't want to run over that temp, but they won't wstart causing damage till mid 200.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Originally posted by Mirage2LTurbo
And why would you want your EGT probe in the downpipe? That would be the most retarded thing ever, because you would have no idea what temps are.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

If it's so practical to put it in the downpipe, show me someone who does it. Furthermore, for street tuning, it might work fine, but if you are a more or less track only car (mine, for instance), I want to know EXACTLY what my egt's are. Hence, I have #1 and #4 tapped for probes. Only running it off #1 now, but when the methanol goes in, another probe and gauge will go in #4.

 

[CanadianTSi]

I know for a fact that Jim has his in the DP.

If your probe decided's to break off...where's it gonna go? through the turbo

Also you only really need the EGT to see if your temps ever get higher then your "normal" or "expected" temps.

Now if your normal temp is 1650 in the manifold then it would be about 1450 in the DP. If your Temp gets up over 1700 in the manifold then you know something is wrong, likewise if you temps get up over 1500 in the DP then you know something isn't right.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that: you establish a temperature that is your max and if you exceed that you know there is a problem, the farther away from the combustion chamber the lower the Temp but if your exceeding your highest acceptable temp, you still know that there is a problem...Make Sense?

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by CanadianTSi
Basically what I'm trying to say is that: you establish a temperature that is your max and if you exceed that you know there is a problem, the farther away from the combustion chamber the lower the Temp but if your exceeding your highest acceptable temp, you still know that there is a problem...Make Sense?

What your saying is exactly correct. People have this mis-conception that EGT probes are accurate and they need to be in the exhaust manifold at the runner farthest from the feed. As if the fuel is running low at the last cylinder or something and the injector gets less fuel. This is not true. A 255lph pump is enough for 500whp which means your passing fuel back to the tank unless your running at the limit of your pump. SO this means your rail is always full and at a constant pressure. This means your EGT in each cylinder is not affected by its proximity to the feed on the rail. I have tuned cars with 4 EGT's and they are all different in each cyl, but the readings have no bearing to where the feed and return is.

Mirage2LTurbo, If your a track only car your obviously on stand alone. Set your fuel and timing maps so you make the most HP and ignore what your EGT is (more or less, if you see a crazy number then obviously) and set your car up. Then watch your egt with that particular map and you will see my car is happy at X degrees. It's doens't make any difference where the probe is as long as it's the same all the time when your at WOT. Put the friggin thing in your exhaust tip as long as the reading is the same. Putting it in the manifold will likely end up having your EGT pegged all the time when evrything is fine, if something goes wrong where exactly does the needle go to?

I have also used two EGT probes before and after turbos and the measured difference is generally around 100-150deg.

In my own particular car the probe is right behind the turbo and with mysetup 1400 is where my EGT is at when im at WOT at my shift RPM. As long as it stayes at 1400 then all is good. There is no good reason at all for me to put it in the manifold to see 1650 on the gauge, however their are plenty of bad reasons. Probe breaks goes through your turbo. Car does get hot, well your gauge is pegged you can not tell anyway because it's as high as it can go in the manifold. I don't wanna drill out my new manifold for an EGT if I ever sell it down the road. etc etc etc.. I just doens't make sense.

However this is a free land so feel free to put it where it best suits yourself. Remember this is only MY reasoning why mine is in my downpipe. If your happy with it in your manifold then so be-it. It's your car, your the tuner set it up how it makes you happy.

VRMan, stop asking what it should be. Nobody knows what it should be. It depends on your car. If your having a problem understanding this maybe you should just take the gauges out beacuse they are not going to help you anyway.

 

[forced power]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116765

 

[tsunari]

Here's my reason for putting my next probe in the DP:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116658

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Yes, Autronic. I'm still not convinced of your logic, although I do see your point. I have my fuel and timing maps set up properly, but still want to know what my EGT's are. Putting your sensor farther away allows for more variables to affect the temp the sensor reads. If it's right out of cyl1, the chance of other variables (colder weather, rain, etc) affecting the reading are less. Now moving it from behind the turbo to in front of the turbo, not so much, but still, stick to what you know

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by Mirage2LTurbo
Yes, Autronic. I'm still not convinced of your logic, although I do see your point. I have my fuel and timing maps set up properly, but still want to know what my EGT's are. Putting your sensor farther away allows for more variables to affect the temp the sensor reads. If it's right out of cyl1, the chance of other variables (colder weather, rain, etc) affecting the reading are less. Now moving it from behind the turbo to in front of the turbo, not so much, but still, stick to what you know

Bingo.. If you have the time toss an extra egt in your downpipe and log it with your computer, you'll be surprised how much the same the readings are (just slightly colder).

Really when I say go into the downpipe this is generally for street cars and your not driving your car on the street. The EMS has inputs for 4 EGT probes so I could really put one in each cylinder however I hardly see the point and I really don't use EGT as anything to tune by. It's mostly a "Im racing a Corvette on the highway doing 150mph how's my EGT doing" kinda gauge.

 

[philipkrotch]

Originally posted by Mirage2LTurbo
If it's so practical to put it in the downpipe, show me someone who does it. Furthermore, for street tuning, it might work fine, but if you are a more or less track only car (mine, for instance), I want to know EXACTLY what my egt's are. Hence, I have #1 and #4 tapped for probes. Only running it off #1 now, but when the methanol goes in, another probe and gauge will go in #4.

agreed...and why the fk would putting in the DP benefit??? well, maybe it would leave you with some assurance that you car it running low egt's when really theyre like 200 degrees hotter, it just dont tell u that because by the time the gases are in the DP they have cooled a shitload. hey man, thats your stupid call but i keep mine in the manifold and dont act like a bi*** about "having it break" . it will just give me a good...or better excuse to get a bigge rturbo..and unless your running molten lava out your exhaust, the probe wont go anywhere. they make them to read egt's, which are usually pretty hot, so i bet u they make the probes pretty tough. use your melons.

 

[DSMJim]

agreed...and why the fk would putting in the DP benefit??? well, maybe it would leave you with some assurance that you car it running low egt's when really theyre like 200 degrees hotter, it just dont tell u that because by the time the gases are in the DP they have cooled a shitload. hey man, thats your stupid call but i keep mine in the manifold and dont act like a bi*** about "having it break" . it will just give me a good...or better excuse to get a bigge rturbo..and unless your running molten lava out your exhaust, the probe wont go anywhere. they make them to read egt's, which are usually pretty hot, so i bet u they make the probes pretty tough. use your melons.

I know it's 200 deg hotter and I add that into the equasion when I look at the guage whats so hard about that? Do you have a problem adding 200 to 1300 to know what the number is? Maybe you need to review your math not your egt probe location. Are you seriously dumb enough to think that if I put it down there then see a lower EGT number that I now think it's safer? Seriously do you think that is what I think? I don't acctually add 200 deg to know what it is, I just know that 1400 deg based on my EGT probe location is about right based on my tuning and racing with my car.

READ: It does not matter where it is as long as you have the same reading all the time. Honestly I think they should take the numbers off the gauge totally and just put cold - hot on them. It is not accurate anyways because it all depends on where the probe is. Closer to the head is a higher number so your not reading your combustion temperature at all. The farther you put it away you just assume a lower number.

This is exactly what YOU are doing already. YOU assume your EGT is at 1500 because your probe is 3" from the head when in acctual fact it's higher inside the engine but it has had time to cool once it shoots out the exhaust port. My probe is 8" from the head so I just assme it's a bit colder.

If you think your doing anything different than I am your crazy. You are only assuming what is safe based on your tuning and the distance of your probe from where the combustion is really happening. So am I. As you can see it now does not make any difference where you put it as long as it gives the same reading all the time based on your tuning.

Yeesh.. why do I bother, honestly?

Thats it, im not responding to this thread or question anymore at all. Period end of story.

 

[yo2001]

Mechanical oil temp and pressure are fine in the cabin as well, the nylon line that comes with it is super strong and if installed correctly is not a problem.

But nylon will get brittle and crack eventually. I would recommend copper line.

My EGT is right after the head and 1 inch away from it and I've seen as high as 950C at redline.