Venom Intake Manifold: WOW

[focusedrage]

So I'm looking through summit...

This manifold looks awsome, all polished and such, with no nonsense. Although it says "Only for Drag Racing" whats that about? I appears it will work at any level, no doubt i woudl have to tap soem holes for stuff but it seems cool.

I know this will probly fall under the "waste-of-money-flame-get-a-ported-1g"

 

[tjh-dsm]

Waste of money better intake mani's out there. search around, Venom makes junk for the most part.

 

[xleRateGSX]

venom makes junk? right...

 

[IPT]

I have seen the venom intake and it is not junk!! They have changed teh design from what they were when they first came out. They have a 2.0L phenum and 5" runners. They will make for a streetable intake unlike some of the 4" runners that are out there. I will have some dyno sheets here in the next month or so to see how good (or even bad which I doubt) it is.

 

[NDgsx]

It seems they finally tested their old "mail box" plenums on their race cars and realized that ripping off STR was a dumb idea
I was checking out their cars when they were up here at woodburn, the intake manifolds looked like the ones they are selling now.

 

[NosLaser]

...This manifold looks awsome, all polished and such, with no nonsense....

There's your first problem. The number 1 problem with the import 'go fast' scene is exactly this; people buying parts because they 'look' cool. Form follows function. That aside, I personally feel the Venom is one of the better aftermarket pre-fab manifolds out there, and it is fair at best. Every single manifold I have seen for the DSM has too small of a plenum, and usually too short of runners. If you use the Venom manifold, you will make more power, however, there are many things out there that you should probably consider first well before needing a new intake manifold.

Regards,

 

[evan2]

ive heard only bad things about the venom intake mani..

 

[NosLaser]

Name some of the bad things you heard about the Venom intake manifold. Or are these bad things 'he said that she said' internet nonsense? The internet is the world's largest distributor of false information, hearsay, and B.S. "I'll never use that part because I heard in some chat room somewhere, that someone's cousin's friend knew a guy that was thinking about buying it, but that guy heard on a forum about this girl's boyfriend that almost bought it, but said it really sucked. Not that *I* personally have any clue what the product is, nor how it works of course."



Let me use the typical internet response for this: "Brent Rau ran bottom 9's with the Venom intake manifold."

Regards,

 

[TurboSpoolinIns]

Originally posted by NosLaser
Name some of the bad things you heard about the Venom intake manifold. Or are these bad things 'he said that she said' internet nonsense? The internet is the world's largest distributor of false information, hearsay, and B.S. "I'll never use that part because I heard in some chat room somewhere, that someone's cousin's friend knew a guy that was thinking about buying it, but that guy heard on a forum about this girl's boyfriend that almost bought it, but said it really sucked. Not that *I* personally have any clue what the product is, nor how it works of course."



Let me use the typical internet response for this: "Brent Rau ran bottom 9's with the Venom intake manifold."

Regards,

That was dumb. If people want to say what they heard, I think its fine. It depends on how the person reading it, takes in the information. There have been things that have been proven like the Magnus intake manifold out there. Test it, if it works for you, then maybe a few more will try it. Other than that, if no one is using it, maybe it's saying something about the product (that its a POS) though, i do know it recently came out, so whoever does have some experienced info on the Venom, i'd say, shoot and tell us what you've done with it.

 

[NosLaser]

...That was dumb. If people want to say what they heard, I think its fine....

You totally and completely missed the scope of my post. Entirely. The problem is, people don't come on and say 'I heard the Venom intake manifold is bad because X,Y,Z' They come on and say 'The Venom Intake manifold sucks!!!' '''well, why does it suck?''' 'I dunno, I don't know anything about it...it just sucks.' Do you see the difference? Please tell me you do before you call me 'dumb.'
...so whoever does have some experienced info on the Venom, i'd say, shoot and tell us what you've done with it....

That would be MUCH more useful than passing along bad 'internet' information.

Regards,

 

[4ged4G63]

well I have some questions.

I have been thinkking about getting one of these nice big intake manifolds but (and I hate to say this) I have been told that one will lose low end power because of the size of the manifold but gain it in top end. That coupled with a big turbo(say...the Green) would yeild in lots of lag no? Another question I have is someone mentioned that the runners arn't long enough. Why do they need to be longer?

 

[NDgsx]

I know when Marco tested his sheetmetal intake almost no bottom end power was lost. It was only noticable on the dyno.
Runner length in a nutshell tunes the manifold for a specific rpm. Stock runners are tuned to make peak power at 6,200rpm.

 

[NosLaser]

...I have been thinkking about getting one of these nice big intake manifolds but (and I hate to say this) I have been told that one will lose low end power because of the size of the manifold but gain it in top end. That coupled with a big turbo(say...the Green) would yeild in lots of lag no? Another question I have is someone mentioned that the runners arn't long enough. Why do they need to be longer?...

You actually asked a VERY valid question. It's not the size of the manifold that really affects the power band (it WILL however affect overall power) but rather the length of the runners. Shorter runners will yield higher end power at the expense of low end torque; longer runners help increase low end power at the expense of a bit compromised top end power. This is my major gripe about the Magnus manifolds. They make more power than stock, however the plenum is a bit on the small side, and you have to rev it quite high to realize power gains. Without a beefy valvetrain and bottom end, you are asking for more trouble the higher the revs get. I'd rather have a car that makes decent low end power and gobs of midrange where it is especially useful in a real world driving situation. Another problem is the DSM trannies don't like to shift so well at those rpm either, so that is merely icing on the cake. I will say this with a grain of salt; you could make the same HP most of the Magnus-manifold cars are making at a much lower rpm. Of course wth a 4 cylinder, you have to rev high to get big power, but most of those cars aren't quite at that level (8-900HP) I can already feel the flames burning.

Regards,

 

[mclaren55]

So my peak power of 526.6WHP is able to be attained at a "much lower RPM" then 7250? Firstly, my car does rev to 8500rpm, and yes I have a beefed up valvetrain. I think that peak power isn't to bad where it sits, my rpms never drop below 6200rpm anyways, thus I am always in my powerband. So please explain how you could make the same power at a much lower rpm?

Not flaming, just asking a simple question.

*EDIT*
Also, you make this claim of being able to realize as much, if not more power then the "Magnus manifold" cars, at a much lower rpm. Where is the proof? Or are we speaking strictly theoretically again?

 

[NosLaser]

Actually, I am speaking more theoretically than from specific examples of other people's cars. My car made peak HP at a little over 5800rpm (423 wheel HP) and had great area under the curve. The point of that being that a car that makes power through a wider range of rpm doesn't need to make as much power as a car that has a peakier power band. If I'm making more power than you from 2500-5500 rpm I will get through my powerband quicker, and chances are my car will be faster. If you are making peak power at 7250, then you are actually doing pretty good. I would have to see more examples of Magnus cars but if my memory serves me correctly, most make peak power much higher than you are. (If I am wrong, then I stand corrected.) If you make peak power at 7250, why do you shift at 8500? I mean unless you don't really make much power until like 6 grand and you have to milk a tiny power band, then it would be understandable, but you may be shifting a bit high. Like I said in my post, take it with a grain of salt. There are ways to do it, however, it would be very difficul to explain and I'd take more flames along the way than I would care to contend with.

Regards,

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by 4ged4G63
well I have some questions.

I have been thinkking about getting one of these nice big intake manifolds but (and I hate to say this) I have been told that one will lose low end power because of the size of the manifold but gain it in top end. That coupled with a big turbo(say...the Green) would yeild in lots of lag no? Another question I have is someone mentioned that the runners arn't long enough. Why do they need to be longer?

Mike... Talk to Nick on the SW List as to why he *hated* his ven. manifold.

 

[focusedrage]

thanks for all the advice, and trust me i wouldent buy it for looks... but it looked like a box with 4 pipes coming out and thats it so it seemed to look like it had some performance value. All this talk about power bands... is it safe to say that the addition of this manifold wouldnt be detrimental, that it coudl only help? or will it shift the power band way high? which woudl provide lots of midrange power as with the stock power band?

ps... i would think puttign a NOS sticker on the mani would probly add a couple of hp...

 

[mclaren55]

Well, what is a tiny powerband in your terms? I make over 500WHP from 6000-8500rpm, and it is a very stable, linear, nice powerband. I shift that high, because I like getting every ounce of power out, and if I had to shift lower, I wouldn't be able to shift quick enough. I can shift higher then that, the car was built for 9500rpm, and somehow, my tranny is able to keep up (stock, completely.). Maybe it is just cause I don't bang gears? Anyways, did your car make that 423whp on nitrous? Just asking, I am thinking your name refers to nitrous .

 

[focusedrage]

my name? huh... i dont get it, its an old screen name, i use it every where cause its easy to remeber... anyway im thinking of a reasonable power band for the street like say form 3 to 7, with the meat ata bout 5 or 6 i guess thats like the stock? I probly will build my car for about 300 to 400 hp, for a road race set up. Is this mani just unnessasary for the cost?

 

[tjh-dsm]

Let me reiterate:

Venom's intake mani (the initial one) was a POS compared to the other's out there made by the reputable DSM shops (Magnus for one). If they've made a new one, that may be different, although Venom DID make the Venom 400 "blow your motor" control module, which is why I said they make junk "for the most part".

 

[focusedrage]

thanks

 

[4ged4G63]

ok so longer runners will make power lower down. ?? So, if I was running a turbo that had some lag or made full spool around 5k(can't remember exactly) then using an upgraded sheetmetal intake mani with long runners then I won't be sacrificing response and low end power as much and since I would be using a big turbo and higher lift cams(264/272 I/E) then my low end power wouldn't suffer as much and I would actually see some gain from the manifold? Is this basically what is being said short of the fact that there is always tuning that needs to be thrown down on the table as well as some other factors. ??

oh yeah, who makes an upgraded sheetmetal manifold with long runners? And what about Extrude Hone(intake mani)? Does that make enough difference to justify the price?

 

[NosLaser]

...Well, what is a tiny powerband in your terms? I make over 500WHP from 6000-8500rpm, and it is a very stable, linear, nice powerband. I shift that high, because I like getting every ounce of power out, and if I had to shift lower, I wouldn't be able to shift quick enough. I can shift higher then that, the car was built for 9500rpm, and somehow, my tranny is able to keep up (stock, completely.). Maybe it is just cause I don't bang gears?...

You want to shoot for about 4000 rpm worth of truly useable powerband, regardless of if that powerband is from 2000-6000 rpm, or 4000-8000 rpm. 60-1's tend to be rather peaky turbos, and it seems like you are doing better than most, but still have a sweet spot of only about 2500rpm. Not knocking your car at all because it is actually very impressive.

...Anyways, did your car make that 423whp on nitrous? Just asking, I am thinking your name refers to nitrous...

Yes, that was with a small 16g (unclipped) and an 80 shot dry kit.

Regards,

 

[mclaren55]

Well usually sprayed cars have more torque, and generate more power lower. At least when it is somewhat of a large part of the power. I am sure when I spray, besides having a higher peak power, I will have a broader torque and hp curve. However, yes the 60-1 is somewhat peaky, but it is a drag car. I built the car for a purpose, and it rev's higher because I built it to. Why not rev higher, and maximize gearing and power? Its like buying a massive house, and using 2 rooms in it. Also, I don't run cam gears, if I did, I believe I could move the band back a bit more. When I put them on, I will let you know what happens.

 

[NosLaser]

You definitely don't have to justify anything else to me; the more I learn about your car the more impressed I am by it. You are on a great track, and I wish you luck with it.

Regards,