Tuning: DSMlink versus DSMchip & S-AFCII?

[Groomz]

I already have a Palmpilot and a datalogger for it. I used to have a 12 second 90 AWD but am now the owner of a stock 95 FWD turbo. My realistic goal is somewhere between 350-400whp. I would like to know if I can safely use a DSMchip with all the correct compensations ( injector size etc... ) and a S-AFCII to make this kind of power? I do not believe I would be able to fully use a DSMlink so it makes sense to me to just use the simpler chip/S-AFCII combo. Am I right or misguided? Thanks for any help.

 

[1fast97gsx]

yea that'll do you just fine. 90% of people I know with dsms DON'T use dsmlink just because it's NOT NECESSARY until you start getting way up there in the power department. Safc will be fine ... dsmlink is always better

 

[brads]

You might save a couple hundred bucks doing it the safc way, but you won't have access to knock for logging, and you will still be logging at the slow OBD-2 rate.

Any sort of fine tuning you do with the AFC still has the potential to affect timing and fuel at the same time, but it won't be nearly as much of a problem as without the dsmchips chip. You will be at the max airflow part of the timing table pretty much anytime you are in boost(assuming you make close to the HP you are looking for), and won't be able to adjust your timing with the AFC without a MAJOR adjustment to it. So in other words, your timing will be fixed to that one part of the timing table at high boost, you can't even adjust the base timing, like a 1G can.

Then there are all the other cool features you get with dsmlink, and you don't have to do as much wiring as the AFC would require. I'd go with dsmlink still, even if it was a couple hundred extra. You can sell your logger (but keep the Palm) to get some money back.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by brads
You might save a couple hundred bucks doing it the safc way, but you won't have access to knock for logging, and you will still be logging at the slow OBD-2 rate.

Any sort of fine tuning you do with the AFC still has the potential to affect timing and fuel at the same time, but it won't be nearly as much of a problem as without the dsmchips chip. You will be at the max airflow part of the timing table pretty much anytime you are in boost(assuming you make close to the HP you are looking for), and won't be able to adjust your timing with the AFC without a MAJOR adjustment to it. So in other words, your timing will be fixed to that one part of the timing table at high boost, you can't even adjust the base timing, like a 1G can.

Then there are all the other cool features you get with dsmlink, and you don't have to do as much wiring as the AFC would require. I'd go with dsmlink still, even if it was a couple hundred extra. You can sell your logger (but keep the Palm) to get some money back.

Good info. I think that I would basically be paying 300$ with an AFC just to make minor adjustments in the fuel, where I should really be concerned with timing and knock. Thanks.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

http://www.dsmchips.com/2g.html

They have a modified 2G ECU that turns the stock boost gauge into knock sensor. I just ordered one last week with my injectors compensation, raised rev limit and injector pulse compensation. I have a SAFC2 to run along with it. Since you have a 95, you don't need to spend the extra 250 bux for a EPROM ECU. (I did..), so cost to you is $125... If you decide later to go to DSMLink, you already have the EPROM ECU and you can sell your SAFC2...

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by RuBiCaNT5X
http://www.dsmchips.com/2g.html

They have a modified 2G ECU that turns the stock boost gauge into knock sensor. I just ordered one last week with my injectors compensation, raised rev limit and injector pulse compensation. I have a SAFC2 to run along with it. Since you have a 95, you don't need to spend the extra 250 bux for a EPROM ECU. (I did..), so cost to you is $125... If you decide later to go to DSMLink, you already have the EPROM ECU and you can sell your SAFC2...

I forgot it had that feature. Of course it won't give me raw numbers like a DSMlink will, but doesn't it move based on knock sum? So if its below 7 counts, it only moves to X location, and so on? If I were going all out, I would like the DSMlink ( even over a standalone ) but it seems like its overkill. Since I can monitor timing and if I see knock on the gauge I can make it work. Thanks for that info too.

 

[brads]

The problem with that is that you can't log the knock, so it makes it harder to try to correlate it to what you are seeing in your logs, especially when you are limited to logging only a few things with the OBD-2 loggers. It makes it tough to tell if the knock is sustained for a range of rpm, or if it is a momentary thing that occurs, then falls back to zero quickly, try reading the gauge to discern that during a WOT pull.

Getting it on a logger so that you only have to concentrate on driving is good. The 350-400whp target goal you have is a pretty quick car. Mine is in that ballpark, and I prefer keeping my eyes on the road while going WOT, then looking at logs after the fact.

Brad

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by brads
The problem with that is that you can't log the knock, so it makes it harder to try to correlate it to what you are seeing in your logs, especially when you are limited to logging only a few things with the OBD-2 loggers. It makes it tough to tell if the knock is sustained for a range of rpm, or if it is a momentary thing that occurs, then falls back to zero quickly, try reading the gauge to discern that during a WOT pull.

Getting it on a logger so that you only have to concentrate on driving is good. The 350-400whp target goal you have is a pretty quick car. Mine is in that ballpark, and I prefer keeping my eyes on the road while going WOT, then looking at logs after the fact.

Brad

That was the only drawback I could think of other than the slow rate datalogging of a pocketlogger and the ability to only log a few different parameters. I added it up this way and this is what I got:

DSMchip - 125$
Socketting - 50$?
Apex-i S-AFCII - 340$

About 520$ unless you can find a better deal.

A DSMlink setup is 645$ plus a laptop to work with it. Probably around 100$ surfing Ebay. The extra 200$ spent gets me more logging capability and knock logging, along with full timing control and injector setup and all the other great things a DSMlink does.

My 2G also pulls timing regularly because it thinks it hear knock, and the DSMlink lets me define when the knock sensor is used based on throttle and RPM. I really don't need a gauge to tell me its pulling timing because I can feel it so much when it happens. I do have horrible lifter tick though, which is definitely the cause. Getting rid of the lifter tick and phantom knock, is it still worth having a DSMlink? Probably.

Just to ask, do you guys think I can put down 375whp on 20psi with the DSMchips & S-AFCII combo?

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

I got my new SAFC2 for 260.. $340 is pretty damn expensive...

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by RuBiCaNT5X
I got my new SAFC2 for 260.. $340 is pretty damn expensive...

From who? That is definitely the best price so far. I posted 340$ just because thats what they usually run. Anything to help me save money is definitely worth it.