Head Gasket Help

[1996Eclipse420a]

Alright, so I've ran into a problem. Remember when I said I had the block decked, well I don't think it was, even though it was suppose to be.

Here are a couple of pictures, one of the head being surfaced and then the block.


Maybe the block wasn't decked because it didn't need it... but is there a good way I can tell if it's smooth enough to seal a MLS?

 

[dsmcurse]

straight edge with a pair of feeler gauges. looks like it could use a bit better of a cleaning

 

[Cdc1221]

Amen to that. Pretty head though. If nothing else, use a long 3/8" extension

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

yeah, I agree. So just lay a straight edge across all four flat surfaces and use a feeler gauge to check it?

also, if it's slightly off, would it still seal or would you recommend just going and getting a composite?

 

[dsmcurse]

i would straight edge it and check with feeler gauges. post back what you found out.

 

[BogusSVO]

I can not see the finish pattern on the head. A closer pic of the surface would help.

Now from what I can see on the block, I would say it needs surfaced.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The red lines show where it looks like there are dings and gouges.

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

Bogus I'm going to see what kind of shape the block is in. If I'm lucky then I may just be able to clean it up, on the other hand I may as well take it back and have it surfaced if it needs it.... if not, I'll just go with a composite gasket (if they hold up well.)

I'll try to get a better picture of the head, but I think it looks pretty nice

also, what is the copper coating people use on these MLS gaskets to help them seal?

also, I might add that the 420a comes with a MLS factory... I've never had any HG leaks prior to rebuilding my motor.... besides the one factory defect that a lot of 420a's had due to the hole not being deep enough to torque that side of the head down properly.

 

[RallyEclipse98]

Definitely spray it with permatex copper coat. And the torque specs are different when using a MLS head gasket for the 420a than what the FSM states (been updated since written). Bullett posted the proper specs on 2gnt.com so do a little searching.

And if I were you I wouldn't cheap out and not do the resurfacing just in case. You went to all the work to rip the engine apart, now just don't cheap out and have the possibility of having to rip it all apart again in 10k miles.

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

thanks for the post Rally. I'm also using ARP Headstuds for the head because I'm putting a turbo on it. I've had a lot of machine work done, from the head, to the block, and the crank. Why he didn't deck the block confuses me because I had it checked off on the sheet.

Also, I may as well take it back, but I do know for sure 420a's come with MLS HG factory, and the last one sealed well when I had the head shaved.

First things first though, I'm going to check it with a straightedge first.

 

[RallyEclipse98]

The FSM will tell you how to check it with a straight edge. And I would definitely tell the mechanic to re-do the job if you feel he did not. It's easy to make mistakes and "professionals" seem to make mistakes on my watch all the time so I'm usually skeptical of others' work.

I'm about to do my head gasket and I have done a lot of research. It looks like we are both on the same page.

 

[BogusSVO]

Here these may help.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/452489-backyard-straight-edge.html#post153147462

This shows a head, but the same procedure for a block

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341627-how-check-head-warp.html

 

[bullettdsm]

Hmm, you paid somebody to deck the block and its obviously not done? You have the block in your hands without doing any work yet.

Sorry, I fail to see the conflict here. Bring the block back to the machine shop and ask them to explain. If they say,"We checked your block and it is fine" (which I don't really like. Its not that our blocks generally need it. They actually rarely do. But I know that I would have at least "block sanded" to check for low spots), say fine then I'd like my price adjusted accordingly. If they say,"Oops, we screwed up" then have them look at it.

As for copper spray; I've never seen the need to use it on two properly faced block and head. But I have used it (for experimenting purposes; to see if it causes a problem) with no negative affects.

MB

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

Thanks Bogus, and Bullet I'm going back to talk to him tomorrow after work. Also, the block doesn't even look like this now. I've cleaned it up really well, it looks like the head . I'll post back and let you guys know what my machinist said.

I have one more question for you guys as well. What's the torque specs for stock OEM Main Bolts?

 

[bullettdsm]

I have one more question for you guys as well. What's the torque specs for stock OEM Main Bolts?

55 for the mains (the bigger bolts around the crank) and 21 for the outers (the smaller bolts on the exterior of the bedplate.

MB

 

[RallyEclipse98]

55 for the mains (the bigger bolts around the crank) and 21 for the outers (the smaller bolts on the exterior of the bedplate.

MB

I'm calling you out bullett! All in good fun of course, I have nothing but respect.

2GNT.com Forums - Printer friendly page, topic ID #132362 -

Just yesterday I read a post of yours from the thread linked above. You said the revised torque specs were 50 long, 35 short. Yet in this current thread we are writing in, you said the specs are 55 long, 21 short.

So which is correct?

Your 2gnt post was from '07 so maybe you have some new information since then.

And this well trusted write-up uses your '07 torque specs: http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=A_Proper_Rebuild

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

doesn't 21 seem a little low? the 50/35 looks more realistic

 

[bullettdsm]

I'm calling you out bullett! All in good fun of course, I have nothing but respect.

2GNT.com Forums - Printer friendly page, topic ID #132362 -

Just yesterday I read a post of yours from the thread linked above. You said the revised torque specs were 50 long, 35 short. Yet in this current thread we are writing in, you said the specs are 55 long, 21 short.

So which is correct?

Your 2gnt post was from '07 so maybe you have some new information since then.

And this well trusted write-up uses your '07 torque specs: 2GNT.com - A_Proper_Rebuild

Haha, ok. No problem. I've been known to misread something or flip flop something in my addled brain. BUT I'm gonna give you a chance to re-read what torque spec the OP was really asking for .

MB

Oh, and OP, if you really meant HEAD BOLTS, then you can follow the link that Rally posted,

 

[1996Eclipse420a]

sorry for the late reply guys. I got it now bullet You were talking about head bolts in that old post. I'm using ARP Head Studs though

So, youre previous post was correct. Thanks for all the info. Very appreciated. Car is almost complete, just some engine bay cleaning before the motor is put in.

 

[RallyEclipse98]

Head bolts, head studs, main bolts, I guess I was confused after being on the forums for like 3 hours straight that day. I'm about to do a head gasket change and I've been re-checking all my torque specs and preparing probably too much ha.