Been waiting a while to ask these questions

[chris712vt]

Alright guys, I'll try not to throw out too many questions here or bore you all to death. But I'm getting closer to being ready for boost. I've done lots of reading, searching here, learning, etc. You can look at my profile and see my current setup, all that matters is in there at least, didn't bother adding exterior or audio mods on there

Alright where should I start? I know the Hahn kit has the best reputation and so many of you guys use it, but let's put Hahn, Star, and Treadstone aside for now. I like features of the Slowboy/Concept Illusions kits much more. I'll break it down:

Garrett 57 trim turbo
Turbonetics log-style manifold
Tial 38mm wastegate
Greddy type RS BOV
big 24x12x3.5 FMIC
SS IC piping
SS DP
Walbro 255
SAFC-II
Accell 550s

Now, let me analyze what is included in this kit, please let me know if you agree with me, have any suggestions, advice, input, whatever. BTW, I don't have a specific hp number in mind, my goal is to have a well built, tuned, powerful 420 DSM. So with that said, I want to push 20-25psi on pump gas, but I don't "need to have 400 whp!!" It would be nice but my goal is solid performance, not just a number.

On to my thoughts on the SBR/CI turbo kit. (A) I like Garrett turbos, great reputation, good technology, but I would like to upgrade to a BB 60 trim. My motor is built for it, and since I plan to run decent boost with a good tune, I think the larger turbo will be a better choice. Next, (B) after reading about Paul's cast manifold and checking out the design, I without a doubt want one of those rather than any log-style manifold. (C) good wastegate, wouldn't change it. (D) I have no problem with the Greddy RS, but if I choose to piece together my own setup rather than a turbo kit I will probably opt for the HKS SSQV. (E) the intercooler looks nice, but as others have said before that I saw while searching it comes with straight pipes, angled couplers, etc. I like the FMIC but if I got one of these kits I would probably go with the non-intercooled version and get another FMIC separate and have custom piping made. I've got a couple friends, one of which owns it, who work at a performance shop a couple hours down the road that can do all the piping in house. (F) downpipe looks good, but like I said above, if I choose not to buy a turbo kit, I can have my buddy's shop fab one. (G) 255 is good, SAFC is bad for our cars right? and as far as I know the Accell 550s would be good injectors to support what I want, correct? I plan on going with MSnS anyway so I would not get the "fuel upgrade option" with any kit anyway because they are overpriced and I don't need an SAFC.

In case you didn't read the above paragraph, A B E and G are points I would like to change about the kit for my personal setup. Like I said please let me know how you all think about this kit and the rest of what I said. Feel free to use the letters as references, that why I wrote it like that.

Lastly (for now), since I like the Garrett Ball Bearing turbo idea, do any of you know a lot about their lines of turbos? Is a GT2860R what I'm looking for, or what? They have so many variations it's hard for me to understand fully. Based on the strength of my bottom end, the amount of air my head and cams are meant to flow, and the boost level I want to be at, what do YOU think is a good option? 57 trim and 60 trim seem simple enough until you dig deeper, there are 60 trims in the GT25, GT28, GT30, and GT35 families I'm pretty sure, and there's variations of each. I need to learn more about trim levels and A/Rs and what not, but please help me out if you can. Also would a Garrett BB 60 trim turbo be comparable to a Turbonetics T3/T04E or B turo? That had been my 1st choice a while back.

Sorry for so much length in a single post guys, I just wanted to analyze my options and my goals with you all, and let you know exactly what I have, what I want, and what I think I know so you can better help me and anyone else who benefits from this thread. Thanks!!

 

[knight007]

looks like you definetly researched. few suggestions the greddy rs leaks from what ive heard so i say go with the hks, as for the downpipe you can get that and the wastegate dump tube from treadstone they sell it seperately from the kit but besides that looks good

 

[BigRand]

The RS is fine if you can equalize the pressure on the top of the bov, a lot of people don't realize you can do it but i've never had any troubles with it when I was at 12lbs (However I'm refering to the type S, but to me they are made the same way.)

I have a nipple that was plumped into my piping I believe inbetween my bov and TB.....with a hose going from the nipple to the nipple on the back side of the bov (there should be two).....essentially it keeps the bov closed using a small amount of pressurized air during boost, and when you let off, it lets off accordingly......If anyone see's any problem with this setup please speak, because it was reccomended to me by a shop manager back in the day. (I'm open to critisim)

P.S. (schools out for me, all spelling just left my mind)

 

[totaleclipse_05]

The RS only has 1 nipple on it compared to the Type-S which has 2.

 

[XMasta19]

The answer is obvious here...build your own kit

 

[chris712vt]

The answer is obvious here...build your own kit

Haha yeah man I started to realize that as I was typing all that and really laying all my thoughts out. It's just that this will be my first time going through a whole "turbo conversion" and I want to make sure I am choosing the right parts, and good quality stuff that will work together to make a good car. And most importantly I don't want to be forgetting about anything or overlooking anything.

Many of you know way more than I do about turbocharging in general, and about 420As and how they respond to different things. And I trust advice you give to people and learn from it so I just wanted to share my project with everyone here.

Aside from the Greddy vs. HKS BOV, any other thoughts guys? I really want to know what you all have to say about the turbo itself.

 

[chris712vt]

oh and another thing to you specifically Xavier, I just now looked at your mods profile. 2 things came to mind - do you have a video that I could hear how your SSQV sounds on our motor? I know the Greddy and HKS both have great quality and reputations, but I think the SSQV sounds way better than the RS or S. Just hoping I could hear yours because I have never heard what the SSQV sounds like on our cars.

The other thing, you have a Garrett Super 60-Trim turbo? Ironically that sounds very much like the size turbo I want and that I was trying to describe above. Is yours a GT2860R or what?

 

[BigRand]

You seem to know what you want...here is a question I do have...are you planning on running MSnS right when you go turbo, because if not, your gonna need an FMU to run the stock injectors for boost....and when you switch to MS your going to want to have a 1:1 regulator on hand. I didn't see either of those mentioned so I was curiouis?

 

[chris712vt]

Yes, I do plan to get MS at the same time as the rest of my turbo-related parts. I have thought about getting it sooner actually because my car doesn't run as smoothly as I'd like right now with the cams and low compression and all while NA, and I thought maybe it could help the motor out as well as let me start learning MS before it's time to turbo.

Also, thank you for pointing out the need for the 1:1 fpr. That is one of those things that I was forgetting about right now so thank you. I don't know a whole lot about the regulators to be honest. If you were using an FMU, would you need a 12:1 rising rate or something to control the pressure, but with MS fuel pressure is just part of the tuning process?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I suggest you install MS either before or after the turbo... if you do it all at the same time, chances are you'll become overwhelmed. Also, if something isn't working right, you'll have a hard time troubleshooting because you won't be familiar with any part of the new setup yet. If you at least have the turbocharger already installed, and something acts up, you'll know enough about the turbosystem to what is, and what isn't characteristic of forced induction. The same goes for if you have MS installed first.

 

[chris712vt]

that's a good point that hadn't even crossed my mind. I'll have to see how close or how far away this project really is and decide if I can afford the time and money to dive into MS ahead of time. Otherwise what is a good option for tuning? FMU, 12:1, stock injectors (and if so about when would they be maxed out, aka when would I need to upgrade before continuing on)?

 

[Shadow98]

Do go past 8 psi on a 255 pump, stock injectors, and 12:1 fmu.

 

[chris712vt]

I'm assuming you meant to say DON'T go beyond 8psi?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Correct.

 

[eclipsers-t]

On to my thoughts on the SBR/CI turbo kit. (A) I like Garrett turbos, great reputation, good technology, but I would like to upgrade to a BB 60 trim. My motor is built for it, and since I plan to run decent boost with a good tune, I think the larger turbo will be a better choice. Next, (B) after reading about Paul's cast manifold and checking out the design, I without a doubt want one of those rather than any log-style manifold. (C) good wastegate, wouldn't change it. (D) I have no problem with the Greddy RS, but if I choose to piece together my own setup rather than a turbo kit I will probably opt for the HKS SSQV. (E) the intercooler looks nice, but as others have said before that I saw while searching it comes with straight pipes, angled couplers, etc. I like the FMIC but if I got one of these kits I would probably go with the non-intercooled version and get another FMIC separate and have custom piping made. I've got a couple friends, one of which owns it, who work at a performance shop a couple hours down the road that can do all the piping in house. (F) downpipe looks good, but like I said above, if I choose not to buy a turbo kit, I can have my buddy's shop fab one. (G) 255 is good, SAFC is bad for our cars right? and as far as I know the Accell 550s would be good injectors to support what I want, correct? I plan on going with MSnS anyway so I would not get the "fuel upgrade option" with any kit anyway because they are overpriced and I don't need an SAFC.

In case you didn't read the above paragraph, A B E and G are points I would like to change about the kit for my personal setup. Like I said please let me know how you all think about this kit and the rest of what I said. Feel free to use the letters as references, that why I wrote it like that.

Lastly (for now), since I like the Garrett Ball Bearing turbo idea, do any of you know a lot about their lines of turbos? Is a GT2860R what I'm looking for, or what? They have so many variations it's hard for me to understand fully. Based on the strength of my bottom end, the amount of air my head and cams are meant to flow, and the boost level I want to be at, what do YOU think is a good option? 57 trim and 60 trim seem simple enough until you dig deeper, there are 60 trims in the GT25, GT28, GT30, and GT35 families I'm pretty sure, and there's variations of each. I need to learn more about trim levels and A/Rs and what not, but please help me out if you can. Also would a Garrett BB 60 trim turbo be comparable to a Turbonetics T3/T04E or B turo? That had been my 1st choice a while back.

Four of the seven point you made are changes to the SBR/CI kit. I would reccommend building your own, so you can buy what you want and not spend excessive amounts of money on items you do not want.

You can go to Garrett's website for information about turbochargers and the differences. It helped me out when I was looking for a turbo and it is a great guide.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/tech_center.html

Good Luck!

 

[XMasta19]

Ok...here we go:

As far as the turbo goes. I had a Garret T3 Super 60 Trim. It's the T3 with a .48a/r turbine side, and .60a/r compressor. From all your mods, I would recommend something a bit bigger. If you want the best of the best, then the Garrett GT technology is the newest out there. After taking plenty of time with compressor maps etc, I really do like the 3082R (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/m...D&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-032&Category_Code=GRT).

I actually do happen to have a short vid of when I was blowing up my first stock bottom end z. You can hear me blow-off once before fading into the background as I began to choke on the smoke hahaha. (http://xmasta19.com/boom.wmv) Pay attention, it goes by quick.

When it comes to the fuel setup etc. I'm gonna have to say that you should pick up a 12:1 fmu for cheap from the forums or somethin to start out with. Run the stock injectors and the fmu (with walbro 255 of course) until you know you have everything set with the turbo install itself. Then move up to the megasquirt and bigger injectors, in which my preference would be the siemens dekas (http://www.racetronix.com/ | http://www.racetronix.com/3145FM.html).


Ok...I'm a bit exhausted now

 

[chris712vt]

Thanks guys! Good links and advice.

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Jamie made a nice fuel writeup that you should check out for a basic fmu setup:

http://www.dsm-ezine.com/sleeper5_stage_1.html

 

[XMasta19]

Thanks guys! Good links and advice.

I do what I can z...