GT30R & tune or Megasquirt!!!

[clipsit]

Hey guys...don't know if this is thread worthy, but I talked to Rand a while ago about either going with a ball bearing turbo and retuning and possibly get bigger injectors or go with Megasquirt? I guess this is an opinion, but I found an awesome deal on an ATP GT30R ball bearing turbo. I was planning on going Mega this summer anyways, but was wondering if putting the bigger turbo on an retuning would be more worth while then going Mega now. Any suggestions or opinions are welcome. I personally am thinking of getting the turbo then mega, but I want to hear some peoples opinions first. Thanks. All of my mods are in my profile. Have at it.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

What fuel system do you have now? IF you have an FMU i would go fuel first then turbo. You could always buy the turbo and leave it in the box till you get the proper fuel system to support it.

Terry

 

[selmerguy]

What fuel system do you have now? IF you have an FMU i would go fuel first then turbo. You could always buy the turbo and leave it in the box till you get the proper fuel system to support it.

Terry

Thats like buying a kid candy in may and telling them they have to wait till Christmas to eat it. But I agree.

 

[clipsit]

What fuel system do you have now? IF you have an FMU i would go fuel first then turbo. You could always buy the turbo and leave it in the box till you get the proper fuel system to support it.

I have an SAFC-II, 550cc's, SARD fpr...I know I may have to possibly get bigger injectors w/ that setup for the GT30R...Thanks guys

 

[XMasta19]

hmm...why does that sound weird to me

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Because with injectors that big he is pulling so much fuel that the timing is advancing, leaving him open to a great deal of knock potential. This is a known issue with using an AFC on a 2GNT ECU. The RPM bins should not be pulling more than -10%, any farther and the ECU begins to advance the timing map to the point you are risking the "deadly Knock." Our ECU's rely heavily onthe map sensor to determine the timing advancement map for loads on the drivetrain, this is the reason Apexi does not recommend using it on our car. They are very well aware that it can physically be connected but do not want users pulling so much fuel that damage occurs.

Using the AFC to fine tune spots is fine but using it run large injectors is a no-no.

With 550cc injectors the fuel pressure has to be dropped to such a low PSI (<20psi) that the spray pattern begin to become affected and atomization begins to suffer.

Well known rule of thumb is not to go larger than 450cc with that setup. On a friends car we couldnt get 440cc injectors to idle correctly, on mine 450cc worked okay but I would not go as far as to say they worked great.

Terry

 

[XMasta19]

that's why

 

[clipsit]

So you are telling that I should go with megasquirt, right? Thanks Terry, I think I might go with the MSD-DIS like Rand has, so I can take timing out, to be safe...what do you think about that?

 

[selmerguy]

So you are telling that I should go with megasquirt, right? Thanks Terry, I think I might go with the MSD-DIS like Rand has, so I can take timing out, to be safe...what do you think about that?

Megasquirt controls spark if you want it to. So I think the mds would not be worth it. There comes a time in every tuners life where bolt ons just cant do it. Then you have to step up to the plate and make a choice. What ems do you want to go with. Then you have to find out what supporting mods go with that ems. Sounds like you are at that point.

 

[clipsit]

Megasquirt controls spark if you want it to. So I think the mds would not be worth it. There comes a time in every tuners life where bolt ons just cant do it. Then you have to step up to the plate and make a choice. What ems do you want to go with. Then you have to find out what supporting mods go with that ems. Sounds like you are at that point.

True...but what about trying some kind of water injection or methanol? This is something that I could do myself...And my GF's brother has done it on his Vr-4, himself. I have been thinking of going with Mega, and I thank all you guys, but I just want to know if maybe this will work? Thanks guys!!! Looks like Mega is in my near future!!!

 

[dieselgeek]

True...but what about trying some kind of water injection or methanol? This is something that I could do myself...And my GF's brother has done it on his Vr-4, himself. I have been thinking of going with Mega, and I thank all you guys, but I just want to know if maybe this will work? Thanks guys!!! Looks like Mega is in my near future!!!

send me a PM when you're ready to order parts, I'll help you pick out the right stuff for the DSM setup. www.diyautotune.com is my favorite place to get either a kit, or a pre--assembled unit, there are other vendors as well but Jerry has a decent "howto" on his website also.

-scott

 

[clipsit]

Thanks Scott...I will let you know.

 

[XMasta19]

we have our own sources scott...no need to go through some website

 

[dieselgeek]

we have our own sources scott...no need to go through some website

Actually, that's now changed - B&G can't keep up with the individual orders, so they're *requiring* you to purchase the parts, kits, or assembled units through either DIYautotune.com, glensgarage.com, or a few other minor vendors. At over 10,000 units per year, MS is the fastest growing standalone by far....


I was just saying, when it's time to buy MS parts, you have a lot to choose from. The right combo for a 4G63 or 420NT is a Megasquirt-I (not II!) running the reflashed "MSnS-Extra" firmware, mounted on a version 3 (not 2.2!) circuit board. This is what I meant by "helping."

-scott

 

[XMasta19]

hmm....that sounds familiar.


oh yeah, exactly what I'm getting from Terry

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Actually Scott the v2.2 works just fine on a 2gnt and is not that much different from the v3.0. The V3.0 is more advanced with the integrated flyback circuit, voltage supply protection as well as the injector circuit protection. I personally run the V2.2 for the simple reason that i have been running it for 2 years. There is nothing installed on the v3.0 that i cant add to my v2.2.

For people looking into running fuel only and high impedance injectors only i recommend the v2.2 for the simple fact of budget building. The v3.0 is a much better choice for someone planning on running spark and expanding the MS in the future.

X, yours is on the way as planned.

Back on topic....if you can really get this turbo for an unbeatable price then get it. Just plan to upgrade your fuel very soon and do not push that turbo as hard as the turbo you have now.

For the record the top choice for a 4g63 is still DSMlink.

Terry

 

[XMasta19]

+1 for Terry

 

[clipsit]

Thanks guys...still looks like Mega is coming, I just got to stop being lazy about it...its inevitable...Thanks I will get in touch w/ u Terry here in the near future...again.

 

[dieselgeek]

Actually Scott the v2.2 works just fine on a 2gnt and is not that much different from the v3.0. The V3.0 is more advanced with the integrated flyback circuit, voltage supply protection as well as the injector circuit protection. I personally run the V2.2 for the simple reason that i have been running it for 2 years. There is nothing installed on the v3.0 that i cant add to my v2.2.

For people looking into running fuel only and high impedance injectors only i recommend the v2.2 for the simple fact of budget building. The v3.0 is a much better choice for someone planning on running spark and expanding the MS in the future.

X, yours is on the way as planned.

Back on topic....if you can really get this turbo for an unbeatable price then get it. Just plan to upgrade your fuel very soon and do not push that turbo as hard as the turbo you have now.

For the record the top choice for a 4g63 is still DSMlink.

Terry

Terry - that's not quite accurate.


The v2.2 board WORKS great, but it's far more susceptible to short circuits outside the MS affecting the MS than the v3 board. How do I know? On one of our DSMs, we were moving the relay box with the battery still attached. We accidentally shorted out the battery lead on the chassis, a short spark was enough to smoke the entire v2.2 MS. Voltage had travelled backwards into it, and smoked 4 different traces randonly across the board, and ahandful of components. The main battery line was fused at the trunk, and the 4 distribution leads coming off it also had fuses - we blew only the distribution fuse (MS was protected by this, supposedly) but still fried the v2.2 board - The version 2.2 board is *not* designed to protect itself against these kinds of mishaps. How do I know the V3 board can survive the same power hit? Because in the same car, just last weekend, removing the relay box to get at the coolant hoses, we did the same exact thing - only this time we had a v3 board in the car. Same fuses blew, but the v3 board was fine. If you're building and selling commercially to these guys, you should be informing them of this kind of extra protection available.


Another thing you missed about the V3 board: temperature ratings of the components. Some of the components inside the v2.2 board are NOT RATED for operation below temps that are frequently seen especially in the colder climates in north america. This hasn't ben a problem for any of my v2.2 cars that I know of, but it's quite a bit more comfortable knowing the components in my EMS are at least rated for the temps they will experience on a cold morning.


One final note: on the turbo truck (parish's blue silverado, from Drag Week, HRM, etc.) we ran into the limitations of the injector circuits on the v2.2 board. The v3 board has TRIPLE the capacity for driving multiple fuel injectors. I like having this extra overhead, although I realize most guys here are only driving 4 injectors.


Finally, the way *I* look at the v3 board: it's comparable to an AEM, being a commercial-quality design - whereas the v2.2 board is for the hobbyist. If you're someone whose commercially building/selling/installing megasquirt units, in my opinion you should be providing the customer with the more robust solution, or an option to use it. To say you can add anything to your v2 board that runs on the V3 is pushing the truth a bit. Again, my opinion.

carry on,
-scott

 

[92 GSR-4]

Scott,

I'm currently using DSMlink in my street car. I'm looking into Megasquirt possibly. Are you guys wiring it up to adapt to the stock ECU harness and eliminating the need for the relay box? Or are you rewiring the car using "new" or non-mitsu sensors (coolant temp., air intake temp, map, etc.) and using the relay box?

Is a "adapter harness" in the works? I hate the idea of splicing my main harness. Makes it a little hard to reverse the install...

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Much of the car is re-wired using new sensors with a few fuses here and there, as necessary. Obviously, some harnesses, like the fuel injector harness, are spliced directly (that's how I plan on doing it at least).

If you buy a whole pre-assembled MS kit from someone, they'll more than likely include a basically universal harness since you'll be connecting to all new sensors anyway. Some aspects of the harness might be changed for different applications, though, so ask whoever you buy the kit from about that first.

 

[XMasta19]

yeah...not sure how many guys are running the megasquirt on the 4g's with all the options you have out there. As far as it usually goes...you get a nice long harness with bunches of wires that tap for their signals at the ecu, but that doesn't mean you can't "reverse the install". Have you ever heard of flux I honestly don't think you're gonna get much more help than that in our forum though, you'll have better luck asking in your forums or even the megasquirt forums themselves.

http://megasquirt.info
http://www.msefi.com/

 

[92 GSR-4]

Actually there's a guy that did a write-up on a 1G. This seems to be a VERY impressive tool. I wont be switching from DSMlink any time soon, but I DO have a backup talon AWD that I may try this on..kind of a test monkey. It looks like I will be making my own adapter harness..maybe I'll grab a N/T ECU out of the junkyard and take the connector terminals out of it. MegaSquirt looks like it will work with all the factory sensors and such.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222199

Sorry I posted in this forum..its the only place I could find a discussion on megasquirt..