My Lord, stop hatin' on the 420A...

[lawdaman]

Listen, everyone doesnt want a turbo. Yes, their nice to have and do show big numbers, but they aren't the cheapest things in the world to slap on a n/a engine(And NO its not easier to just get a GST, TSI, or GSX or we probably would have). Of course, you arent going to get the same HP goals you'd get with a turbo on a 4 cylinder, but there other interests in the scene. Thus, the reason they even have all-motor classes!! Dont forget n/a engines make up the majority. When someone asks about getting HP on their n/a motors without forced induction, don't shoot them down and tell them to slap a snail on their engines! Explain it to them it's not going to be easy, and there lies the challenge. Isn't that the reason we all like small-displacement engines? The fact we can squeeze big HP numbers out of small blocks? Otherwise, wouldn't we all have joined the mullet-clubb by now?! :thumb:

[97eclipseRS]

hey man i agree with you on this one but im just gonna let you in on a little secret..............THIS IS A LOST CAUSE. all the people that hate are a bunch of ###ets and they aren't going to change their ways ### we tell em to. they are close minded and will not change because they think its right and they think they are funny and know everything. you will ###### get flamed by them for putting this up and hopefully i will too. but in the end, does it really matter at all? no, so lets all just quit worryin bout this bullshit

[RSTsoon]

This thread is as useless as the post that im posting...bite your lip and get over it.

[TBSpyder]

Originally posted by lawdaman
Isn't that the reason we all like small-displacement engines? The fact we can squeeze big HP numbers out of small blocks?

Big numbers out of a N/A 420a That's news to me. I agree, turbos aren't "everything," but face the facts...N/A DSMs have little potential without major tuning and thus major expense.

[Defiant]

Jeeze, I don't hate them. They make very attractive travel toasters, with reasonable reliability and good gas mileage. Kinda like a Honda.

[green95hrcgs]

Its not that a lot of people hate on the 420A. Its just that it is a known fact that some people that wanna go "all motor" seem to have hp goals that are not gonna be easily achieved by going all motor. Even 200whp is much to ask. Can it be done......YES.......but for a lot of work and a lot of money. There are some guys that have turbo kits that are not even putting down 200whp. I have a Stage 3.5-ish kit on my car with cams rods pistons Howell Automotive 2.2L stroker etc etc etc and still only put out 262whp @ 14psi. Granted I am fuel limited at the moment.

My whole point is that many people with the 420A that wanna stay all motor have goals that seem pretty unrealistic without TONS of work and TONS of money......which prompts the "get a snail" response from everyone. Dont take it as destructive criticism, but rather CONSTRUCTIVE. Hell it may save you time and money. However to each his own. If you are dead set on going all motor then by all means do so. Its the internet. Dont be swayed by people of whom you may not even know by name or face.

Its all about opinions and actual experiences. Its your job to seperate the two and decide what you wanna do from there.

[97eclipseRS]

well said

[birdman]

Alot of people hate on the 420a even if it has a turbo. i know alot of people around where i live make fun of me for turboing my gs but when i smoke them they have little to say. the others that still hate oh well they can think what they want. as for all motor 420a they can be extremey fast in neons all motor but for the money you would spend making your all motor 420a eclipse you could spend half the amount slap on a turbo kit and be way faster then you would all motor. if you would like to go all motor then take your time and be patient it will take plenty of work,mods, and time.

[BlueMoonEclipse]

plain and simple

420a is not a bad engine....4g63 is not a bad engine

a turbo 300 hp 420a is as good as a turbo 300 hp 4g63 (well unless you somehow come out with a worse torque curve.)...yes you will need forged internals and a turbo and ect ect...but you will need similar upgrades for that power lvl on a 4g63..

well all motor is really not for if you want TONS of power and a nice torque curve and spend less money than a turbo...its more expensive per hp than going with nos/turbo

[xXeclipstasyXx]

its an endless argument, its apples and oranges.... some people like all motor engines and you have to respect that, some people like forced induction... theres no right or wrong answer, its just what the person prefers

[prostreetdsmx1]

probably walking into a pit of fire but i am going to watch my wordin so i dont disrespect any one.....

ok so first off a 300hp 4g63 will need no internal work but oil changes. we have built many 400WHP 4g63 on completey stock engines (besides cams).
We have turbo'd a gs and the money it took to get the 14.01, we didnt see worth while, and there is nothin wrong with all motor. however i dont think that the 420A is the prime candidate for that. We had one on my Pro Street DSM team and we worked that one in the attempt to stay all motor and the guy went out and got a 95 gs-t and has neverlooked back. i am yet to see an all motor 420A put down any serious numbers. if there is one out there please dont flame me, just send me a link or somethin.

i am never going to bash any one for being NA or anything, in my book a DSM is a DSM. WE all have different goals and different wants with our cars and we all need to respect that.

i know one thing we all have in common. WE GOT THE BEST DAMN LOOKING CARS OUT THERE!

[EclpzLvr97]

Couldn't have said it better, Martin.

Yes, "a DSM is a DSM"....and I know Martin means that for the fact that he practically came to me (a n/t driver) out of no where and helped me get a deal on getting much needed engine work done. I remember what he said...."Just want to help get as many DSMs on the road as I can..."

Also, i'll reiterate the fact that there ARE people who prefer a n/t over turbo. They may not be into the whole "i'm fast" thing or a whole world of other reasons.

I for one, got my n/t as a graduation gift and am extremely thankful for it. My family knew I fell in love w/DSMs the day I took a ride in my grandfather's Talon.....so i'm just proud to be able to say I drive a DSM.


So basically, yes, this is an "argument" that gets no where. Everyone has an opinion.

[prostreetdsmx1]

thats sooooo sweet......


ha ha ha thanks nikki i try.

[Kirby]

Originally posted by Defiant
Jeeze, I don't hate them. They make very attractive travel toasters, with reasonable reliability and good gas mileage. Kinda like a Honda.

You see this is exactly what I am talking about, your dumbass has to come on here and spit some douche bag BS. Next time your on the east coast come give my "honda" a try, and you can drive home remembering my tail lights and how they looked as they flew into the distance. You’re supposed to be a wiseman not a wiseass but you still make a comment like that. If you were truly wise then you would see the potential in the 420a and respect it. Just like we can't choose our bodies when we are born we cannot chose our internal parts when we buy a car. The fact of the matter is if our rods and pistons were of the same makeup as the 4g63 then stock for stock we could make the same power (if not more due to our better head design). Would you agree wiseass? By the time you paid for the stock turbo system and then changed it all out for a bigger turbo and better fueling I have spent the same amount on my built up internals and I can make more power than you. LISTEN for a change here I'm going to say something important, Your motor is NOT better than mine, mine simply had different goals at its conception than yours. The SRT-4 is a 420a built for boost and I bet you could pump 400HP out of it before needing a rebuild too. The point of the matter is this you drive a DSM and I drive a DSM so drop your attitude and learn something, or when you come to the east coast I'll be glad to teach you. As for the rest of the 4g63 owners in this thread you guys have the right idea and I'm glad to see it.

[Sephroth57]

i think you NT guys just got PMS cause you didnt buy a turbo car. most likely you either didnt know much about cars, or it was a gift or something which is why most people have NT, then they wanna do performance and run into problems because all motor is not cheap, and frankly not as effective on our motor anyway to do. My first DSM was a 90 GS, when i bought it i didnt know much about how to make cars fast i just knew that i liked how it looked, and i saw some fast eclipses around and i thought it could be fast. well unless u turbo them theyre not gonna get fast, so i bought a GSX and that was it... no whining about people telling me to get a turbo. people telling me to get a turbo was the best thing they ever did cause now im in a whole world of performance higher then where i was and its more fun to have more stuff to tune and play with. point is advice is just that, if u dont like it dont take it

[BD1]

I really could care less about what you have to say, my RS looks nice, I have gotten compliments about it, I have beat everyone I have raced in my car, and it has not given me one problem. I also learned how to drive manual on it. I am now moving on as I have my new car coming in, I shall soon say farewell to my RS, consider it a good car, and get on to the V8 scene. Bye

[banshi]

people with turbos just went the cheap way out...they get a turbo and they're set. thats all they care about. us people with the NA's know there's more to an engine than the snail. sure it takes time, but we've got more bragging rights when we're done with the car cause after all....it is just an NA

[prostreetdsmx1]

ok guys look you really arent being helpful towards ending beef between us and going turbo is in NOWAY the easy way out. we have to set up a very tightnit setup to run effeciently. I can tell you now i cant drive anything NA and enjoy it.

now as i stated i clearly respect the NT guys and gals but you guys have to repect us too, the things we can do with our STOCK engine is unbeleivable. this "snail" is one monster creation. so as i am respectin you guys, respect us in the same way. if you dont agreewith how a particular tuner responds aim it to them not at us in general.

thanks

[BD1]

Originally posted by prostreetdsmx1
I can tell you now i cant drive anything NA and enjoy it.

350 Small Block

[97eclipseRS]

im sure most of the na guys will agree with me on this one; we give respect to the non-asshole 4g63 guys. but why should we give a damn about you guys and give you any respect for your car when you treat us like ricers?

[SnoopySLR]

Kirby that was great. But this should never come up again. I wrote a thread about something like this about 6 months ago, and it got way out of hand. Some moderator, please lock this down, and lock all threads like this. Its not helping the DSM community, its killing it. Can't we all just stop hating. I have a NT and I know I'm not fast. In 2 years or so, I hope to have a good rebuild and turbo and be running high 13's to mid 14's. Not that fastest thing in the world, but its all I want.

And Sephroth57, I don't know anything about you. But with a comment like that, I'm guessing your a kid who's parents pay for your insurance. I don't know if you knew this, but Turbo cars are a lot higher in insurance that NT. I couldn't afford a turbo when I got my car. I wish I could have. I had the oppertunity to get a 95 GST with 12000 less miles for the same price as I paid for mine.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Kirby


Originally posted by Defiant
Jeeze, I don't hate them. They make very attractive travel toasters, with reasonable reliability and good gas mileage. Kinda like a Honda.


You see this is exactly what I am talking about, your dumbass has to come on here and spit some douche bag BS. Next time your on the east coast come give my "honda" a try, and you can drive home remembering my tail lights and how they looked as they flew into the distance. You’re supposed to be a wiseman not a wiseass but you still make a comment like that. If you were truly wise then you would see the potential in the 420a and respect it. Just like we can't choose our bodies when we are born we cannot chose our internal parts when we buy a car. The fact of the matter is if our rods and pistons were of the same makeup as the 4g63 then stock for stock we could make the same power (if not more due to our better head design). Would you agree wiseass? By the time you paid for the stock turbo system and then changed it all out for a bigger turbo and better fueling I have spent the same amount on my built up internals and I can make more power than you. LISTEN for a change here I'm going to say something important, Your motor is NOT better than mine, mine simply had different goals at its conception than yours. The SRT-4 is a 420a built for boost and I bet you could pump 400HP out of it before needing a rebuild too. The point of the matter is this you drive a DSM and I drive a DSM so drop your attitude and learn something, or when you come to the east coast I'll be glad to teach you. As for the rest of the 4g63 owners in this thread you guys have the right idea and I'm glad to see it.

You sure took that and ran the wrong way with it, didn't you? My original statement stands. Hondas are good, nice cars. They aren't for racing. Neither are DSMs. They're reasonably quick in turbo versions, and in NA they're good, reliable cars. But they aren't dragsters, they aren't road racers, and they aren't rally cars any more than any other STREET car is.

The question is about the 420a, not a modified car. I defy you to find one instance where I've said the turbo is _better_ than a 420a. It's not a comparison that can be made. They're no more "similar" than your blown engine is to stock, and trying to pit one against the other is an exercise of absurdity. Why are you so worried about being "better"?

[97eclipseRS]

its not so much worrying as it is being tired of hearing you 4g63 assholes bitchin bout how much better your car is. it kind of gets to us after a while ### it annoys the hell out of us

[JReynosa]

Maybe some of us N/A guys got our 420a because we like chrysler. Sure I could of got a neon but who wants to cruise in a 4 door that was made in mexico and feels like you are riding in a tin can. I got the looks of a DSM and the gas milage of neon.


Go chrysler

[lawdaman]

Originally posted by Sephroth57
i think you NT guys just got PMS cause you didnt buy a turbo car. most likely you either didnt know much about cars, or it was a gift or something which is why most people have NT.

Ok, I'm sorry I ever started this thread. I was about to wash my hands of it, until I heard this. Look PUNK the reason why many tuners (not most) have a N/A and not the turbo editions is because they arent exactly cost-friendly in some areas. Maybe you dont pay your own car note or insurance premiums, maybe you come from a two parent house-hold or maybe even your done with the whole college-thing, but a lot of us aren't as lucky as you. I couldnt afford the GST I wanted, so settled with a RS, which I adore. I put this thread up for folk like you and all you managed to do was prove my point. Stop bashing us! We're all family here!

[prostreetdsmx1]

Look PUNK the reason why many tuners (not most) have a N/A and not the turbo editions is because they arent exactly cost-friendly in some areas. Maybe you dont pay your own car note or insurance premiums, maybe you come from a two parent house-hold or maybe even your done with the whole college-thing, but a lot of us aren't as lucky as you.

why does this come up everytime. almost like we are hated (turbo) because we were able to afford our cars....

im 21, bought my own car, pay my own insurance and pay bills at my moms house since my dad left. i always get some shit from the NT guys about that.

ahwell....just wanted to vent real quick....

thanks

[slodsm]

There is some pretty rediculous shit being thrown out from both camps, all I can tell the RS/GS guys is don't knock it till you've tried it. The 4G63 is the best built engine out there in stock form pretty much. The 420A responds well to boost however and can be fun at abour 10 psi, I repeat, fun, not fast. All the NA guy who say that they are accomplishing things the same, just in a different way, not even close. What is the fastest NA Eclipse out there? Maybe a mid 14? Nowhere near what a 4G motored car with half the money in it will run. Kirby, you wanna talk about your Turboed 420? Hell you don't have to wait for defiant to roll over to the east coast, I am already here, when you wanna run em? And the SRT4 is not even close to a 420A, the thing is so stout because the idea came up very shortly before production therefore they simply shoved the best internals in it prior to release so they would not have to worry about it breaking, now, they have had time to R&D cheaper parts and I woudl almost bet a paycheck next years model will not have the same internals, they will be cheaper. I have a 420A turbo and a 1g awd car, there is no comparison. And the Honda by the way, responds to all motor mods better than a 420 motor anyway.

[TBSpyder]

Originally posted by JReynosa
Maybe some of us N/A guys got our 420a because we like chrysler. Sure I could of got a neon but who wants to cruise in a 4 door that was made in mexico and feels like you are riding in a tin can. I got the looks of a DSM and the gas milage of neon.


Go chrysler

You're joking right? No offense..but Chrysler has got to be one of the worst car manufacturers out there. And good gas mileage? I've owned 2 non-turbo dsm's now and both got around 23-24mpg...which isn't that great of gas mileage, especially for a 4 cylinder.

[JReynosa]

I know the gas mileage is bad. Especially the way I drive.

The 4g63 guys can dis on us all they like but dont compare us to a neon that is just dirty and uncalled for.

[Rogue_Ant]

Funny, the Neon guys brag:
'we have the same engine as the eclipse!'



Rogue