My project..... Please help .....engine almost ready to go back in....

[Brandenbmx]

I purchased a 96, Eclipse nt, mt. When I bought it someone had thrown a rod out the side of the block. So I searched for a 420a. Ha good luck with that.
I ended up buying a sohc neon 2.0 a few years newer (99).
I sent my head to the machine shop to get 2 bent valves replaced, decked and tanked, (I didnt want all the metal in the oil to make it down into new(er) short block.

So I took note of the timing marks on crank and block and cams when removed. Now I am worried about putting it back together.

Head is on, oiled all the lifters, and rockers. installed cams. (everything is just finger tight because I dont know the tq specs or seq to do cam caps. Also the Main cam cap near the cover looks like it had sealent or glue on the bottom of it and so did the cam seals? Should I re apply gasket glue here? Also does anyone know the TQ specs for reinstalling cams?

Last how do I time this thing? My mechanic friend suggested to remove plugs, line all the timing marks up, cam mark facing cam mark, crank arrow to block arrow, install tensioner and belt, spin it over twice and make sure everything lines up. My issue is the "slack in belt" while installing it, with the tensioner pulled back seems like I always end up a tooth off after I spin it, and tensioner is tight.

I have spent WAY WAY too much time and money on this to distroy it by bending valves and having to re- pull the engine.

So far I have done Main, Rod bearings. Had block and crank, head all checked out, done piston rings. New valves, new timing belt and tensioner, new water pump and thermostat, all engine and trans mounts..

I might have to replace the pressure plate on clutch. There was a inspection plate on bottom of trans that I coulnt see because of cross member and I ended up bending 2 of the "fingers" out while seperating the trans and engine.
The clutch and pressure plate are both Brand new, less than 3k miles.... Do you think it is possible to just bend these back? I have spent way more money than I can justify on this car so far and I know this sounds "cheap" but I dont think I can afford to spend anymore unnecessary money on it.

This was going to be a quick motor swap, that has turned into a month long engine rebuild / swap .. Any help on these questions would be great.

B.

***** Also I took some pictures of project if anyone is interested in seeing them *****

 

[glowryder]

suggestion:
Get the FSM, it will have alll the TQ specs.
..you said you searched, either the key words wernt good, or the search engine sux..

1. What block are you using? IF its the 96, the back driver side head bolt hole has an issue, its not tapped deep enuff

Solution: ARP head studs, or shaving 2-4 threads off the stock bolt. On that note, you use NEW head bolts right/

2. meachanical tensioner. Go to ebay and buy a mechanical tensioner kit. the hydro one that comes stock on these cars suck. i had a brand new one that leaked and dam near kiled my engine after 3k miles.. the mechanical one is FAR superior and worth it. plus makes it a lot easier to time. Thes cars need to be timed precisely BTW..

3. timing , forget your marks. notice the hole in each cam, between cyl1 and 2. those need to be perpendicular to the surface of the head at TDC. Theres a tool called "bitts" i belive, it locks them into place. or you can use like a 1/4 extension, but i suggest the tool. its like 80$, and makes timing a breeze. Then once these (holes) are both pointing up, turn crank to TDC, youll see theres a mark on the crank sprocket and oil pump, match these up. theres a how to time somewhere on here.. try using the search again..

Is the engine in or out? b/c you really should have done this with it out..

and rule of thumb, if you have to ask, weather or not to replace, b/c your skeptical, replace it.. if you have "all this money" tied up in it. then don't skimp at the end..

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Here is the factory service manual I believe torque specs are around page 30.
http://az2gnt.net/FSM/2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf
Here is some stuff on timing with pictures and which way the cam gears should face
2GNT.com - PROPER_TIMING_MARK_ALIGNMENT
Just make sure that none of the cylinders are close to the top of the block when you bolt down your head or you could bend a valve and not torque the head correctly. Im with glow on the mechanical tensioner, however it is not needed neither is that tool he was talking about. Just take out as much slack as you can before you pull the pin, takes some practice.

 

[Brandenbmx]

The engine is out of the car. MY engine is ON TDC which I belive is WRONG according to the service manual. Im not sure which cyl is 1 or 4 but the driver side cyl is all the way at the top the centers are down and the pass side is near the top.

I have not tq-ed down the cams just finger tight, but I did tq the head down with block at tdc. I hope This didnt screw anything up...

The way the fingers on the pressure plate work is they spread out when it is spinning, the faster they spin the further they strech out. These grab on the throw out bearing. So as long as they match the other it will be fine.- This is according to my friend that is a master tech. Same guy that CANT find time to come over and help me time my engine. . He said it happens sometimes when pulling engines, and its not a big deal.

I am having a hard time getting the neon dip stick tube out to install the eclipse tube also.

Just take out as much slack as you can before you pull the pin, takes some practice.

What Pin are you talking about?

 

[glowryder]

You will need to Tq the cam caps down , in seqence before moving on. then dont forget the cam seals, and then tq the cam gears.

Cyl 1 is pass side. look for 1 hole in each cam between cyl 1 and 2. you cant miss them

As for TDC, liks shake said get cams to the right orientation, then put at TDC. Look at you crank sprocket, see a little arrow?
No look at the oil pump, directly above the crank sprocket, see the little arrow? when these point at each other , your at TDC. so put the crank sprocket arrow at 180 degrees. (it will be pointing twords the back of the block) this is where u want the pistons, at when you play with the cams so they dont meet.

and master tech is a tittle that says" i spent alot of money learning about engines and their PRINCIPALS" not how every single engine is put together, so no offense, but the 420a isnt the most common engine.. so he probably wont be much help. there are certain "flaws" and tricks, like there are for every engine b/c every engine is different, seach yourself for timing how tos on this form and youll be better off IMO.. i know a few "masters" of thieir field, and i wouldn't let them pet my dog..to me 9/10, if you need to go to school for something, b/c you dont have the natura
l aptitude, then you dont need to be doing that thing.. u kno?

the pin is in the hydro tensioner, if you get the mechanical ( i highly suggest it) you wont need to wory bout this.

 

[SrKegler]

You mentioned you oiled the lifters. That means all of them are full of oil. I would bleed all of them before tightenting down the cams. Don't want to take a chance on pushing a valve into a piston.

 

[glowryder]

bleed them, then let them sit in oil for a day and install.

2.7 lifters and rockers are a nice upgrade BTW...

 

[dsmcrzy]

OP for your timing belt before you torque down the tensioner the cranck sproket has to be 1/2 tooth behind the TDC mark on the oil pump and your CAM gears still lined up. Now torque it down and it will be dead on!

good luck!

 

[bullettdsm]

I'm going to school to be a bater, so when I get out, I'll be a masterb....... Yeah, Haha

Anyway, these guys are giving you good info, but I'm not so sure you're understanding it. I think it would be a really good idea if you stopped everything and read through this rebuild link;

2GNT.com - A_Proper_Rebuild

Even though you are not doing a full rebuild, it will help you understand a lot.

When you're driverside piston or passenger side piston is "all the way up" that is considered top dead center (they will both be up at the same time), If they are both down and the two center pistons are "all the way up" that is considered bottom dead center.

Here are a couple 'O few links for you to look at in reference to understanding timing and the relationship of cams to valves and pistons.

2GNT.com - Timing_Belt_Replacement
2GNT.com - PROPER_TIMING_MARK_ALIGNMENT

I know Shake gave you one, but I don't remember which one, .

Now you are concerned about the crank/pistons being in a good position when you go to put the cams on. Ok, here's a safe thing to do. Look at the crank pulley arrow. See how it is supposed to line up with the arrow on the oil pump (which you would if you did your reading)? Well let's call when they are pointing at each other 12 o'clock (looking at the crank pulley like a face of a clock). In that position the pistons are at top dead center in cylinder 1 and 4. Now what you want to do is turn the crank gear counter clockwise so the arrow is at 9 o'clock (like it is the hour hand on a clock face). In that postion all four of your pistons are at halfway. They could never ever touch the valves.

You can now put in your cams. Try lining them up so they are close to where they should be when they are set for top dead center (it doesn't have to be exact. just get them close). After you torque them down you can now turn them slightly in whatever direction you need to do the timing belt. Turn them until you have them close. Once they are close, you can now turn the crank gear, in a clockwise direction, back to the top dead center mark. This way they won't ever have a chance of contacting the piston.

You are now ready to do your timing belt.

And if you do go with a mechanical tensioner, this may help you;
420A Mechanical Conversion Kit Images
VIN 'C' and 'Y' Chrysler / Mitsubishi 2.0 Mechanical Timing Tensioner ONLY by Litens

As for the pressure plate, this, "The way the fingers on the pressure plate work is they spread out when it is spinning, the faster they spin the further they strech out is not true (maybe he's going to bater school also ). When you press your clutch pedal it forces the throw out bearing against the fingers on the pressure plate and release the face of the pressure plate from the disc (by way of pushing on the "fingers") .

Anyway, have I bent fingers back in place? Yup. Would I recommend it? Nah, I couldn't. There are few things that come into play with balance and vibration etc. But if you are adamant to push the fingers back, be absolutely sure that they are exactly at the same spot as the others.

MB

 

[glowryder]

^^^^ gr8 links and advice.

 

[Brandenbmx]

I followed the links, installed cams, timed engine, installed pan, and pickup. I am not installing the manual tensioner simply because I just replaced the other one. ALSO I didnt fill the" lash adjuster, lifter" I just lubed the outside of everything with 8195 permitex engine assembly lube. The cam caps, the rockers, cam lobes, hell I even smeared the cyl walls with it prior to bolting on the head. I dont want anything to get screwed by dry first start.

The only thing I cant get is the neon dipstick tube out....... This has to come out to install the eclipse tube. I soaked it with liquid wrench so I will try to check it when I get off work friday. Any suggestions?

Intake is on I am not installing header, or crank pully until engine is back in. Also I cant find my alignment tool. Will I be able to get pilot lined up with out it?

Engine was a 99 neon 2.0 SOHC. Engine was low millage but I went ahead and did rings, bearings, ball honed it, even though It didnt need it. The only thing that didnt line up was bracket for ac compressor. 3 of the 4 bolts were fine, the other wasnt threaded deep enough. So I will either put in shorter bolt or leave it out. Also the instection plate that bolts to bottom of trans will NOT be reused.

I am thinking of running Denzo ird plugs, I will need new wires and crank angle sensor. Old one wont come out of block and the neon one is a different plug.

I plan on having the engine in tomorrow. getting it wired back up and vacuum lines right is another story.


Thanks