Turboed, how do I set it up to run E85?

[wolfie359]

I currently have a Stage 2 Start Turbo System. 10:1 FMU, Walbro 255 Fuel Pump, ect. Currently I can run 14-16psi boost before getting knock on 92 octane.

Will my current O2 sensors work fine with E85?

I have stock 190cc injectors, but have a set of 1g 450cc stock injectors sitting on the shelf, do I need to use them for the higher fuel flow rate?

I have already replaced all rubber lines and connectors with Ethanol approved ones. Including in my fuel sending unit, and replaced the stock rubber gasket with a felt/silicone one.

I do have a narrow band A/F Gauge. Can you explain in detail the pros/cons between a Narrow Band and Wide Band A/F Gauge? Will this gauge even be accurate or usable while running E85?

I don't have the money yet for a programmable fuel management system, but at a later time/date I do plan on buying one. Just trying to figure out what I can do without one for the time being. I'm not looking to push a ton of power at the moment, just starting with run and run properly on E85.

Lets figure out how to make this work!

 

[pgarland]

You definitely want to run a wide band...narrow band gauges are practically worthless other than as cool looking flashy lights for your pillar.

Check out the following quote from snowborder (be sure to click through the links...tons of great info in there!).

Here's the wideband shootout link Mike is referring to:
http://tunertools.com/articles/FordMuscle.pdf

And here's a few threads with people asking about which wideband they should get:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/340191-prosport-wideband-vs-aem-uego.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/338097-widebands.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/336457-wideband.html

Not sure about the setup for running E85...I'll leave that one to be answered by some of the more expert fuel setup guys on here.

 

[tec_41]

Currently I can run 14-16psi boost


I have stock 190cc injectors

WTF

This needs to be fixed before running any more than 8psi...Your stock injectors just can't keep up. And with no engine/fuel management and no wideband I'd be willing to bet you're running some scary numbers.

 

[stockfornow]

^^^What he said....
1st you need something to tune with, and def. with a wideband! 14-16 psi on a 190cc injectors??? What size turbo, a hair dryer??? Anyway, you definatelly need those 450's in there, but w/o a tuning tool(SAFC is pretty darn cheap), they will just flood your motor with a ton of fuel. It's also a good idea to install an FMU after you tune your car, since all it does is just bumps up the fuel pressure a couple psi when in boost, it's more of a safety precaution. And your current O2 sensor is fine, no need to worry about that at all, however your 2nd O2 sensor (for OBD2 cars) might cause a check engine light, due to a different/richer A/F ratios.

Narrowband: It pretty much measures just the voltage output of your existing O2 sensor, not realiable
Wideband: Actually shows you the A/F ration, which is what you need in order to tune your car to usually 11.5:1

 

[pgarland]

The fuel guys have spoken, you need better injectors for sure.

...Injector Dynamic 1000's. Those will be good for pretty much anything you can throw at them (including E85). Those injectors can handle much higher fuel pressures.

MB

The Bullet Man has spoken.

Look into these: Injector Dynamics 1000cc Saturated injector

And as Mr. BulletDSM has also said (in that same thread, which can be found here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/360492-what-style-brand-injectors-use-ms.html ),

Be sure to specify 420A DSM or else you'll end up with 4g63 injectors.

 

[stockfornow]

The fuel guys have spoken, you need better injectors for sure.



The Bullet Man has spoken.

Look into these: Injector Dynamics 1000cc Saturated injector

And as Mr. BulletDSM has also said (in that same thread, which can be found here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/360492-what-style-brand-injectors-use-ms.html ),

Be sure to specify 420A DSM or else you'll end up with 4g63 injectors.

Running E85 does require to run more of it, but 1000cc injectors are definatelly overkill for a stock block 420A.
On the side note, find out if you have wire in the resistor box, depending on the high vs. impedance injectors, do a little research on that part.

 

[pgarland]

But aren't we all aspiring to get our 420a's as fast as Bullet's?

Seriously, I'm not a fuel system expert...just thought I'd include the link as he specifically mentions that those injectors will handle E85...and I'm not sure just how far the OP wants to go with his project?

I gave my advice about definitely needing a wideband in this thread already...I'll kindly step out of the way and let the fuel system experts guide you further...

 

[tegster1]

The wideband will have another sensor you need to tap into your downpipe (I believe its 2ft away from the turbo is optimal). You will have to check into that. You will also need to wire in a resistor pack if you run with the 1g or any turbo dsm injectors. Our injectors are high impedance. I have no idea what those 1000cc are but make sure you know what you need/want before you buy.

 

[wolfie359]

According to the part numbers the injectors for the 4g63 and 420a are the exact same. Meaning they should both have the same impedance. I'll have to double check the impedance on the injectors I have chilling here.

My intentions for the car is around 250 to 300hp running E85 daily driver. Eventually I want to give this one to my G/F and get a 3g, with a Turboed V6, for myself. Kicks the shit out of her 4th gen V6 firebird .

I guess I'm going to have to start looking around for a used wideband. I'm running low on $$ for this project.

The turbo in this car right now is a Turbonetics T3/T4 Hybrid, with a Vortec FMU, and walbro 255 fuel pump.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

According to the part numbers the injectors for the 4g63 and 420a are the exact same. Meaning they should both have the same impedance. I'll have to double check the impedance on the injectors I have chilling here.

If you're suggesting 4G63 and 420A fuel injectors are interchangeable, you're incorrect. The factory part numbers are different. Plus, not only are the caps different, but as tegster1 mentioned, 4G63's use low impedance fuel injectors (hence the resistor pack), while 420A's use high impedance fuel injecctors.

 

[bagged420a]

I really think that this project is over your head/budget. You can't throw 100 dollars at it and violla project done. You'll need something to tune with becuase of the upgraded injector size. And you have previously mentioned in another thread that you don't have the money to get MS. I suggest you put this project off untill you have plenty of money, because those 450cc injectors won't even be enough to net you 250whp on pump gas.

 

[rideyamaha287]

i was thinkin for running e85 also we have it at our pic quick down the road. Im running the portfueler would i be able 2 run it with the tune it comes from hahn? I emailed hahn about it and they said i could but it just wears out the rubber seals fast. Im gonna get the zeintronic wideband in a couple of weeks so i can tune by my self i think i could do it. my local shop charges 400 bucks just 2 road tune. I really want more info on this.

 

[bagged420a]

i was thinkin for running e85 also we have it at our pic quick down the road. Im running the portfueler would i be able 2 run it with the tune it comes from hahn? I emailed hahn about it and they said i could but it just wears out the rubber seals fast. Im gonna get the zeintronic wideband in a couple of weeks so i can tune by my self i think i could do it. my local shop charges 400 bucks just 2 road tune. I really want more info on this.

I'm not very fimiliar with running E85, but I do know that you can't use the tune for gas(93oct) to run the E85. You need more fuel when running E85.

 

[rideyamaha287]

does anybody out there have any good hahn maps that there running. the one i got from hahn is a little 2 rich. Im lookin for maybe some e85 maps?

 

[rstare]

OP, you need a engine management (MegaSquirt) to run E85.
Also, as others have mentioned, you need bigger injectors to be running that much boost. And even if you do 14-16psi, assuming you're using the normal Star turbo, is really pushing it.

 

[95gsttsi]

good info i have a set of pte 650cc injectors will those work on e85? also i run 15-20 psi on a built 420a with a FPR FMU and a FCD so its nopt impossible but the car wont go over 90 in 5th while in boost

 

[LeeSD1]

To the OP i dont know why anyone hasnt mentioned it but you dont need e85. Your mentioning using e85 because your getting knock at 14-16psi? thats probably because your maxing out your injectors and running lean OR you have a higher compression? either way you need something to tune with