97 RS Shuts off when it feels like????

[AWDphantomTSI]

Hey guys this is my first post in the 420a section as my wife got a 97 rs with a blown motor which i replaced along with a rebuilt head waterpump and all that fun stuff. Now i am a 1st gen turbo guy so i dont know much about 2gnt's. The car will idle maybe sometimes 5,10, or even 15 min....then suddenly it is like you turn the key to off? I have checked everything on the car over and over tonight and found nothing wrong....until the end of the night when the car overheated even though the temp gauge read normal and the fan never kicked on.....took cap and stat out and they both look bad. Please someone help me out she really loves this car and doesnt want to get rid of it.
Ed

 

[TalonESIT]

Hey guys this is my first post in the 420a section as my wife got a 97 rs with a blown motor which i replaced along with a rebuilt head waterpump and all that fun stuff. Now i am a 1st gen turbo guy so i dont know much about 2gnt's. The car will idle maybe sometimes 5,10, or even 15 min....then suddenly it is like you turn the key to off? I have checked everything on the car over and over tonight and found nothing wrong....until the end of the night when the car overheated even though the temp gauge read normal and the fan never kicked on.....took cap and stat out and they both look bad. Please someone help me out she really loves this car and doesnt want to get rid of it.
Ed

Can you give us a bit more info? Is there a check engine light? Does it die randomly or during a certain time? How did you notice that the car overheated if the temp gauge was alright? Also, when you say the stat and cap looked bad, have you replaced them?

Check over your vacuum lines make sure non are pinched going to the intake mani.
I know, from personal exp., that if your vaccum lines get plugged the car wants to shut off on you. Also check up on your sensors, like the o2 sensor on the downpipe; my car also wanted to die from this one too because my o2 sensor was bad. But, please provide us with more info so we can help you out.

 

[95TalonOwner]

Also, it could be a dying ecu. That is one of the symptoms when they start to go. That problem is more prone to 95 2gnt's though but its worth looking into.

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

Hey, this is the owner of the car. the check engine light is not on, its dies randomly like the car was just unplugged. it happened once 2 days ago when i was waiting to turn. i got it back on and everything was fine untiful yesterday when i was at a stop light going to turn again and it died. the thing is it doesnt die while the cars driving, only while its idleing... i had no idea that the car was overheating until steam was pouring from under the hood. we have not replaced them yet it only happened last night, we will have both new cap and stat today.
thanks alot guys

 

[Blitzeclips]

Hey, this is the owner of the car. the check engine light is not on, its dies randomly like the car was just unplugged. it happened once 2 days ago when i was waiting to turn. i got it back on and everything was fine untiful yesterday when i was at a stop light going to turn again and it died. the thing is it doesnt die while the cars driving, only while its idleing... i had no idea that the car was overheating until steam was pouring from under the hood. we have not replaced them yet it only happened last night, we will have both new cap and stat today.
thanks alot guys

Okay, what was the steam from? Leaking coolant onto a hot pipe or the head and oil getting cooked? Did you pop the hood to check?

If the stat looks bad it could've been leaking. Although that wouldn't cause the car to shut off so often..

Honestly, I would start by checking your feul filter. If that gets clogged theres no feul, which equals no run, or no start. Second, I'd check the pump itself. You should read 12-14V back there. If not, your pump went out on you. So you may need to buy another..

Like said before, the 95's are very notorious for ECU failure. It's symptoms usually consist of sputtering, dieing, then no start. There's no sure way to check the ECU. Although, you can disconnect the negative battery terminal to reset it. It's worth a shot.

I have a 95 also but have yet to see this problem. (knocks on wood)

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

i know better then that, of course i popped the hood, thats why i knew it over heated and that the stat and cap were bad... the coolant was coming from the overflow tank... and the rad. was cold...
theres no sputtering and it has nothing to do with the fuel at all. the car just shuts off like the car had the key turned off... im not joking when i say its like the car just gets unplugged...

 

[TalonESIT]

I also have yet to encounter this 1995 ecu problem...(BIG KNOCK ON WOOD).
Just like blitz asked, find out where that steam came from, or if you know let us know too ^.^.

Blitz: If it was his fuel filter was clogged wouldn't the car not start up period because of this? No, disrespect just asking.

Ahh, you answered back fast phantom ! Did you go over your vacuum lines? The car will die in the same way you described if a vac line is blocked. Just do a quick following of all the lines, starting from the back of the intake mani, there is also one close to the tb... it sounds more like a electrical (like sensor, ecu) or a vacuum problem.

The reason I keep reiterating about the vacuum is because if it was an electrical problem, I would figure that the car would want to die more than just at idle. I'll see if I can find some symptoms of a dying ecu if it's available

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

Oh and today i found the overheating problem...rad fan is shot. And the shutting off i think it might have something to do with the coolant temp sensor as the temp gauge doesnt go past the 1/2 way point ...which it states in the chiltons book if its bad it wont read anything about 176*f....which is about 1/2 way on the temp gauge.

 

[TalonESIT]

Im glad your finding solutions, but are you sure the overheating was due to your fan and not your thermostat? I have two fans on my radiator and one has been shot since last year, yes I know it's not smart especially living in vegas, but I am not overheating.

That would make sense about the coolant sensor, but you may want to just try changing the thermostat first if you don't want to buy a whole new fan just yet.

Keep us updated!

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

Well there are 2 fans as you know...the one on the drivers side is the radiator fan and on the passenger side is the a/c condenser fan. I did replace the stat and cap anyways becase i got them at a good "price" (friend works at autoparts store) but we gave direct power to the fan and it didnt move....then i removed the relay that says "Rad. Fan Low" and suddenly the ac fan came on to compensate for the rad relay being out. So now at least the car wont overheat but now i gotta replace the coolant temp sensor and see what happens....ill keep you guys posted.
Ed

 

[Blitzeclips]

If the car suddenly shuts off and your fan never worked, you may want to check that head for warping. If you continued driving without a radiator fan, the temps would be almost unbearable to the point of warpage.

If you have no power to the drivers side fan, and it is aftermarket, just use the original harness from your stock fan and solder it. Worked fine for me.

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

Car wasnt driven much with this problem and when we found out it was overheating to the point of the overflow steaming it was at my friends garage so the car didnt go through too much trauma.....thank god cause i just put a freshly rebuilt head on it about 800 miles ago. And no its still the factory fan .....speaking of which does anyone know if a fan from a neon or avenger will fit? I really need to get this running the wife needs it for work and i need to get it out of my friends garage...any info is apprettiated.
Ed

 

[VelocitàPaola]

If the car suddenly shuts off and your fan never worked, you may want to check that head for warping. If you continued driving without a radiator fan, the temps would be almost unbearable to the point of warpage.

Not necessarily, things would just get a little hot when the car isn't moving.

 

[4UH8ERS]

Like said before, the 95's are very notorious for ECU failure. It's symptoms usually consist of sputtering, dieing, then no start. There's no sure way to check the ECU. Although, you can disconnect the negative battery terminal to reset it. It's worth a shot.

I have a 95 also but have yet to see this problem. (knocks on wood)

If the car is dying only at idle try your o2 sensor

something to think about also would be the fact that you are saying you car overheated even though the gauge read the correct temp. If so, you may have a bad temp sensor which was previously mentioned. Your call will run hotter at idle and you mave have a sensor thats failing at idle becuase of the excesively high engine bay temps when not moving. not likely but possible.

 

[Blitzeclips]

OKay, apparently my posts just disappear out of nowhere.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

OKay, apparently my posts just disappear out of nowhere.

The off-topic ones did.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Jeez guys, what's happening here? We've always been able to discuss technical topics with maturity and open-mindedness here. Don't get frazzled by anything that happens here, you're not forced to post here, and I hope that you only do post because you enjoy the hobby and helping others. Let's try to stay a little more focused from here on out... ok?

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

Ok so heres an update....did an OBD2 scan tonight....no codes...wtf.?????
Ed

 

[TalonESIT]

Okay, now update with us on what you have done to the car so far.

Change coolant sensor? (Due to car shutting off)
Check o2 sensor? (Overheating)
Change thermostat? (Overheating)
Radiator fan? (Overheating)
Checked vacuum lines?(Due to car shutting off)

Does that sound correct so far?

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

Didnt change coolant temp sensor...since it didnt come up in the obd2 scan but i might still anyways....changed stat and cap....running the ac fan constantly for now til i get a fan....havent checked vac lines yet but will get on that tomorrow or wed....still think the problem is elsewhere...but i am running out of options....
Ed

 

[Blitzeclips]

The off-topic ones did.

Are you kidding me? WTF OKay.

Anyways, back to the OP, why don't you have a driver's side fan working? You should be able to buy an aftermarket and wire it up within 10 minutes.

Maybe you o2 is all gunked up with carbon. If the sensor hasn't been changed, you may want to check that to say the least.

Check the voltage in your alternator or battery yet? My car had about the ame symptoms (where the car would just shut off) and it turned out, my battery was dead. Wierd, because it had no reason to be dead, but it was. Charged it up and everything was good to go.

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

OK heres an update....replaced the fan...no more overheating....car was EXTREMELY hard to keep running until it warmed up and we revved it a bit. Now today my wife was driving and it died when she was moving?? Its throwing a code for an EGR valve leak...dunno if that has anything to do with it. And also the throwout bearing is bad ( DONT USE THROWOUT BEARING WITH ANY EBAY CLUTCH KIT) ahhh fun fun fun....
Ed

 

[bullettdsm]

The overheating issues seem to be fixed so let's look at the shutting off.

Just to clarify, when it shuts off do you lose all dash lights etc. or does it just stall out and the warning lights come on (you say it shuts off like it gets unplugged)? The reason I am asking this (not to be too simple but) is if you are losing all lights etc., then you can isolate it as an electrical problem. Which could be as simple as a corroded wire or a broken wire or as bad as an ECU.

As you probably know from the 4g63 those coolant temp sensors can cause all kind of goofy stuff when they go bad with the 1g. I haven't run into that problem with the 420a (he, of course, knocks on wood - we should have an icon for that - oops tangent ). With the history given, it may be worth your while to replace it anyway.

If the EGR has a break somewhere in the line or the connection this can cause a vacuum leak. But that normally gives you a strange idle (high, wavering, low etc.). It would be very unusual if the egr was signalling for the engine to shut down. If that was the case 95% of the people on this board would not have a running dsm .

It sounds like you have the background/ability but sometimes we over look the simple stuff. You double checked connections etc and looked to be sure that none are frayed or loose, yes?

I'll leave it at that for now,

MB

 

[AWDphantomTSI]

When it shuts off the lights and everything stay on its just like turning the key back while its driving/idleing. Yea im about ready to go replace that sensor even though its not throwing a code...this went bad on my 1g and it made the car run like complete crap. Yea....all that time and work into doin a motor swap with a new clutch, waterpump, all timing components, and a freaking $20 part that i gotta pull the tranny off to fix goes bad in under 2k miles....i guess its not as bad as last month when the bolt that holds the timing belt idler pulley snapped....due to someone else doing a timing belt and over tightening/stripping it. That led to a new head and no car for a week and us short about $300....I love DSM's.....
Ed

 

[Blitzeclips]

Check your battery and alternator. Take it to a shop and see if they can test the charging/starting system for you. It's gotta be something ecectrical, and if your battery and or alternator are going out on you, these would be the signs...