Stroking/Boring the 420A

[Focker420]

I was wondering a few things about what i should do with by block, What is the max u can bore and stroke the 420a block.
Also is it worth it to do, what kinda whps am i lookin to find with the bore/stroke.

Also i don't want to have to get a new crank, i am pulling the engine out next weekend and am gettin the parts ordered now, and am stuck on the pistions / what i should do about stroking it. i want to get je pistions with a 8.1/1 compresion crower rods but if i stroke it i have to get over sized pistions and don't know if its worth the hastle so anyone who has a stoker engine already any tips would be helpful.

ty Natedogg

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Boring your cylinders doesn't add power, it just makes the cylinder walls clean and true. You should bore the walls out as little as possible (no more than ~0.050"). If the engine you're building had no wall damage, I'd say get the 0.020" pistons (get your machine shop to tell you what size pistons to order).

Stroked engines, on the other hand, are quite a complex subject. Strokers add displacement to the engine, so your turbo spools faster, and you get more torque (which may or may not be a good thing with a FWD drive car). By their nature, they make the pistons move a greater distance in the same amount of time (hence, the increased stroke). This effectively means the pistons are moving faster, which lowers your redline a bit.

Howell Automotive sells a nice 2.2L stroker kit, and there was a factory 2.4L stroked 420A available in some of the Chrysler cloud cars (although this swap requires quite a bit of knowledge on the subject).

There are plenty of great discussions on strokers both here and on 2GNT. If you do your research, you'll have all the information to make the decision on your own.

Personally, since my car is FWD, I opted not to go with a stroker so I could keep a high redline and make more top end power. The down side; it'll take a little more to keep my turbo spooled, and I need to rev a little higher on launches... that's fine by me.

 

[talon749]

sorry to hijack this, but why exactally would more TQ on a FWD car be a bad thing? tranction? please let me know!

 

[TalonESIT]

sorry to hijack this, but why exactally would more TQ on a FWD car be a bad thing? tranction? please let me know!

You guessed correct! Too much torque makes it a bit more difficult for a good launch.

 

[Blitzeclips]

I HIGHLY recommend the stroker. If the motor is out now, I would go ahead and get it 2.2.

I've raced MANY 420as with more mod then my car AFTER my 2.2 swap, and you really can feel the difference. For the most past, well, TECHNICALLY they offer %10 more HP as well...

Also, do some research on the Longer Rods. It'll help torque wise as well as getting off the line. 2.2L stroker + long rods= MORE power

 

[Focker420]

OK so stoker is good idea. I perfer not to bore the cylinders because i don't want to tamper with the integrity of the cylinder walls. especially since i am turboing the car. Now about that stroker kit what am i looking at price wise and is it possiable to stoke it myself at my shop or do i have to send the block out to a machine shop?

 

[XMasta19]

...what's wrong with getting bored out cylinders???

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I think you misunderstood what I said... Get the cylinder walls bored. That's what gives your piston rings a clean surface to mate to while breaking in. Plus, after more than 100,XXX original miles, cylinder walls may become out of taper, or out of round, which isn't good. So, get them bored, that way you'll know you have a perfectly round and straight cylinder to start with. Just don't get them bored beyond what's needed. I'd say a 0.050" overbore is the upper limit.

 

[Focker420]

so u tellin me i have to bore it anyway to true up the cylinder walls and about the stroker kit???? can it be done without machine shop or a new crankshaft?. And if i am boring just to true up the walls then i shouldn't need over sized pistions i can just use the regular je low comp pistions right?

ty Nate

 

[4UH8ERS]

so u tellin me i have to bore it anyway to true up the cylinder walls and about the stroker kit???? can it be done without machine shop or a new crankshaft?. And if i am boring just to true up the walls then i shouldn't need over sized pistions i can just use the regular je low comp pistions right?

ty Nate

After reading that I would recommend you keep it stock.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

After reading that I would recommend you keep it stock.

A little sarcastic, but he has a valid point...

Yes, if you bore the cylinders out, you'll need larger diameter pistons. JE charges the same for their std. bore pistons as they do for their 0.040" pistons, so this shouldn't matter.

The whole point of a stroker is that the piston stroke is increasesd, which is accomplished by larger throws on the crank. Thus, the only way to stroke an engine is by using a different/custom crank. Mind you, using a different crank often requires different rods, which then in turn, may require different pisonts. If you buy the Howell kit, it includes everything that's necessary.

 

[Focker420]

Hokay so i was checking out the Howell kit and the 2.2l stroker kit look very nice.
this is the one I'm thinking http://www.howellautomotive.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=383

hope that worked?
i have a couple of questions about the high volume oil pump. Am i running a risk of running the pan empty when I'm high rpm and the oil is thinned out, of getting a dry suck and slipping a new bearing.
i got a decent list for my turbo set up but am still looking for a good reliable t3/t4 kit with all the goodies for a stage 3 setup. and vendors would be appreciated

Ty Nacdsm

 

[VelocitàPaola]

i have a couple of questions about the high volume oil pump. Am i running a risk of running the pan empty when I'm high rpm and the oil is thinned out, of getting a dry suck and slipping a new bearing.

No...

i got a decent list for my turbo set up but am still looking for a good reliable t3/t4 kit with all the goodies for a stage 3 setup. and vendors would be appreciated

Ty Nacdsm

What is a "stage 3" setup?

 

[Focker420]

No...



What is a "stage 3" setup?

http://www.hahnracecraft.com/auto/eclipse/eclipsestage3.htm

the stage 3 is built up bottom end internals and comes with fmic, fmu, fpr, and fuel pump...

I want the t3/t4 kit preferably with the Ic piping because im not much of a metal fab guy and don't have a place to bend pipe so would be nice. Im sure i can find a mandral bender somewhere in the city. Also hopefully the kit comes with a exhast manifold to match the 420a head.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Oh... you're referring to Hahn's "stages"? I knew you were probably referring to what they call stages, but for future reference, "stages" are a relatively meaningless method of categorization. The definition of "stage 2" or "stage 3" can vary widely between any two 2GNTers. Most of us around here prefer to just say "turbo and a built bottom end," or something of the like.

Anyway, if you're looking for absolutely complete "kits," you should probably buy Hahn's Stage 2 420A Eclipse Turbosystem (referring to stages is okay when you're talking specifically about one of Hahn's products , and a bottom end rebuild kit/assembled shortblock from Howell. Those are the only two companies that seem to offer very comprehensive kits. Other than that, you're likely to need to shop around for a few parts that aren't included in whatever "kit" you buy.

 

[Focker420]

my project has taken a turn for the worse. I got my license suspended car is parked and i got to get a restricted license to drive my truck to work, and i have to drive cars in and out of my bay at work. Son of a bi*** too many tickets, i swear that my car is flagged and cop just follow me to pull me over when they see me.WTF this BS is putting me back $1500 on the car funds so I'm busting OT at work for a bit now.

sorry about the rant and rave I'm pretty stressed out, but ya car is going in Saturday and I'm pulling the engine. Bring it home and got the engine stand ready.

As for the stages comment i was just relating to the kit that Hahn's made as per the components of the upgrading. But ya turboing and a complete bottom end kit with stoker
i have the head built up already so i just need the turbo kit and the Howell kit.

I was thinking of more of a Garrett turbo what do u think of this looks kinda sketchy to me
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...egory=33742&ssPageName=STORE:PROMOBOX:NEWLIST

I appreciate all the help VelocitàPaola

Ty Nate

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Absolutely everything in that kit looks like a knockoff... in fact, that turbo looks glued together. I think that statement alone should tell exactly how I feel about these kinds of kits.

 

[Focker420]

Wow your quick on that reply like 10 min not even

ya though that was a pretty sketchy set up with the Chinese writing in the back and all but check this out then this is a decent set up if its real and also i can pick and choose my fuel delivery set up too.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Trea...oryZ6755QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Of coarse a few upgades like steel braded lines and such.

let me know what u think or if u know of a better set up throw down a link.

Ty Nate

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Better... you're right though, I don't think it's complete. You might need to buy a few extra things.

 

[WIDECLIPSE]

I think there is a little confusion on what boring the cylinders is. There is a difference between boring and honing the cylinder walls. All the boring process does is create a larger bore for bigger pistons. Honing the cylinder walls is what you do if you're just reringing the pistons so they have a nice cross section pattern to wear down so that they seat properly. Also, boring the cylinder walls does increase displacement, though not much in these small motors. Increasing displacement does increase horsepower, however minimal it may be in this particular case.

Just posting this in case a newbie reads this thread later on down the road.

 

[BigRand]

Absolutely everything in that kit looks like a knockoff... in fact, that turbo looks glued together. I think that statement alone should tell exactly how I feel about these kinds of kits.

L, Dont' knock the knock off's. I've got a friend of mine, running low 11's high 10's on a china made ebay turbo.....he is just waiting for it to explode on him..

 

[XMasta19]

I want this manifold hehe...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=120041639864&rd=1&rd=1

 

[Focker420]

Better... you're right though, I don't think it's complete. You might need to buy a few extra things.

Ya this kit looks a little more genuine so im thinking this is one to work with decient price and looks to be complete for the most part. now that i have the turbo kit and the bottom end kit in view, Any advice on the type of fuel upgrades and where the deals are goin down . I also need some sturdy headbolts and a really good headgasket. (had my head done like a year ago and head has been leaking for a while now was just a gasket set u could pick up a any napa or parts source ect.

TY NATE

 

[XMasta19]

ARP head studs and OEM MLS headgasket FTW

Oh yeah...Megasquirt FTMFW too hehe


Seriously though...I want that manifold

 

[XMasta19]

blah blah blah check out this shiznit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...egory=33742&ssPageName=STORE:PROMOBOX:NEWLIST

You're the man Xavier!

oooh, you can actually just buy the manifold...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-9...2QQihZ016QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem