Can anyone help diagnos this problem??

GSX99Eclipse · 11-16-2005, 03:17 PM

I was driving down the road in the 98 RS(T) and all of a sudden the car just died. I was not on it or anything. I limped it into a parking lot where I came to a stop. Anyways, now when I try to start it, it won't turn over. I have fuel pressure...it just seems like it is not firing. Has anyone ever had a problem like this? If I was running too rich does anyone think the spark plugs could just fouled? I did not smell fuel like it was "flooded" or anything. Could the coil pack just go out while I was driving? Thanks for the help anyone.

weith1111 · 11-16-2005, 03:20 PM

Did you dash lights/radio flicker or dim?

It has to be an electrical problem, if the motor would have seized or something the experience would have been a bit different.

Check your plugs and fuses. Make sure something didn't come disconnected. Check your battery and alternator.

GSX99Eclipse · 11-16-2005, 03:23 PM

All the lights and everything come on. At first I had a stupid idea that something got messed up wth the turbo timer and that it what messing with something (cause the car just shut off) But it was not that. Everything is working properly except it just wont fire up. It is cranking and everything and the starter is working...like I said, it just won't fire up. Also from my experience in the past, when my alternator belt broke my battery light came on with warning letting me know something was up, and it ran until the battery died.

selmerguy · 11-16-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSX99Eclipse

All the lights and everything come on. At first I had a stupid idea that something got messed up wth the turbo timer and that it what messing with something (cause the car just shut off) But it was not that. Everything is working properly except it just wont fire up. It is cranking and everything and the starter is working...like I said, it just won't fire up. Also from my experience in the past, when my alternator belt broke my battery light came on with warning letting me know something was up, and it ran until the battery died.

if your sure it's spark check your cam position sensor, crank angle sensor and your coil pack harness. this is after you check coilpack, plugs, wires.

GSX99Eclipse · 11-16-2005, 04:42 PM

I just went a took out the plugs. They were pretty black but no oil or anything just burnt. I cleaned them off and put them back in and nothing still. I took #1 out and cheked to see if I had spark and nothing. The tops of all 4 plugs look like they were a greyish/white color like they got really hot...would this keep them from sparking or is this most likely coil pack problem? The car sounds like it is going to start but never kicks over..so im not sure.

BigRand · 11-16-2005, 04:44 PM

I had a problem like this, but I ended up swapping in my rebuilt motor so that fixed it. If you let it sit for a while (like a day) and then come back and try to start it does it start up? Cause thats what mine did, but it died shortly after.

You live in WA, I live in seattle right now, but I travel back and fourth between here and tacoma, maybe I could come check it out if ## near by.

bullettdsm · 11-16-2005, 04:55 PM

You say that you had no spark when testing #1. Did you do the spark plug wire to ground test? It does sound like coil pack if there is no spark at all. I'll ask the obvious; are you sure that you did not skip a few teeth on the Timing belt? Maybe you could not find a good connection for the plug wire test? Hey, food for thought.
MB

selmerguy · 11-16-2005, 05:21 PM

check all the wires going to the afore mentioned sensors. pay specific attention the the three going to the coil pack. mine got burnt on the egr tube before i blocked it off.

also if you can get a coilpack from a friend try that and see if your shut us busted.

GSX77901 · 11-16-2005, 05:54 PM

Check the Clutch safety switch and take that crap off. I had the same problem and i took that crap off and it Stared. Here is a link and How To and clip how to do it http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587

Old Mitsu Tech · 11-16-2005, 08:13 PM

I take it the engine will turn over with the starter? If it died going down the road, the first thing that would come to mind is the engine fuse. Check that first. It's a 30 amp large type fuse. Secondly I would listen to the engine to see if it sounds normal when cranking. If it's nasally, whiny then the possibility of a broken timing belt exists. If the compression test reveals good compression, I would look at the cmp ckp sensor. You can use a scanner, borrowed or rented and see if you have a tach signal to the scanner through the pcm. Check for codes in the pcm. I will have to look at my schematic if none of these are it.

Good Luck

420aVOS · 11-17-2005, 02:16 AM

ok just a quick bit to a question you asked, yes your coil pack can just die, but if all 4 cyl are down then it would be a power feed problem and you would have a check engine light

GSX99Eclipse · 11-17-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 420aVOS

ok just a quick bit to a question you asked, yes your coil pack can just die, but if all 4 cyl are down then it would be a power feed problem and you would have a check engine light

I don't have a check engine light on but at the same time...doesn't the check engine light only come on while the car is running? The spark plugs on the top look like they are pretty burnt (white/grey) like they got really hot, im gonna try to replace them and see if that helps, if not ill try and use another coil pack and if not that then I guess its tear down time to look at everything.

dr1665 · 11-17-2005, 11:09 AM

Check your main engine fuse and make sure your ASD and fuel pump relays are connected properly on the firewall. Car won't run without any one of these disconnected.

After that, I would trace the harness from the CPS and CMP to see if it's shorted on the EGR pipe at all. If those all look good (or even further, you get a meter and backprobe to them to see that the ECU is getting signal from them), then you're probably looking at a loss of engine timing. It's happened to the best of us and vexed the living shit out of us when we were in your shoes too.

GSX99Eclipse · 11-17-2005, 11:20 AM

The main problem im looking at first is eliminating the issue of why I have no spark..Im obviously thinking that this is the whole problem right now. I believe that if I jumped timing or something along those lines that I would still have spark, it would just be my firing order would be off causing rough idle or just no idle but it would still try to fire I would think. Im just learning here so I am not shutting anyone's theory out by any means. Im just trying to figure out what problems would cause me to get no spark at all. I was thinking that if the timing was off or if there was a harness issue there would not be a steady crank when im trying to turn it over. The car has a steady repetitive crank just does not seem to have spark. A friend of mine actually lost compression in a couple cylinders on his 1GA and you could clearly tell when he was cranking it over the random and unsteady cranking. I am honestly looking at the issues of firing right now. Please feel free to tell me if im wrong cause I need to learn...But if the timing was off wouldn't the plugs still fire?

GSX99Eclipse · 11-17-2005, 05:48 PM

I replaced the spark plugs and it did not do anything. I unplugged the harness to the Coil Pack and hooked it back in and the car started right up but as soon as I took off and the car saw boost it shut off again. I unplugged it again and tried to limp it home but as soon as I got in 3rd gear it just died again. After that, I unplugged the harness again and plugged it back in and it would not start again. I am thinking this is the Coil Pack now so im just gonna replace it and hope thats it.

selmerguy · 11-17-2005, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSX99Eclipse

I replaced the spark plugs and it did not do anything. I unplugged the harness to the Coil Pack and hooked it back in and the car started right up but as soon as I took off and the car saw boost it shut off again. I unplugged it again and tried to limp it home but as soon as I got in 3rd gear it just died again. After that, I unplugged the harness again and plugged it back in and it would not start again. I am thinking this is the Coil Pack now so im just gonna replace it and hope thats it.

before you buy a new coil check the wires!!!! then buy a new coil if the wires are good.

GSX99Eclipse · 11-18-2005, 08:03 PM

I switched the plug wires and it started but did the same thing upon acceleration..im gonna try the coil pack now...my only concern is why the car will idle until a load is put on it and then it dies...if anyone has any ideas them please throw them at me...it might die after idling for awhile but it has not yet, I just start it and after a bit of idle I try to drive it and it dies so I dont know.

GSX99Eclipse · 11-19-2005, 05:24 PM

Update: So im not thinking it is the coil pack anymore but Ill give you guys some more info and see what you think...So last night I pulled the coil pack off to put the one I got off another 420a (2GA) just to find out that the harness is different...anyways, I cleaned my off a bit and reinstalled in and then it started right up. I pulled it out onto the road and got on it and it didn't die. I thought maybe just cleaning it helped or something. Anyways, I drove it for about a mile and a half and it died again. I unplugged the negative to the battery and the coil pack harness and it started right up again but once I put a major load on it, it just dies. Anyone have any idea of what it could be? I started it this morning and it will idle all day long, I ever revved it up quite a few times to see if it would die but nothing. The car is misfiring when it is cold but once it gets warmed up it runs right. The RPMs dont jump around or anything. Im lost now as what the problem could be..just once a load it put on it...it dies.

XxrusianxX · 11-19-2005, 06:57 PM

Primary coil resistance Ù 0.51--0.61
Secondary coil resistance kÙ 11.5--13.5
Spark plug gap mm (in.) 1.22--1.35 (.048--.053)
start here and see what you come up with, sounds like a problem with the ignition wiring
here is a little information on how the ignition system work, see if you can conclude anything from it.

IGNITION SYSTEM

The 2.0L non-turbo engine uses an electronic ignition
system. Basic ignition timing is not adjustable.
The powertrain control module (PCM) judges spark
advance. The ignition system’s three main components
are the coil pack, crankshaft position sensor,
and camshaft position sensor.
Both the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft
position sensor are “Hall-effect” devices. The camshaft
position sensor and crankshaft position sensor
generate pulses that are input to the PCM.
The PCMdetermines crankshaft position fromthese
sensors.
The PCM calculates injector sequence and ignition
timing from crankshaft position.
The engine’s firing order is 1-3-4-2.

XxrusianxX · 11-19-2005, 07:01 PM

perhaps if the pcm does not get any input from the sensors it goes in to fail safe mode to avoid detonation from early ignition, this could cause no spark. I would say, get that good old multimeter out and start poking around. i gave some information for starters up top. good luck

bfdahl · 11-19-2005, 08:36 PM

the crank postion sensor on the A420 is notorious for this.

no signal, no spark!

selmerguy · 11-19-2005, 09:37 PM

[QUOTE=XxrusianxX]Primary coil resistance Ù 0.51--0.61
Secondary coil resistance kÙ 11.5--13.5
Spark plug gap mm (in.) 1.22--1.35 (.048--.053)
start here and see what you come up with, sounds like a problem with the ignition wiring
here is a little information on how the ignition system work, see if you can conclude anything from it.

since your a turbo 420a i would ignore those spark plug gaps.

Defiant · 11-20-2005, 06:29 AM

Is your battery secured? Is the positive terminal grounding against the hood or a strut bar?

dr1665 · 11-21-2005, 09:44 AM

Sounds like you need to trace that harness from the CMP and CAS. When one or the other shorts out intermittently (as against the EGR pipe - most common culprit), there will be no CEL and the car will die instantly. The ECU needs a crank and cam reference signal to determine where things are in the firing order.

If your timing was off, you would not have compression and the car would run like total shit at best. Also, I saw you mention that the car died upon seeing boost. What are FCD are you using? You are using a FCD, right?

The ECU is dropping spark on you because it's either seeing boost or not getting a stable signal from either the crank angle or cam position sensor. The car will run, albeit shitty, with pretty much anything else unplugged - IAT, IAC, CLT, etc., but lost your CAS or CMP and the ECU will NOT fire a damn thing. Your saying the car restarted after you disconnected the CMP leads me to believe that there is a short in that branch of the harness. When you unplugged the sensor, you could have moved the wire off the metal sutrface it was shorting to. When you drove, the wire vibrated against that surface, shorted the circuit and the ECU said goodnight.

Check that harness!