3 of the 4 injectors not firing up right.

[matt98eclipse]

Hey i got a buddy that bought a 95 awd tsi. Car runs like crap really bad. Started doing some test on it and found out that cylinders 2 3 4 injectors are not firing up. The car has a 6 bolt swap in it. What could be causing this issue. Could be that 3 of the 4 stock 450cc injectors not firing up or somethings messed up in the wireing harness???

 

[blackhawkgsx]

Does it run at all ? did you guys do the swap? if so is the wiring for the ignition done? if not the firing order is wrong? more info please!

How do you know its the injectors?

 

[matt98eclipse]

Did not do the 6 bolt swap. Car does run but runs like a crap. Reason im leaded towards a fuel issue is cause while the car was running i pulled off cylinder #4 injector clip... no change in the way car ran so i knew that cylinder is dead so then i go to cylinder #3 pulled injector clip...Still no change in way motor ran so i knew that cylinder is dead. SO i moved to cylinder #2 pull that injector clip......Car still sounded the same so that cylinder is dead!! So i knew for sure that 3 injectors arent fireing up and the car STILL RUNS!!!! So i move onto cylinder #1 and pull that injector clip and finally the car shuts off right away. So i know for fact that cylinders 432 are dead due to injectors not fireing up right!!


Whats your guys thoughts.. Im leading towards something to do with the 6bolt swap someone didnt do the wireing right.

 

[gofer]

What about spark on those cylinders?

 

[Killa_dsm]

Have you checked if you are getting spark in those cylinders?

Edit: I guess Corey got to it before me. Damn slow iPhone!!! Lol

 

[matt98eclipse]

Hey corey yea i checked for spark and all cylinders were getting spark. Although it it might have looked like some were getting little more then others. But i saw spark coming from all 4 cylinders.

 

[gofer]

Whats up? Use this post to find out whats going on with your buddies car that way you can narrow it down a bit. Its not exactly the same symptoms your describing but I can't copy and paste picture links from work...

Check Spark/Fuel How-To

 

[matt98eclipse]

Ok cool thanks man.

Very good information in the write up corey thanks bud!

 

[matt98eclipse]

Ok guys just a update. I fallowed your steps to check the fuel and spark corey and the ohms all checked out good and right were they were suppose to be on the injectors and injector ristor box.


I got the car running on 2 cylinders now. Cylinder 1 and 4 are firing up now and all i did was switch around the spark plug wires.

Im not to sure of the firing order on this coil pack cause its got a really weird coil pack and intanke manifold on the car.

Anybody know the right firing order for this 95 talon,coil pack??

Heres a pic of the intake manifold and coil and some odd mdp sensor thing on this car.

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[gofer]

AHHH. Thats that picture you sent me on my phone, it was so small I couldn't see it. The IM is a Evo III/RVR and the stock 2g coil pack bracket doesn't mount to it, so its just a Evo III CP bracket too. The firing order remains the same on a '95-'96 DSM, if it has the '95-'96 CAS, as any other DSM which is 4-1-2-3. He, however, does NOT have a stock CAS on there because I see the 1g CAS so the plug wires need to be EXACTLY opposite of what stock is. Here is what it should look like man...

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Besides all that, the car looks like a mess, its no wonder its firing on (2) cylinders with wiring like I see in those pictures.

 

[matt98eclipse]

Thanks so much corey thats just what i was looking for! I just got done going threw all the dam 20 pages about the evo3 intake manifold for some spark plug routing with the 95's and not 1 pic . Ill go give this a shot and see what happens bro.

 

[gofer]

Pull the CAS off, turn the key to the "ON" position, and then spin the CAS with your finger listening for the injectors pulsing as you turn it. When you install it though, be sure to you line it up correctly for TDC and then check timing for 5* TDC using a light. How To Set Base Timing My guess is that the CAS is good, it just isn't wired in correctly and needs re-wired...

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[gofer]

I'm going to try and knock out EVERYTHING it could possibly be, both ignition and fuel. The quickest and easiest to check is ignition at the cylinders so I'll start there, and I suggest you start all over. Who knows if something was missed or overlooked, I don't know how many times I was scratching my head for days trying to find something like this and it ended up being simple.

VERIFY ECU OPERATION

1. Turn the key to the "ON" position and watch for the CEL to illuminate, it should come on for approximately 5 seconds and then go off. In addition to watching the CEL, also watch the stock boost gauge, the needle should move halfway up the gauge.
   • It NEVER lights up: The ECU might have a blown sensor ground or the 20A MOTOR fuse, in the fusebox under the hood, is blown or missing (my friends like taking mine). The 2g ECU sensor ground is Pin 92 (2g ECU Pinout) and can be visually checked by pulling the casing off the ECU and looking at the solder run. Below is a picture of a REPAIRED sensor ground that was blown, thanks ECMLink! You can check continuity with a multimeter between pin 92 and the solder point where the red arrows pointing.
   • It DOESN'T go off: The ECU has a DTC stored on it and you'll want to hook up a scanner to see what it is.

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VERIFY SPARK AT ALL (4) CYLINDERS

1. You'll want to check that spark is getting to the engine as its turning over. Everyone has their own way to do this however, I've found the easiest is to use two people to make it effective. One person should be sitting in the front driverseat to crank the car over, the other should be under the hood watching for the spark. To do it, remove a spark plug (start at 1 or 4 and work your way down the engine) and plug it back into the plug wire after its out of the motor. While holding the spark plug wire, ground the threads of the spark plug on the valve cover, then cue the person to crank the car over. Verify that there is spark between the electrodes, then repeat for the other (3) cylinders and write down your results.
   You might need to just swap plug wires depending on the model year of your 2g and the CAS you're using, follow the below figure and make sure they are hooked up correctly.
   • None or TWO have spark: Continue to step (2).
   • ALL have spark: Jump to VERIFY FUEL.
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2. Its time to start testing a few sensors, pay close attention to the following links and how-to's. Its very easy to skip a step, which will give you different results, pay attention to detail and take your time.
   • Coil Pack testing
   • Power Transistor (PT) testing
   • 1g CAS testing / 2g CAS & CPS testing
   • Noise Filter (Capacitor)- Reduces "noise" created by the coil/alternator on 12v power line. Ensure its plugged in and grounded/bolted to something so its secured in your engine bay.

VERIFY FUEL AT ALL (4) CYLINDERS

1. First you'll want to make sure you're even getting gas to the fuel rail, once again you'll want someone helping you do this. Remove the fuel line going to the passengerside of the fuel rail, be careful doing it because if there is pressure in the rail it will spray fuel. Once you remove the line going into the rail, put it into a small gas tank (or old cup if you don't mind ruining it) and have the person helping you crank the car over a few times.
   • NO fuel:Check for 12v at your fuel pump connector when the engines cranking, you'll want to check for voltage at the pin going to the BLK/BLU wire.
     • 12v is there: Replace the fuel pump.
     • 12v is NOT there: Pull your MFI/MPI relay and test it OR replace it.
   • Fuel: If there is fuel to the rail then put the line back on (make sure the o-ring isn't cut) and tighten it up so it doesn't leak. Un-bolt the fuel rail from the head, leaving the injectors in the rail and plugged in, after you remove the rail. Set the injectors on the head, facing the front of the car, once again placing them toward a bucket so it can catch the fuel as it sprays out. Have someone crank the car and watch the injectors, ensure ALL of them have a nice spray pattern and pulse as the engines cranking. Wearing eye protection while doing this check isn't a bad idea either, there is a chance you get sprayed with fuel.
     • Some or NONE work: Don't give up yet, there are still a few things to test with a multimeter to make sure its working.
       • Test your injector resistor pack
         
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       • Measure resistance across the injector terminal with the plug disconnected, it should be 2-3 ohms across it.
       • Test the MFI/fuel pump relay
         
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     • ALL of the injectors work: Put everything back together, making sure none of the o-rings are torn, and go to the next step.
     
     CHECK MECHANICAL TIMING
     1. 2g timing belt replacement
        
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     2. If you've got a '97-'99 CAS, check that the camshaft position cylinder is oriented the way it should be on the intake cam. The paint stripe on it should be FACING the CAS when the engine is at TDC, like so...
        
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     3. If you've got a 1g CAS, make sure its at TDC whit the engine and the timing marks on it are lined up as well.
        
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     IF EVERYTHING YOU'VE DONE SO FAR HAS CHECKED GOOD DO A COMPRESSION CHECK.
     1. Disconnect your spark plug cables, spark plugs, & CPS connector to disable all fuel/spark getting to the motor.
     2. Thread in the compression tester in one of the spark plug holes, with someone cranking the car and giving it WOT, measure the compression on each cylinder.
        • Upper Limit: 178psi
        • Lower Limit: 133psi

Hopefully with ALL of the above information it will be enough for you to find the issue. If anyone see's anything else they can add PLEASE add it!