Good autox/road race tires and brake pads

[Scott McIntyre]

FYI, there's a group buy coming up for Carbotech brake pads. You get 20% off. Deadline is February 28, 2010. Here's a link with more info:

Carbotech Brakes - Group Buy

 

[snowborder714]

Thanks for the heads up Scott! I'll have to check out their selection and prices. Any specific pad(s) you'd recommend looking into?


Also, I've been doing my research/calculations on my tire list recently and have narrowed it down a good bit. I've decided that a 245 is what I want to run and this would be the widest tire I would/could run on these wheels. Anything more and I'll have issues with clearances with either the knuckle or the fender. My calculations have been based off of the info in this thread.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...tions/286685-will-these-wheels-tires-fit.html

It looks like 245/40 tires have wider section widths than a 245/45 tire by 2.54mm or 5.08mm, depending on the tire. The 40's are also a few bucks more than the 45's. Anyone know the reason for this?

At this point, I'm leaning towards the Direzza Z1 Star Specs. Either size should have enough clearance and they're pretty reasonably priced at about $150/tire.

 

[Scott McIntyre]

Thanks for the heads up Scott! I'll have to check out their selection and prices. Any specific pad(s) you'd recommend looking into?

Personally, I'm going with Carbotech AX6 (front & rear) for the street and autox, and Carbotech XP16 (front) / XP12 (rear) for the track.

Keep in mind that I have big 275-width R-compound tires, so I can get away with such aggressive track pads. Those running street tires may want to try something a little milder least you be locking up everytime you touch the brake pedal.

You can contact Carbotech and ask for their advice based on your setup & needs. I've found them very helpful via email: [email protected]

 

[eclipsh]

Just wanted to confirm your 245/40 fitting on Evo wheels. If you look at the picture below the darker section on the knuckle arm is where the tire was cleaning the dirt off. This is with my 245/40 Kumho SPT tires with the 95 AWD front/rear suspension. Clearance in the front isn't much better.

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Lots of great info on tires/brakes on here. Thanks to everyone for sharing their hard/expensively earned knowledge.

 

[snowborder714]

So you're saying they do fit but they're extremely close clearance wise?

 

[housegsx]

Damn, mine aren't even close to rubbing and my backspacing at 40mm isn't even as aggresive as Evo wheels. You sure you don't have a worn wheel bearing or something Nick?

Also, aren't the profile of some 2g rear knuckles different than others? By model year.

 

[snowborder714]

Yes, the early 2g's don't have as much clearance as the late 2g's.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Damn, mine aren't even close to rubbing and my backspacing at 40mm isn't even as aggresive as Evo wheels. You sure you don't have a worn wheel bearing or something Nick?

Also, aren't the profile of some 2g rear knuckles different than others? By model year.

Yes 2gA has less clearance in the rear than 2gb.

Heres my guide of what 100% fits and I used on my vehicle with no rubbing, no spacers, and no rolling of fenders. My car was NOT slammed but was midly droppped on Konis+ Ground Controls. These were confirmed fitments personal experience on a 98 Eclipse GSX: (im tired of hearing, do evo wheels fit, does this fit? Look at this list)

17x9 +35 245/40 Toyos
18x8.5 +30 235/40 Kumho ASX
17x8 Evo 8 wheels 245/40 toyos fit
17x8 Evo wheels 225/40 Hoosier R6
17x8.5 +30 235/40 Toyos

 

[housegsx]

Brian, what wheels are you going to use? The Direzzas could have a slightly different profile and fit just fine, who knows. At most you might have to run a pair of 3mm spacers on the back if you're ok with doing that.

 

[eclipsh]

So you're saying they do fit but they're extremely close clearance wise?

Yes, 245/40 on Evo wheels fit fine just very tight with our knuckles. The rubbing is right where the raised lettering is at on the tire. I think it is just the little rubber fingers rubbing as it isn't doing anything to the paint.

Damn, mine aren't even close to rubbing and my backspacing at 40mm isn't even as aggresive as Evo wheels. You sure you don't have a worn wheel bearing or something Nick?

Also, aren't the profile of some 2g rear knuckles different than others? By model year.

Wheel bearings are fine. the Evo wheels are a 38 offset if I remember right, so 2mm difference. As you stated and others below the 2ga knuckles have a little less clearance than the 2gb.

 

[snowborder714]

Dee, any reason you've just run a 40 AR on your tires and not a 45? Thanks for the list!

Brian, what wheels are you going to use? The Direzzas could have a slightly different profile and fit just fine, who knows. At most you might have to run a pair of 3mm spacers on the back if you're ok with doing that.

Evo 8 wheels - 17x8 +38. Didn't you read the first post?

Here's my calculations on the Direzza's.

Tire size - 245/40
Section width (measured at side walls) - 248.92mm
Difference (tire width as advertised vs. section width) - 3.92mm
Knuckle/Fender clearance (per wret's thread I posted above) - 11/5mm

So from the looks of that, I'd have about 2mm extra on each side of tire to worry about, but that's much less than the 11mm and 5mm he states, so I should be fine.


Tire size - 245/45
Section width (measured at side walls) - 246.38mm
Difference (tire width as advertised vs. section width) - 1.38mm
Knuckle/Fender clearance (per wret's thread I posted above) - 4/5mm

So from the looks of that, I'd have about .75mm extra on each side of tire to worry about, but that's much less than the 4mm and 5mm he states, so I should be fine.


I have these calculations for all the tires I looked at, if anyone wants to know it. Or I can figure it out for pretty much any tire/wheel combination, but only for a 2g.

Yes, 245/40 on Evo wheels fit fine just very tight with our knuckles. The rubbing is right where the raised lettering is at on the tire. I think it is just the little rubber fingers rubbing as it isn't doing anything to the paint.

Good to know. No abnormal wear/cording/etc. on the insides of the tires then? How low do you have your car and any camber adjustments?

 

[GreenGSX]

I got to this thread a little late but just as a FYI the One Lap VR4 used the star specs and we were really happy with them. Great hot, cold, dry. or wet and they wore very well.

I have a different brake set-up then you do but I have used all sorts of pads. For the One Lap we used DTC-60 and cheapo semi-metallics in the rear. I've also used HT10's, HP+. and PFC z-rated pads all of which work great on the street and on the track. The PFCZ pads are a street pads so there don't offer the performance of the track pads but they do work, they are much cheaper then track pads, and pretty easy to find.

If you are new to road racing or autocross I would really concentrate on maximizing your budget for time on track. I would suggest the star specs and the HP+ pads and try to use the money you saved on race tires to get to a HPDE event. Seat time is the most important mod a road racer can ever do.

Good luck.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

I honestly went 40 series for reduced flex in the sidewall, availablility of typical tires, and the looks (yes I dont want a big fattie).

A question that should come up from that is the rolling diameter between a 245/40/17 and 245/45. Thinking of it, I actually would have preferred a larger rolling diameter to help lengthen the gearing and stay in gear longer.

However I awlays got tires either from people or during race events I would get takeoffs and that simply was usually 245/40s or 225/40s. (BMW race teams typically running 225s or 245s in 17-inch sizes.)

You can actually see the rollover of even Hankook Ventus RS-2s in 245/40/17 on my M3 here..

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[eclipsh]

As far as ride height I'm at:

<img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/5/2/4/4/3/left_rear.jpg" alt="Left Rear" />


No abnormal wear or cording etc. I ran those tires on my Galant all summer without issues. I have a rub where the rear bumper cover bolts to the unibody inside the fender well but that may just be a Galant thing. I'll actually be raising the car up 1" once I can find an affordable way to do it (coilovers are at max height with 7" springs), mostly for ground clearance issues (longer wheel base = easier to high center going into my garage.)

 

[snowborder714]

I got to this thread a little late but just as a FYI the One Lap VR4 used the star specs and we were really happy with them. Great hot, cold, dry. or wet and they wore very well.

I have a different brake set-up then you do but I have used all sorts of pads. For the One Lap we used DTC-60 and cheapo semi-metallics in the rear. I've also used HT10's, HP+. and PFC z-rated pads all of which work great on the street and on the track. The PFCZ pads are a street pads so there don't offer the performance of the track pads but they do work, they are much cheaper then track pads, and pretty easy to find.

If you are new to road racing or autocross I would really concentrate on maximizing your budget for time on track. I would suggest the star specs and the HP+ pads and try to use the money you saved on race tires to get to a HPDE event. Seat time is the most important mod a road racer can ever do.

Good luck.

Thanks for the input Tim! I think I've been convinced (by you guys and my research) to get the Star Specs.

Maximizing the budget is always the plan

More seat time is the goal right now. I see NASA has a little "sale" going on for 3 different 2 day events in the Northeast region for $383 each. The one that is catching my eye is the Watkins Glen event in May since I think one day at the Glen was $350 last season. They also have events at the Pocono and NJMP for the same price ($250-275ish/day last season for those places). Hopefully I'll run into you at some point.

I honestly went 40 series for reduced flex in the sidewall, availablility of typical tires, and the looks (yes I dont want a big fattie).

A question that should come up from that is the rolling diameter between a 245/40/17 and 245/45. Thinking of it, I actually would have preferred a larger rolling diameter to help lengthen the gearing and stay in gear longer.

However I awlays got tires either from people or during race events I would get takeoffs and that simply was usually 245/40s or 225/40s. (BMW race teams typically running 225s or 245s in 17-inch sizes.)

Good reason for sidewall consideration.

But also a good point about the rolling diameter. I had been thinking about that a while ago, but it didn't pop into my head when considering these tires. Definitely something to consider.

What events do you usually get the takeoffs from - BMW? And how does that work? Do they sell them at a much cheaper price? Or do they just pitch them and you go and take them from a pile?

No abnormal wear or cording etc.

Good to know

 

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

NASARM events are generally about $280 for the weekend.

...damn I need to get to work on my car. Ugh.

 

[snowborder714]

Thanks for the heads up, but I don't think I have the Rocky Mountain region in my plans just yet

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Good reason for sidewall consideration.

But also a good point about the rolling diameter. I had been thinking about that a while ago, but it didn't pop into my head when considering these tires. Definitely something to consider.

What events do you usually get the takeoffs from - BMW? And how does that work? Do they sell them at a much cheaper price? Or do they just pitch them and you go and take them from a pile?



Good to know

MARRS Enduros, NASA weekends, SCCA weekends...etc.

At the enduros I got them for free from piles, in fact a few of em still had the remnants of stickers on them .

For NASA and SCCA weekends, typically a few bucks or for free depending on who it is. Someone is ALWAYS selling tires during the weekend.

 

[snowborder714]

I just ordered my 245/40/17 Star Specs from Discount Tire

They should be at my house by Wednesday/Thursday and will be mounted on the Evo wheels the following week. I'll be sure to post up some reviews this summer once I get out on the track.

 

[bvass]

Great choice. I have run those tires in both dry and wet and they are simply amazing.

 

[Calan]

Since you guys were talking about brakes in this thread as well, I thought I would include these links, in case you haven't seen them. Some pretty cool info on bedding in theory, switching between track and street pads, etc.

Removing the Mystery from Brake Pad Bed-In
StopTech's Recommended Procedure for Bedding-in Performance Brake Systems
Pad and Rotor Bed-In FAQ
The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System

 

[snowborder714]

I'd like say I really, really like the Star Specs. I put them on this weekend and took a test drive. They are a huge improvement over my 225 Kumho's. The car feels great, is very responsive, and sticks to the ground! I could tell they were going to stick well when I was driving out of my development and I heard it picking up a lot of little stones. I pushed it harder than I had before and held great. Just had one turn where I experienced some understeer, but that was at 60+ MPH on a 90*+ bend. I can't wait to get the DG suspension and SPC arms installed and get some more control over my alignment and hit the track

For anyone looking for some nice sticky tires, I'd recommend the Star Specs