Best road racing turbo on 2.4

[xloki77x]

Basically, the timing and low boost are both a lead in to the cooling issues so many of us face. Keeping exhaust temps low and reliability high is what I try and accomplish every time I visit the track. These are two things I have found help and if you start off with that mentality you learn what tuning is needed the more you get a feel for your motor and your car.

The transmission upgrade is going to be a must in your future. The stock center diff does not take kindly to extended periods of boost. Like mentioned previously, differentials are going to be the things that combat this. If you think about the powerband that will be used, you will quickly learn that you will spend very little time in 1st gear and almost never launching the car. Most of the time you will be in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear. These are the guys that need to be upgraded. You will hit 5th on some of these tracks, but for my trans build anyway, I will be focusing on the middle gears and the diffs. Just some more food for thought.

Pete

 

[Strm Trpr]

Basically, the timing and low boost are both a lead in to the cooling issues so many of us face. Keeping exhaust temps low and reliability high is what I try and accomplish every time I visit the track. These are two things I have found help and if you start off with that mentality you learn what tuning is needed the more you get a feel for your motor and your car.

The transmission upgrade is going to be a must in your future. The stock center diff does not take kindly to extended periods of boost. Like mentioned previously, differentials are going to be the things that combat this. If you think about the powerband that will be used, you will quickly learn that you will spend very little time in 1st gear and almost never launching the car. Most of the time you will be in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear. These are the guys that need to be upgraded. You will hit 5th on some of these tracks, but for my trans build anyway, I will be focusing on the middle gears and the diffs. Just some more food for thought.

Pete

Exactly, and FWIW, at Thunderhill, I almost never use 2nd gear unless someone is going slower thru a turn in front of me.
Remember, conservation of momentum is key thru the turns.
3rd and 4th are my most used gears, and I'll probably be doing Evo III 3rd and 4th gears, they are shorter, stronger and double synchro'd.

American Le Mans at Laguna Seca today and on Speed TV from 2:45pm to 6:45pm PST.

 

[Atuca]

Phillip,
The 2.4L is going to build a shit ton of torque.
You already have an advantage.
You're going to have to start thinking about a transmission upgrade for sure.
And possibly a electric pump with a cooler for it as well, at least I'm thinking about it for my set-up.
What exhaust manifold do you plan to run, T3, T4, FP Race?
Do you have a 1g head for this beast?
What SMIM do you plan to run?
What fuel do you plan to run?
What is your parts list?
And, how serious of a Road Racer do you plan to be.
I'm just a HPDE kind of a guy for now, but eventually will do what you're doing.

2.4 ftw
I'm looking at shep and jack - I want to run every evo gear I can, I just hear they are harder to get now.
I have a fp race mani
I have a 1g head
I have a 1g intake mani
At this time, i plan on 91, maybe mix in some 110 if cali has some, I don't know for sure
I want to do this as much as I can afford, perhaps twice a month during the season.
And no, I don't know what class I am aiming for. I beleive with my setup, I will not be in any of the lower classes though.

 

[KevinBoosted]

2.4
FP HTA3076
E85

 

[xloki77x]

If you look at the dyno graph for the HTA3076 you will see the torque curve peak at about 4.7-4.8k. This is not the powerband the OP is looking for and also not the best for road racing either. It would also require him to get a T3 manifold when he already has an FP Race.

On the subject of E85...
Good in theory because of the fact that it burns at a much lower temp than regular gasoline, but you need a lot more of it to get the power. For a time attack event it is nice because you are only turning two to three hot laps. You can have an 8 gallon cell and use most of it in those two to three laps. For a 20-30 minute NASA session you would have to either have an enormous fuel cell/stock gas tank or stop and refill mid session. On top of that, you are going to have to bring all your own fuel to the track. Other types of fuel can be found on site at any track. I have thought about going this route and is still an option for time attack events, but those are few and far between, especially on the East Coast where I am. Again, good in theory and MUCH cheaper than C16, but I think there are less pro's than con's. Just my .02's

 

[Strm Trpr]

2.4 ftw
I'm looking at shep and jack - I want to run every evo gear I can, I just hear they are harder to get now.
I have a fp race mani
I have a 1g head
I have a 1g intake mani
At this time, i plan on 91, maybe mix in some 110 if cali has some, I don't know for sure
I want to do this as much as I can afford, perhaps twice a month during the season.
And no, I don't know what class I am aiming for. I beleive with my setup, I will not be in any of the lower classes though.

You've got everthing except the SMIM.
You live in Tracy.
I know for a fact on Grant Line and Tracy Blvd there is a 76 that sells 100 octane Street Blaze, but it's actually 96 motor octane and is oxygentated with Ethanol.
Laguna, Infineon and Thunderhill all have 100 octane unleaded at the pump.

I plan on running 91 craptane and 70/30 Meth/Water Injection.
Beau Brown is pushing 30psi with a PTE3076R on 91 and meth injection in a 2.3L stroker.

There is a VP Racing Fuel distributor in Stockton near the airport where I get my 99.95% pure M1 Methanol from.

Stockton - Van De Pol Enterprises
888-587-3835 or 209-944-9115
[email protected]

Here are some Road Racing Fuels:
race fuels, performance chemicals, race track gas station
The drag racing fuels offer more octane but use Lead in the fuel.

E85 is not an option for us.
Go here Growth Energy Market Development and find the tab that says, "I Need E85 in my Town".

The closest E85 pump to me is in Galt and there are a ton in Sacramento.
Closest pump to you is in Concord.

 

[Atuca]

Yea E85 also would require me getting a whole new fuel system. I could run 110 on my setup easily, but again, it all depends on what I can find around here or at the track.

 

[Strm Trpr]

On the subject of E85...
Good in theory because of the fact that it burns at a much lower temp than regular gasoline, but you need a lot more of it to get the power. For a time attack event it is nice because you are only turning two to three hot laps. You can have an 8 gallon cell and use most of it in those two to three laps. For a 20-30 minute NASA session you would have to either have an enormous fuel cell/stock gas tank or stop and refill mid session. On top of that, you are going to have to bring all your own fuel to the track. Other types of fuel can be found on site at any track. I have thought about going this route and is still an option for time attack events, but those are few and far between, especially on the East Coast where I am. Again, good in theory and MUCH cheaper than C16, but I think there are less pro's than con's. Just my .02's

Agreed, 100%.

 

[KevinBoosted]

If you look at the dyno graph for the HTA3076 you will see the torque curve peak at about 4.7-4.8k. This is not the powerband the OP is looking for and also not the best for road racing either. It would also require him to get a T3 manifold when he already has an FP Race.

On the subject of E85...
Good in theory because of the fact that it burns at a much lower temp than regular gasoline, but you need a lot more of it to get the power. For a time attack event it is nice because you are only turning two to three hot laps. You can have an 8 gallon cell and use most of it in those two to three laps. For a 20-30 minute NASA session you would have to either have an enormous fuel cell/stock gas tank or stop and refill mid session. On top of that, you are going to have to bring all your own fuel to the track. Other types of fuel can be found on site at any track. I have thought about going this route and is still an option for time attack events, but those are few and far between, especially on the East Coast where I am. Again, good in theory and MUCH cheaper than C16, but I think there are less pro's than con's. Just my .02's

I wasn't aware you couldn't connect the FP HTA3076 to the FP race manifold but now i know, good because i am pretty close to sending my FP3065 back to FP for a HTA3076.

However i believe your a little off on your E85 knowledge. Unless your running insanely rich or leaking fuel somewhere, even at that point i dont think that you will use up most of an 8 gal fuel cell on 2-3 laps. I know a ton of guys out here in Arizona that run NASA HPDE (i am one ) and will fill up their tank on E85 and after a 20 min session come back with atleast a 1/2 tank if not more. I do understand E85 isnt as readily available to you east coast guys as it is for us west coast guys but if you were to get the chance i would highly recommend the stuff. I am not currently running it but will be shortly and the only thing you really need changed as far as fuel system wise is a bigger than stock fuel pump...(which most of you guys will be doing anyway if you go with anything bigger than a t-25 or small 16g), and injectors, that will probaly be the pricier of the two considering you are going to require a large size injector which again you will more than likely be changing anyway.

To make my 2g E85 ready as a precaution i did ss fuel lines from the fuel tank thru in line fuel filter to fuel rail, rewired Walboro 255 and will be adding a Bosch 044 in line as well and will be changing my injectors from FIC 750s to Blue Max 1450s. But again not required just as a precaution since E85 is still fairly new stuff, so far all the reviews ive read and even seen cars with my own eyes, people are not disappointed and showing great numbers and awesome response. Last month a freind of mine Tony from UMS gave me a ride in his E85 35r powered Evo around Phoenix International Raceway....... Pretty insane. Pretty sure i lost 5 lbs with the workout i had in the passenger seat trying to keep my body from getting thrown in the seat.

E85 Fuel Stations

In all honesty C16...104,110 race gas...waste of money Good for the dragstrip and dynoqueens, thats about it unless you like feeling that hole in your pocket getting bigger and bigger every lap If i weren't going E85 id stay with pump gas and add a dual nozzle meth setup on a 150psi pump running straight methanol. Cant beat either one of these setups and especially for the price. You East coast people gotta love the 93 pump as most of us on the West coast wont see anything over 91 at the pump. Yep i miss Connecticut...sometimes

E85....or 93 pump on 100% meth I believe you won't be disappointed

 

[Strm Trpr]

I wasn't aware you couldn't connect the FP HTA3076 to the FP race manifold but now i know, good because i am pretty close to sending my FP3065 back to FP for a HTA3076.

The FP Manifold will connect to a HTA DSM76, which is a HTA3076 but with the FP 30 Series Turbine Housing, just like your FP3065.

And BTW, an FP3065 = GT3082R, so if you plan to return your FP3065, they will put the HTA82mm Compressor Wheel and Compressor Cover found on the HTA3582 on it but run your 30r Turbine Wheel as is.

 

[xloki77x]

Perhaps I have been misinformed about E85. I really like the stuff and wish I could run it. I will definitely look into more keenly now. Thanks.

Pete

 

[KevinBoosted]

The FP Manifold will connect to a HTA DSM76, which is a HTA3076 but with the FP 30 Series Turbine Housing, just like your FP3065.

And BTW, an FP3065 = GT3082R, so if you plan to return your FP3065, they will put the HTA82mm Compressor Wheel and Compressor Cover found on the HTA3582 on it but run your 30r Turbine Wheel as is.

Ahh the beauty of a fast spooling 35r compressor cramed into a 30r housing
Im gonna give them a call tuesday so ill let you know what they say. When i started my build i didnt want anything bigger than a 16g

 

[Strm Trpr]

Ahh the beauty of a fast spooling 35r compressor cramed into a 30r housing
Im gonna give them a call tuesday so ill let you know what they say. When i started my build i didnt want anything bigger than a 16g

I think you still have it wrong.
Here's what you have in a FP Turbine Housing.
Garrett GT3082R Ball Bearing Turbo - GT3040R (595 HP) Garrett GT3040R Turbo ball bearing GT3076R turbocharger [gar-3040r] - $1,160.90 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart,

The quote below is taken straight from the product description from the above link.

"This turbo incorporates the same GT40 compressor wheel found in the popular GT35/40R, but runs the smaller 60mm w/84 trim turbine wheel from the GT30R. Appropriate for smaller engines where the GT35/40R, (a.k.a. GT3582R) feels too big, but the high amount of compressor flow is needed for the desired HP. Comes with a large T04S style compressor housing with 4.00 inlet and 2.50" outlet. "

The 3582R, has the same 82mm Compressor Wheel from the 40r and the 35r Turbine Wheel.
Garrett GT3582R Ball Bearing Turbo - GT35R (600 HP) [714568] - $1,220.00 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart, Flange, Turbonetics, Exhaust, Intercooler, ACT, Intake

 

[jrohner]

Basically, the timing and low boost are both a lead in to the cooling issues so many of us face. Keeping exhaust temps low and reliability high is what I try and accomplish every time I visit the track. These are two things I have found help and if you start off with that mentality you learn what tuning is needed the more you get a feel for your motor and your car.
Pete

Less timing INCREASES exhaust temperatures considerably. My car had the turbo bright red at 1/2 throttle back when I was running the stock crappy timing map. Heck, any NA car can easily make the exhaust glow red if the timing is extremely low.



I think, you might as well get out there and get a bunch of track time and experience before you start building up. At fast tracks the 16G could possibly feel a bit lame once you're used to it, but at slower speeds they're pretty impressive with supporting mods, good fuel, and a decent amount of boost. The stock engine should be fine too if your tune is a bit on the conservative side.

 

[xloki77x]

Running timing on the conservative side is about reliability, not so much about low EGT's. More timing, more chance of detonation. I should have clarified.

Pete

 

[KevinBoosted]

I think you still have it wrong.
Here's what you have in a FP Turbine Housing.
Garrett GT3082R Ball Bearing Turbo - GT3040R (595 HP) Garrett GT3040R Turbo ball bearing GT3076R turbocharger [gar-3040r] - $1,160.90 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart,

The quote below is taken straight from the product description from the above link.

"This turbo incorporates the same GT40 compressor wheel found in the popular GT35/40R, but runs the smaller 60mm w/84 trim turbine wheel from the GT30R. Appropriate for smaller engines where the GT35/40R, (a.k.a. GT3582R) feels too big, but the high amount of compressor flow is needed for the desired HP. Comes with a large T04S style compressor housing with 4.00 inlet and 2.50" outlet. "

The 3582R, has the same 82mm Compressor Wheel from the 40r and the 35r Turbine Wheel.
Garrett GT3582R Ball Bearing Turbo - GT35R (600 HP) [714568] - $1,220.00 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart, Flange, Turbonetics, Exhaust, Intercooler, ACT, Intake

Correct me if im wrong again but from my understanding this is what i have
Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP30 Style Turbine Housing

All a 3065 is, is a 30r fp housing with a 65/min compressor chra'd

 

[Strm Trpr]

No Sir.
An FP3065 is a 65lb/min Compressor Wheel mated to a GT30R CHRA.
It's the same compressor wheel found in the GT3082R and the GT3582R.
I thought this link would quell any further confusion.
Garrett GT3082R Ball Bearing Turbo - GT3040R (595 HP) Garrett GT3040R Turbo ball bearing GT3076R turbocharger [gar-3040r] - $1,160.90 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart,

Call up FP and ask them your self tomorrow when you ask them about HTAing your 3065.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Just to give you an idea of what a HTA3582R can do on a 2.3L.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/339669-3582-hta-t3-mitsu.html
20psi in 3rd gear by 3800rpm sounds pretty damn good to me.
Imagine what a 2.4L could push thru an HTA3076, or in your case Phillip the DSM76 HTA.

 

[Atuca]

Wonder why FP would recommend the fp3052 over the dsm76 to me than.

Everytime I call them it seems short and sweet, I really wish I could sit down with one of them and look at some hard facts.

Been enjoying the conversation here. It seems though even months after I posted originally, people are still in favor of some variation of an FP turbo.

 

[Evan K.]

If FP is recommending the 3052 I think I would just go with that. Of course I already happen to have one so take it with a grain of salt.

As others have stated I think it's a lot harder to learn to drive with a fast car as it does foster the development of bad habits such as not maintaining your momentum through corners as it's so easy to make that speed back up with all the power you'll have. Not that I would know anything about that personally. Definately had to spend some time unlearning some bad habits. Don't worry about impressing people with your driving skills when you first go out. When I've instructed it's been the guys who are trying to impress me that end up going off track. If you want to impress people the best way to do it is to stay on the track shiny side up. You probaly won't realize how much learning you have to do until you take a few corners at track speed. It can be quite a reality check.

 

[Atuca]

Its great to have you back Evan!

I brought this thread back up because I actually started ordering some of my engine parts I called FP up again and this time the turbo engineer answered the phone and said that who ever told me to get DSM76 over 3052 for road race was full of crap.

Last time I thought the dsm76 was an HTA version of a 3052 in a way, and totally counted it out. Which than meant the 3150 was the way to go. But than they said that Luda's turbo they don't really sell much. He agreed spool was great there as well, but said with my 2.4 there wasn't a reason to not go for the 3052 as it would spool the same.

I never thought I put this much thought into picking a turbo....

and just for you Evan, I had my friend bring me an old ebay 16g I think (not sure of origins, but not MHI for sure) that I could use on the new engine for a while. I figure if nothing else I would use it just for break in purposes, I don't want that ebay turbo taking my engine with it...

 

[Strm Trpr]

If FP is recommending the 3052 I think I would just go with that. Of course I already happen to have one so take it with a grain of salt.

As others have stated I think it's a lot harder to learn to drive with a fast car as it does foster the development of bad habits such as not maintaining your momentum through corners as it's so easy to make that speed back up with all the power you'll have. Not that I would know anything about that personally. Definately had to spend some time unlearning some bad habits. Don't worry about impressing people with your driving skills when you first go out. When I've instructed it's been the guys who are trying to impress me that end up going off track. If you want to impress people the best way to do it is to stay on the track shiny side up. You probaly won't realize how much learning you have to do until you take a few corners at track speed. It can be quite a reality check.

This is all 100% true.
Next time I go to the track, I'm going to turn the boost down and cut consistant lines and try to carry more speed thru turns.
Next track day is at Thunerhill on November 6th with NCRC.
$99 for members, or $109 for non members for five 20-25 minute sessions.

 

[338vr4]

This is all 100% true.
Next time I go to the track, I'm going to turn the boost down and cut consistant lines and try to carry more speed thru turns.
Next track day is at Thunerhill on November 6th with NCRC.
$99 for members, or $109 for non members for five 20-25 minute sessions.

DAng if you go you might see me there running around in the beast!.
I just have to get the h1c on there!

 

[Strm Trpr]

DAng if you go you might see me there running around in the beast!.
I just have to get the h1c on there!

I'll be there, I just signed up for the event.
Better hurry, it's almost full.
Northern California Racing Club - Schedule of Events

 

[FCR]

I recomended the GT3082R. My vr4 (2.3)runs greats and the spool is awsome.