Best road racing turbo on 2.4

[Atuca]

Well I have been looking around, talked to people I know, and am going with the FP3150 suggestion. If in the future I run a track that needs more power, I think I am going to get the DSM76 and just keep both turbos. I figure since they run the same housing, it won't be too hard for me to drain my oil and coolant and swap turbos during the week before I go to another venue where I would need one turbo or the other.

At least for my first couple seasons I want to get a good understanding of my car and the sport. I understand I am building a "beast 2.4" and that for a drag car I could run a much larger turbo and get some good times, but that really isn't for me. Chris, I am giving your advice some extra weight because I know you are on the track and could just as easily tell me to go bigger if you truely thought it would benefit me. If the FP3150 is big enough for you, and you are sure. I can stick to that.

Just today I was at pick and pull and got almost all of the non wear 6 bolt parts I am going to need. I will be dropping the engine off at the machine shop ect ect --> fast foward --> I will get the turbo when I get the block back and will assemble it all together.

I appreciate the input especially from those of you who road race already, and look foward to seeing you on the track Evan.

 

[Evan K.]

Do me a favor and get that main girdle. It's really best to give it to the machine shop with the engine so they can line bore the block with the girdle installed. You'll be happy you did it later.

Look forward to seeing you at the track too. Be nice to not be the only DSM beating up on the Evo's

 

[Ludachris]

Do me a favor and get that main girdle. It's really best to give it to the machine shop with the engine so they can line bore the block with the girdle installed. You'll be happy you did it later.

Look forward to seeing you at the track too. Be nice to not be the only DSM beating up on the Evo's

Hope to see you both at the NorCal tracks in the future.

 

[Atuca]

hey chris. talked to evan a good hour and a half yesterday . he mentioned you coming out this way sometime. it be awsome to race with you all

he said within the next couple years if i remember correctly. when do you think you'll make it out here? i am trying to set up a timeline for my build as Evan said he wouldn't make it to the tracks til later this summer. would be nice to meet up with people like yourself who can give me more road race advice from a first hand experience in person.

 

[Ludachris]

hey chris. talked to evan a good hour and a half yesterday . he mentioned you coming out this way sometime. it be awsome to race with you all

he said within the next couple years if i remember correctly. when do you think you'll make it out here? i am trying to set up a timeline for my build as Evan said he wouldn't make it to the tracks til later this summer. would be nice to meet up with people like yourself who can give me more road race advice from a first hand experience in person.

Yeah, most likely not for another 1 to 2 years at least. If I land a contract with an old employer there's a chance it could happen as soon as next summer. But a lot of things would have to fall in place for that to happen. It's not likely at this point. We'll see.

 

[Atuca]

So the part ordering for the g4cs is continuing, i messeged a bunch of vendors trying for great deals.

Part of the list of vendors I have contacted included FP for a turbo.

I spoke with the turbo engineer there. He said he hurt is foot and was chilling on the phone the particular day I called. I thought this was a great opprotunity to disuss turbo choices again.

He stated that DSM76 would NOT spool faster than a fp3052, although forum posters here said the HTA wheel in the DSM76 would net lower spool times. Perhaps he took into consideration my low 20 boost settings in this consideration, but he suggested for raod raing this is not a turbo to even consider.

Now we did get on the subject of the 3150. He said that the turbo was very rarely used. He stated even that the fp3052 would spool in about the same rpm as the 3150. So basicly he has me back on the fp3052.

Wondering if in a couple months any other ideas came up. I am still probably a good month or so from getting the turbo, but now as I am completing a more comprehensive list of parts, thought I hit this thread again.

Let me know, especially those of you with g4cs/4g64 blocks. Whats been good to you on the track.

 

[eclipsh]

I've been reading through here and have a question. What about using a sequential turbo setup like 99GST is running or a dual charger (super charger+turbo) setup like Ray Peters has? Both do a great job fighting lag, have a lot of hp potential and (by but dyno only on the sequential) a great torque band. Are these systems too complex for a road-race car? Would they produce too much heat? Just thought I'd ask.

 

[snowborder714]

My guess would be too much heat. I read a lot about people fighting overheating issues on here with normal setups. I'm not sure if Paul has done anything to look into his underhood temps with the compound setup, but my guess is pushing a setup like that for 15-20 minutes wouldn't be fun with the heat. You'd have to have a top notch cooling system setup to control that.

 

[Grn95GST]

Here is another turbo to consider..

Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP 68HTA Turbocharger for DSM

Should give you instant power with decent top end.

 

[xloki77x]

To the OP, I would suggest getting out there with your current setup to get a feel for your particular car, not your particular turbo setup. It is MUCH easier to learn how to drive in a slower car than a highly upgraded one. You will need to be a better, smoother driver to increase times. Then you will have the knowledge of what it takes to handle your car.

Pete

 

[Atuca]

To the OP, I would suggest getting out there with your current setup to get a feel for your particular car, not your particular turbo setup. It is MUCH easier to learn how to drive in a slower car than a highly upgraded one. You will need to be a better, smoother driver to increase times. Then you will have the knowledge of what it takes to handle your car.

Pete

I would except my car is currently stripped to the frame. It probably was a good idea but I have so much fun building and modding my eclipse I couldn't wait. I just want to do it right though, as even if I went out there with the stock setup, i wouldn't know what turbo to get.

 

[xloki77x]

I hear ya. This thread is from April so I kinda knew you'd be off and running by now. Have you decided on a turbo yet?

Pete

 

[Atuca]

So the part ordering for the g4cs is continuing, i messeged a bunch of vendors trying for great deals.

Part of the list of vendors I have contacted included FP for a turbo.

I spoke with the turbo engineer there. He said he hurt is foot and was chilling on the phone the particular day I called. I thought this was a great opprotunity to disuss turbo choices again.

He stated that DSM76 would NOT spool faster than a fp3052, although forum posters here said the HTA wheel in the DSM76 would net lower spool times. Perhaps he took into consideration my low 20 boost settings in this consideration, but he suggested for raod raing this is not a turbo to even consider.

Now we did get on the subject of the 3150. He said that the turbo was very rarely used. He stated even that the fp3052 would spool in about the same rpm as the 3150. So basicly he has me back on the fp3052.

Wondering if in a couple months any other ideas came up. I am still probably a good month or so from getting the turbo, but now as I am completing a more comprehensive list of parts, thought I hit this thread again.

Let me know, especially those of you with g4cs/4g64 blocks. Whats been good to you on the track.

No, I am still looking for more advice. Thats from yesterday

 

[Strm Trpr]

.82 A/R T3 HTA3076R from FP.... Enough Said!

 

[Atuca]

Care to elaborate? you have any experience with this turbo on a road course? or know someone that does? Or do you know how this turbo reacts on a 2.4? I am looking for specifics, I can find the general stuff anywhere.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Only in my dreams.
I do road race, but not professionally... yet.

Do you have access to the link forums?
You must have access, you have link, check out the forums and you'll see for yourself.
Do a search for member "JackM", that's Jack from Jack's transmission.
Check out some threads he's started.
Here's one.... ECMTuning User Support Forums
There are a couple of guys on there with 2.4L's and FP3052's, and 2.0L and FP 3052's.
One of them has a 2.3L with the HTA76 took it out for the first rip, hit 35psi by 3500rpm and sheared every tooth off of 3rd gear.
Here's this one... ECMTuning User Support Forums

From what I've read and seen thru logs on there, guys are hitting hi 20's boost by 3600-3800rpm on the FP3052.

The HTA76 will out flow the 3052 and can sustain boost to redline better without losing efficiency and can handle a 4.5 pressure ratio.

IIRC, there are 2.4L's on the Link forums spooling up T3 HTA3582's easily before 4800rpm...

 

[Atuca]

Only in my dreams.

From what I've read and seen thru logs on there, guys are hitting hi 20's boost by 3600-3800rpm on the FP3052.

That is what I am after ^^

Only in my dreams.

IIRC, there are 2.4L's on the Link forums spooling up T3 HTA3582's easily before 4800rpm...

and this is too late ^^



If you road race, even non professionally like I will be for a few months, the turns on the track is where having a fast spooling turbo will be needed. I don't think I will ever top out on any of these tracks I am looking at, Luda even stated where he is at he can hardly justify anything bigger than what he is running, 3150.

I don't need to have huge HP numbers to be competitive on the track. I could just as easily install a 42r as I could a 30r, it is just a matter of what will perform the best on these tracks.

For clarifications of what tracks I will be running, here are their layouts:

Infineon

Leguna Seca

Thunderhill

 

[asian312]

Curious if your are aiming to run in a particular class or just for getting out there to learn. If you are the later, I recommend something like a 14b or 16g. Crazy am I? Like a fox ;p

One of the hardest things for students to grasp is conservation of momentum. This is why low, under powered cars such as Miaa's and Civics are great track performers. When you can't make up speed on the straights, one tends to focus on never loosing it. Most students are already under information overload their first times out and speed can be a huge obstacle to overcome as learning brake points and corner speed becomes imparative.

Second note , reliability. No matter which route you go, this is the #1 rule for track preparedness. Just keep in mind that blasting around the track 20-30min at a time places the motor and drivetrain in an entirely different environment. Can't learn or have fun if you aren't turning laps.

On a more advanced note. If your car is AWD, a fairly responsive turbo will have a larger impact than higher HP. There are many techniques that are unique to the AWD drivetrain and having a more NA throttle response is useful.

 

[Atuca]

I already sold my MHI 16g but I have a ebay 16g laying around. I could throw that for a spin while I first am breaking in my engine, and could go to a few track days with it, but yes I am a first timer.

My mindset is I don't want to go out on the track as a poser. I wanted to have a car built for what I wanted to do and have fun. If the other 2k worth of funds is not there when I finish with the first 3k building my engine, I more than likely will run the 16g a while while I save up for the proper turbo, but the thread is here to help figure out what turbo that will be.

As stated above, I don't think it will be possible for me to know what turbo will do well on the track, all I know and can research is I want low spool and high power. Isn't that everyone's goal though?

 

[xloki77x]

I was exactly where you are in terms of looking for the perfect turbo. I ended up getting an AWESOME deal on a 3052 and I am beyond happy it fell into my lap. I was (undergoing full road race build at the moment) seeing full boost, 24 psi, at a little over 3800 rpms. I came from a big16g to the 3052 and honestly, I could barely notice the difference in spool time. The power this turbo puts out is dangerous to transmissions because the spool time and shear onset of torque is so abrupt at low engine speeds. Seriously, any one of these turbos is great choice. It's not like you'll be throwing your money in the trash if you choose the wrong one. Someone on here will always be looking for one if you want to try another turbo. My vote is for the 3052, but I am biased.

You should definitely check out Time Attack Forums as well. You will definitely find some more info there. Everyone is there for road racing and auto-x. They might not have DSM's, but they will have some great advice on power delivery, turbo setups, spool time, etc. especially for these tracks (NorCal is the hot spot for road racing these days).

Pete

 

[xloki77x]

You really shouldn't worry about looking like a poser. This is what you want to do and you are doing it just like everyone else at the track. They understand where you are coming from; nobody starts out with 600hp fully prepped race cars. As long as you know the rules of the track, your flags, and have ALL your safety equipment in order, you will have a great time no matter if you are driving your car with an ebay 16g, a 3052, or a 35r that hits 30 psi @ 2500 rpms (a magical turbo that will someday be produced). Just go have a good time and focus on driving, not on what other people think of you or your car. Trust me, road racers are good people.

Pete

 

[xloki77x]

A 2.4l is another great advantage you have and should produce, with any one of these turbos, an extremely good road racing power curve. A lot also has to do with the way you tune as well. You want to run as little timing as possible and as low a boost setting as feasible. You should really enjoy the 2.4, I'm kind of wishing I went that route...maybe in a year or two.

 

[Strm Trpr]

That is what I am after ^^



and this is too late ^^



If you road race, even non professionally like I will be for a few months, the turns on the track is where having a fast spooling turbo will be needed. I don't think I will ever top out on any of these tracks I am looking at, Luda even stated where he is at he can hardly justify anything bigger than what he is running, 3150.

I don't need to have huge HP numbers to be competitive on the track. I could just as easily install a 42r as I could a 30r, it is just a matter of what will perform the best on these tracks.

For clarifications of what tracks I will be running, here are their layouts:

Infineon

Leguna Seca

Thunderhill

I will see you on everyone of these if you run NASA and NCRC...

 

[Strm Trpr]

You really shouldn't worry about looking like a poser. This is what you want to do and you are doing it just like everyone else at the track. They understand where you are coming from; nobody starts out with 600hp fully prepped race cars. As long as you know the rules of the track, your flags, and have ALL your safety equipment in order, you will have a great time no matter if you are driving your car with an ebay 16g, a 3052, or a 35r that hits 30 psi @ 2500 rpms (a magical turbo that will someday be produced). Just go have a good time and focus on driving, not on what other people think of you or your car. Trust me, road racers are good people.

Pete

Every single word of this post if the truth.

 

[Strm Trpr]

A 2.4l is another great advantage you have and should produce, with any one of these turbos, an extremely good road racing power curve. A lot also has to do with the way you tune as well. You want to run as little timing as possible and as low a boost setting as feasible. You should really enjoy the 2.4, I'm kind of wishing I went that route...maybe in a year or two.

Why do you say, "as little timing as possible and as low a boost setting as feasible"?

I think the biggest factor in Road Racing is making sure your oil cooling and water cooling are at peak efficiency.
Keeping both temps at or below 200*F is a must!

Phillip,
The 2.4L is going to build a shit ton of torque.
You already have an advantage.
You're going to have to start thinking about a transmission upgrade for sure.
And possibly a electric pump with a cooler for it as well, at least I'm thinking about it for my set-up.
What exhaust manifold do you plan to run, T3, T4, FP Race?
Do you have a 1g head for this beast?
What SMIM do you plan to run?
What fuel do you plan to run?
What is your parts list?
And, how serious of a Road Racer do you plan to be.
I'm just a HPDE kind of a guy for now, but eventually will do what you're doing.

I'd say the following, starting from the TB since you already have a shiny new ETS FMIC:
1g TB
1g Intake Manifold, later upgrade to a Beyond Redline Performance SMIM.
1g Head, no porting, just a clean up, +1mm valves and upgraded springs and retainers.
272's, which you already have, and perhaps a set of adjustable cam gears if you don't have them already.
FP Race Manifold
HTA DSM76 inhaling thru a FP 4" Intake Pipe
FP 2.5" Dumped O2 Housing to your Megan DP and out the back.

Then start thinking transmissions...