DVDT Fab FLP Intake Manifold

[Boosted98gsx]

Then buy one and send it there

I just got this beast ON my car, no way in hell am I going to let someone else have their hands on it before I get the chance to play with it.

 

[twicks69]

This is a good way to get the testing done. please spread the word. let's see if we can get all these people involved and stop bench racing.

Op: This looks very cool can't wait to see well this preforms.

DSM Intake Manifold Face Off - Signatures

You might want to update the list of manufacturers described in your petition, since they are all from 6+ years ago. And in 6 years, they have not made an article for DSM's on these manifolds.

You want to know why they haven't produced an article? It is called the entry of the US-spec Mitsubishi Evolution 8 into the market, putting the nails in the coffin for DSM'ers.

This is the reason why the intake manifold testing has been done on Evo's instead of DSM's by a few magazines, along with a few shops. The May 2008 DragSport Magazine Issue #65 was an in-depth dyno-backed article on a dozen or so SMIM's for the 4G63 Evo setup.

This just won't happen unless a shop does it, and that cuts into costs and chargability.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Now that he's finally offering them up for sale, I've got to say it's about damn time someone figured out to use a round plenum with tapered runners and not the other way around. It's not THAT hard to figure out that using a cylindrical plenum has nearly the same footprint yet a lot more volume. The only shame is that Albert hasn't built a jig and started mass producing these to cut the cost down to market levels (I'm not sure why a piece of aluminum pipe with a channel cut out, two stamped caps, some bent up runners and 2 cnc'd plates and a tb flange costs so much). I guess they'll be an elitist fad until he gets bored and before long, they'll all be soda cans.

 

[Slippi84]

One thing I noticed from the the tech article posted today, Albert includes a distribution block and a nice brake master resvior bracket w/ t-bolt clamp. Only thing that looks shaky is that you have to cut your hood for it(resvior) to fit in the new location.

Also flows 51lbs/min on 19psi so far with a gt35rhta. Info on previous setup flow would be useful.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

One thing I noticed from the the tech article posted today, Albert includes a distribution block and a nice brake master resvior bracket w/ t-bolt clamp. Only thing that looks shaky is that you have to cut your hood for it(resvior) to fit in the new location.

Also flows 51lbs/min on 19psi so far with a gt35rhta. Info on previous setup flow would be useful.

Cutting your hood takes minimal effort, and because of the size of the plenum, is honestly nothing, considering you can retain use of everything, A/C, power steering, etc.

I think I was hitting equivalent flow on a gen 2 Magnus manifold at 23 psi before adding this manifold to my car.

 

[lowexpectations]

Please don't flame for asking this but why is this thread and your other one even up? There has been no proof either good or bad on this manifold other than alot of trash talking. I know you got a new part and want to talk about it but in my opinion you should of shown some reserve and waited untill you had something to back up the price tag of this unit. I do have one tech question for you. If the creator does not have any way to flow test these then how did he come up with the design? I do not know about some of the things you have mentioned earlier in this thread but I do know that just because something should work on paper does not mean it will work in reality.

I hope you get the results you are looking for and if anything people should be happy that the dsm world is still having companies that are willing to spend their time into making parts for these cars. There is way more money to be made with the evo community.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Because the conceptual design of the manifold is superior to any other manifold on the market when it comes to maintaining form true to fluid and pulse flow dynamics. This manifold left my university's Dr in Automotive engineering, and FSAE overseer, stunned and speechless when he looked at it. His only remarks were, "Yup, that's pretty much how you are supposed to make 'em."

There has definitely been an increase in my car's volumetric efficiency and little to no loss in low end torque, which everyone should be trying to attain in their engines.

Albert has been attempting to get some fabbed up to get flow benched, but because he has other priorities (like making money through the contracts he has with other businesses for machine work) he hasn't had the time.

 

[TSimage]

The new DVDT looks like they borrowed a page from the FFTec guys...

 

[UofACATS]

In for results on your car, Andrew.

Please don't flame for asking this but why is this thread and your other one even up? There has been no proof either good or bad on this manifold other than alot of trash talking. I know you got a new part and want to talk about it but in my opinion you should of shown some reserve and waited untill you had something to back up the price tag of this unit.

The point of a thread is the discussion that results. Some people get a bit excited, yes, but how else will things get hashed out? I want to know all about this manifold personally, including the results, but the only way the process begins is with this thread, right?

Personally, I love when members have very strong opinions, and disagree strongly as a result. One side has to be right, and it gets settled eventually. Then that information is archived and we all benefit. Then one side has a large serving of crow and we more forward.

 

[bastard dsm]

no test's will ever be done....period.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Bump for actual testing. Did it ever get done? Are these things still 1200 for a few pieces that can be had already formed off ebay for $160?

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Bump for actual testing. Did it ever get done? Are these things still 1200 for a few pieces that can be had already formed off ebay for $160?

So, you can get a CNC'd tapered runner entrance baseplate for the plenum with a 2.5" CNC'd radius on ebay??!!

Point me to where!!!

The answer to your question is, no, not to my knowledge. Albert was supposed to be getting one on a dyno some time soon. I don't know if it happened.

 

[95grntsi]

I dont usually post much on here but since I also happen to support Albert's design I'll share this bit of information. I hope I'm not breaking any rules but I copied this from another forum, the post was made by Yusuf Begic regarding Mike Reichen's evo 2...
"Mike Reichen had his EVO 2 at the dyno on Monday night testing DV/DT Fab's new FLP Race intake manifold 4G63 Mitsubishi FLP Race Intake manifold | DVDTFAB. The results were stout with 1093 awhp and 660 ft lbs of torque at only 40 psi! Previous dyno pulls with the Forester intake manifold neted a maximum of 1060, but at 4 psi more boost. At 40 psi the forester was just under 1,000 awhp. Also at only 24 psi base boost the forester put out 757 awhp and the DV/DT put out 769.98 awhp. All pulls were made on VP Import. I'll let Mike fill in all of the other details, but here's the dyno sheet which speaks for itself." You'll have to look for the dyno sheet as I'm not going to post it on here. Its on Shearer's blog.

I would say a 33whp gain on less boost is pretty darn impressive. Plus 40psi is no where near pushing the limit on that turbocharger. Just thought I would share some evidence or "proof" on the superior design of this manifold.

 

[Slippi84]

I dont usually post much on here but since I also happen to support Albert's design I'll share this bit of information. I hope I'm not breaking any rules but I copied this from another forum, the post was made by Yusuf Begic regarding Mike Reichen's evo 2...
"Mike Reichen had his EVO 2 at the dyno on Monday night testing DV/DT Fab's new FLP Race intake manifold 4G63 Mitsubishi FLP Race Intake manifold | DVDTFAB. The results were stout with 1093 awhp and 660 ft lbs of torque at only 40 psi! Previous dyno pulls with the Forester intake manifold neted a maximum of 1060, but at 4 psi more boost. At 40 psi the forester was just under 1,000 awhp. Also at only 24 psi base boost the forester put out 757 awhp and the DV/DT put out 769.98 awhp. All pulls were made on VP Import. I'll let Mike fill in all of the other details, but here's the dyno sheet which speaks for itself." You'll have to look for the dyno sheet as I'm not going to post it on here. Its on Shearer's blog.

I would say a 33whp gain on less boost is pretty darn impressive. Plus 40psi is no where near pushing the limit on that turbocharger. Just thought I would share some evidence or "proof" on the superior design of this manifold.

That is very impreesive but comparing a 1000whp evo to what most of us will be dealing with (which I'm sure you know the evo is different than 1/2g's) is pretty much apples and oranges. It does show the superior design which if anyone denys you just don't understand the goal or uses of this manifold so oh well. My problem is one the forrester is not what I would consider a big dog manifold. It's too big bulky and outdated and two I would like to see back to back pulls with only cool down time inbetween for a accurate test. I have seen cars make 15 more hp on a different day with NOTHING changed.

 

[95grntsi]

evo 2 as in the same powerplant in your car slippi, its pretty much apples and apples. Here's a link to a picture http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/FlyinEvo2/DSC00330-1.jpg Sure it is beyond what most any of us will ever achieve but numbers dont lie. 93whp gain @ 40 psi. Time will tell though, if this thing ever does get tested on a flowbench.

Like I said I dont post much but you are persistent my man.

 

[Slippi84]

evo 2 as in the same powerplant in your car slippi, its pretty much apples and apples. Here's a link to a picture http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/FlyinEvo2/DSC00330-1.jpg Sure it is beyond what most any of us will ever achieve but numbers dont lie. 93whp gain @ 40 psi. Time will tell though, if this thing ever does get tested on a flowbench.

Like I said I dont post much but you are persistent my man.

My bad I didn't see the 2 but again a 1000whp car can gain 20whp just by going to the dyno on a different day.

+1 for back to back comparrison

 

[dsm-onster]

Forrester vs. This manifold? The JMF drag manifold pulled similar percentage increases over the JMF race manifold. It costs less too. I agree that it would be better to see something like a jmf race manifold vs. the DVDT manifold. Or the JMF drag manifold or beyond redline manifold vs. this DVDT manifold. That would be a real comparison, since it costs so much more than even the later 2 manifolds. . .

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

So, you can get a CNC'd tapered runner entrance baseplate for the plenum with a 2.5" CNC'd radius on ebay??!!

Point me to where!!!

The answer to your question is, no, not to my knowledge. Albert was supposed to be getting one on a dyno some time soon. I don't know if it happened.

Cnc'd intake flange from one of the vendors. 2" Aluminum tubing squared at the end to match flange plate. 4" Aluminum tube 1.3' long. One 4" aluminum dome cap. One aluminum tb flange. There is no reason for it to be $1200 other than bragging rights for people who have too much money.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Cnc'd intake flange from one of the vendors. 2" Aluminum tubing squared at the end to match flange plate. 4" Aluminum tube 1.3' long. One 4" aluminum dome cap. One aluminum tb flange. There is no reason for it to be $1200 other than bragging rights for people who have too much money.

Tapered runners boss. Using circular tubing and clamping it down in the last inch of the runner creates huge flow restrictions from the turbulence you impart on the airflow.

Having a tapered runner allows you to increase velocity as it reaches the head.

the problem with most vendors out there, is that they don't implement fluid dynamics in their designs. Adding vertically protruding velocity stacks into the plenum is a huge flow killer, as well as drastically changing the cross sectional geometry at the last second in the runner. Using square tapering plenums and not allotting extra volume over and around each runner to compensate for pulse flow dynamics and its disruption on the airflow crossing over each runner.... Corner welds on a plenum that will see huge pressure fluctuations over and over and over and expecting them to last and not shear...


The reason why it's $1200, it because it has what every other manifold MFGer has overlooked in terms of engineering. The other MFGer's cared more about mass production, not engineering a top quality product at the expense of making something quickly.

 

[tkelly27]

Having a tapered runner allows you to increase velocity as it reaches the head.

the problem with most vendors out there, is that they don't implement fluid dynamics in their designs. Adding vertically protruding velocity stacks into the plenum is a huge flow killer, as well as drastically changing the cross sectional geometry at the last second in the runner. Using square tapering plenums and not allotting extra volume over and around each runner to compensate for pulse flow dynamics and its disruption on the airflow crossing over each runner.... Corner welds on a plenum that will see huge pressure fluctuations over and over and over and expecting them to last and not shear...

A velocity stack should be raised from the floor of the manifold, otherwise it's not functioning. You can see in the DV/DT that it only has 180 degrees to draw from between two cylinders and between the walls about 150 degrees. Not saying this is good or bad, it's just not a functioning bell mouth shape. Typically you see gains when going from a radiused floor to a true bell mouth. Maybe that is counteracted by the "huge" flow losses from transitioning from a round to oval shape.

I've seen no flow bench or CFD data to back up it's performance. You can only put up theories about how it will operate in a pulsed flow situation. The dyno is not comparing it to any of it's modern competitors. It may have all these benefits, but it's bench racing until it makes power. Even a CFD would be cool, but getting good CFD data can be hard.

Hoop and end cap stress in a pressure vessel are very very low in comparison to the thickness of the material. For example a pop can will handle 25-30psi. The reason the welds were breaking, from what I could tell, is that they are just plain bad welds. I've seen one of the ones that are notorious for breaking in person and they barely bothered cleaning off the smoke from the tungsten inclusion with a wobbly weld line. I've not heard of any but that particular maker splitting, but I'm open to seeing links of all of them breaking and where and how.

 

[Slippi84]

Tapered runners boss. Using circular tubing and clamping it down in the last inch of the runner creates huge flow restrictions from the turbulence you impart on the airflow.

Having a tapered runner allows you to increase velocity as it reaches the head.

the problem with most vendors out there, is that they don't implement fluid dynamics in their designs. Adding vertically protruding velocity stacks into the plenum is a huge flow killer, as well as drastically changing the cross sectional geometry at the last second in the runner. Using square tapering plenums and not allotting extra volume over and around each runner to compensate for pulse flow dynamics and its disruption on the airflow crossing over each runner.... Corner welds on a plenum that will see huge pressure fluctuations over and over and over and expecting them to last and not shear...


The reason why it's $1200, it because it has what every other manifold MFGer has overlooked in terms of engineering. The other MFGer's cared more about mass production, not engineering a top quality product at the expense of making something quickly.

Come on now your just being a cheerleader for DV/DT that's crazy talk. Hell magnus and ams both use they're manifolds on their own track cars. They care about what performs the best when it comes to their cars and they use the same thing they sell to the public. This manifold is good which is what I think we all can agree on but it's NOT worth 1200 bucs period and the numbers even on a 1000whp evo prove it. Like Matt said similar gains have been seen by switching to other manifolds already out much cheaper.

 

[dsm-onster]

the problem with most vendors out there, is that they don't implement fluid dynamics in their designs. Adding vertically protruding velocity stacks into the plenum is a huge flow killer, as well as drastically changing the cross sectional geometry at the last second in the runner. Using square tapering plenums and not allotting extra volume over and around each runner to compensate for pulse flow dynamics and its disruption on the airflow crossing over each runner.... Corner welds on a plenum that will see huge pressure fluctuations over and over and over and expecting them to last and not shear...

Andy, I think we get what you're saying. And we get that DV/DT is into the science of it; look at their name, the derivative of velocity = acceleration. But what are the techniques for testing? Is it just flow bench testing? Air does different things at different pressures. Things you already know, I'm sure. What is the proof that this manifold is better than the jmf drag manifold (E.G.)? I see the same techniques employed in that piece. If it were in the same price range, then the relevence of all these questions us consumers have would be moot.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Pie cut some 3" and taper it to 2", big deal there, an extra 20 minutes of work.

There has been no back to back testing, no numbers, no flow charts, nothing, nadda, zip. Maybe if it showed a 50hp increase over the next manifold it would be worth 1200 but it isn't worth more than $50 in aluminum scrap without data.

 

[woooop]

And there wont be any testing, It will blow up before he can turn up the boost just like mine did.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

And there wont be any testing, It will blow up before he can turn up the boost just like mine did.

Funny how mine has lasted 9 months of daily driving at 20psi and nothing has happened, isn't it? Doesn't say much about your care of the manifold. I blame the user, not the mfger.