What brand of meth injection?

[turboglenn]

So, after seeing so many people with good results and braggin on boost pressures with pump gas on methonal injection i've decided o buy a setup for my car. I use to have a hookup for 118 octane at 3 bucks a galloin, but my friend retired last year and now i'm back to paying 4.50+ depending on if I buy a drum or not. And i'm looking fo the most cost effective way to run 25 - 28 PSI whenever i need to. Normally in the summer months i roll the streets on slicks and burnign 118, but it's become an option that's not so affordable anymore.

What brand of methonal injection seems to be the most reliable and the most friendly when it comes to tuning the syste,? To be honest i've run alky squirters before but only as a knock preventaitve and just ran it over top of the "normal tune"

Are you guys that are running meth leaning the cars out any with it, or just tuning to standard A/R's while it's pumping into the mani?

I'm going to buy a system this week, so any input would be nice.

 

[dsm-onster]

The nozzle flow is what' important here. To use enough meth injection to constitute as a "fuel", then you'll need MUCH more than if you're after the excellent aftercooling effects. Most kit pumps flow enough for anyone's goal.

Enginerunup.com, aquastealth.com: I've had good results w/ my car with one and with a friend's with another. Personally, I like dsm-onster brand . Much cheaper and easy to build.

 

[turboglenn]

I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding your reply. I'm not trying to use it as a fuel alone. I want it to come on at about 18 PSI and run untill i drop back below that. I don't need any sophisticated system as i can control it all through my stand alone. So bascly i just need a good pump, resevior, and nozzle setup. What would be considered "enough" and what would be "too much" in the means of amount of meth injected?

I'm basically trying to figure out what is a good reliable kit ( as far as teh pump and nozzle ), and i'm wanting some info on a "rule of thumb" for how much to add. That's why i was asking how most of you who use it tune with it.. Wether you just tune to normal A/F's on the gas and then inject it on top of your main fuel, or if you tune to your target A/F with it pumping.

I emailed the devilsown people, but never heard back. I'm running 720cc injectors and like I stated, I only want it as a supplement to allow me to run 25 PSi or so on the streets/track to avoid buying 118 by teh barrel. Then having to fill up at home only and having a barrel and pump setup in my garage, I'd love to be able to drive to KC ( out nearest 1/4 mile now) swap on the slicks and just "go", I'm hoping it will allow me to run my :race map" at all times with added timing and not verfueling the A/F's to stave off detonation.

Whatever kit i end up running i will most likely promote to my customers who are after some of the same goals as me for running higher boost levels on plain 91 octane pump gas.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding your reply. I'm not trying to use it as a fuel alone. I want it to come on at about 18 PSI and run untill i drop back below that. I don't need any sophisticated system as i can control it all through my stand alone. So bascly i just need a good pump, resevior, and nozzle setup. What would be considered "enough" and what would be "too much" in the means of amount of meth injected?

I'm basically trying to figure out what is a good reliable kit ( as far as the pump and nozzle ), and i'm wanting some info on a "rule of thumb" for how much to add. That's why i was asking how most of you who use it tune with it.. Wether you just tune to normal A/F's on the gas and then inject it on top of your main fuel, or if you tune to your target A/F with it pumping.

I emailed the devilsown people, but never heard back. I'm running 720cc injectors and like I stated, I only want it as a supplement to allow me to run 25 PSi or so on the streets/track to avoid buying 118 by teh barrel. Then having to fill up at home only and having a barrel and pump setup in my garage, I'd love to be able to drive to KC ( out nearest 1/4 mile now) swap on the slicks and just "go", I'm hoping it will allow me to run my :race map" at all times with added timing and not verfueling the A/F's to stave off detonation.

Whatever kit i end up running i will most likely promote to my customers who are after some of the same goals as me for running higher boost levels on plain 91 octane pump gas.

15% to 20% water injected per TOTAL fuel consumption ([injector cc X 4] X %IDC) will raise the 'effective octane' to over 110 octane. You'll need three times that for pure meth injection. But you'll get supreme aftercooling of the aircharge. Below ambient is likely. Water/meth mix (wiper fluid at 50/50 winter mix) should be around 1.5 times the 15% water to fuel ratio. You'll get very good aftercooling effects (below ambient is still possible) and have the in-chamber octane increases.

Pure meth is finicky. If you run just a little leaner than the threshold, which my be closer to lambda or stoich than gasoline alone, you runa risk of a more violent string of knock than gasoline alone at the same tune. Pure meth is not as cheap as wiper fluid or water. Pure meth has TREMENDOUS benefits. But, are you prepared for its 'distinctive nuances'?

A 100psi shurflow pump, fuel injection hose, ebay irrigation solenoid, an a $30 napa hobbs switch is enough.

 

[2gGSX]

15% to 20% water injected per TOTAL fuel consumption ([injector cc X 4] X %IDC) will raise the 'effective octane' to over 110 octane. You'll need three times that for pure meth injection. But you'll get supreme aftercooling of the aircharge. Below ambient is likely. Water/meth mix (wiper fluid at 50/50 winter mix) should be around 1.5 times the 15% water to fuel ratio. You'll get very good aftercooling effects (below ambient is still possible) and have the in-chamber octane increases.

Pure meth is finicky. If you run just a little leaner than the threshold, which my be closer to lambda or stoich than gasoline alone, you runa risk of a more violent string of knock than gasoline alone at the same tune. Pure meth is not as cheap as wiper fluid or water. Pure meth has TREMENDOUS benefits. But, are you prepared for its 'distinctive nuances'?

A 100psi shurflow pump, fuel injection hose, ebay irrigation solenoid, an a $30 napa hobbs switch is enough.

Don't these two statements contradict each other though? If I get a 20 psi hobbs switch, then there's a difference of 30% IDC (50-->80) between when I first hit 20 psi and redline.

It's this reason that I've been looking for a good progressive controller. The new Devil's Own kit (which may or may not have entered the testing stage by now) is the only one that I know of which is based on the MAS signal, AND allows you to scale the range of the signal. The SNOW Performance kit is unfortunately locked at 200hz-2000hz, but would otherwise work fine.

 

[assault187]

I run the COOLINGMIST meth kit. Im very happy with it and later down the road you can always pick up the higher horsepower nozzles/injectors. I picked up the kit for $222 shipped direct off the website. Kit comes with everything needed except the meth. Check it out....

 

[dsm-onster]

Don't these two statements contradict each other though? If I get a 20 psi hobbs switch, then there's a difference of 30% IDC (50-->80) between when I first hit 20 psi and redline.

It's this reason that I've been looking for a good progressive controller. The new Devil's Own kit (which may or may not have entered the testing stage by now) is the only one that I know of which is based on the MAS signal, AND allows you to scale the range of the signal. The SNOW Performance kit is unfortunately locked at 200hz-2000hz, but would otherwise work fine.

Hobbs switches are adjustable . . . ???

Don't worry about the difference. Once full boost hits, worry about peak airflows (peak %IDC). Buy an nozzle for that.

Ideally, a kit that controls flow based on airflow is ideal. . . But, I've seen simpler systems match. Other than bogging, due to 'over-spray', I've seen no loss in performance w/ the water injection on or with it off when not altering the tune or boost level. This is w/ a hobbs switch that causes the system to flow the same at multible airflows. How an airflow progresive kit helps seams minimal to me.

 

[NATAS]

English Racing. /thread

 

[turboglenn]

Hobbs switches are adjustable . . . ???

Don't worry about the difference. Once full boost hits, worry about peak airflows (peak %IDC). Buy an nozzle for that.

Ideally, a kit that controls flow based on airflow is ideal. . . But, I've seen simpler systems match. Other than bogging, due to 'over-spray', I've seen no loss in performance w/ the water injection on or with it off when not altering the tune or boost level. This is w/ a hobbs switch that causes the system to flow the same at multible airflows. How an airflow progresive kit helps seams minimal to me.

Yes, Hobb's switches are adjustable, pull the rubber cap off the top and turn the scew with an allen wrench.

As for anything airflow based, I can't use it or calculate it from any logged parameter. Unless i were to calculate fuel usage and then multply byu volume base on A/F ratios ( too much for me, i hate math ) I am speed density with a full stand alone, which will also control teh on-off settings of the injection system.

Thats one reason i'm just looking for the most basic reliable kit with the nicest jetting/nozzle setup. Any control will be done via haltech.

 

[dsm-onster]

English Racing. /thread

Do they have good injection kits?

 

[2gGSX]

I'm aware that the hobbs switch is adjustable, but i meant that at there can be a wide range of IDCs across the same boost level as you make a pull. The progressive injection method would be how you would get around the bogging issue that you were talking about.

I need to read up on this still, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm aware that the hobbs switch is adjustable, but i meant that at there can be a wide range of IDCs across the same boost level as you make a pull. The progressive injection method would be how you would get around the bogging issue that you were talking about.

I need to read up on this still, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, Don't worry about the difference. Once full boost hits, worry about peak airflows (peak %IDC). Buy an nozzle for that. Setting for say 12psi means that you're surely going to a high enough fuel flow to merit your nozzle flow if you're running one that is 15-20% of your peak injector flow. That is why the 15-20% number is a rule-of-thumb.

I've done just fine. Felt no bogging. Nor have I experienced any shallower powerband by running the simplest kit possible. But, that's just me .

 

[KGB Pilot125]

I ran an SMC on a Syclone and on my GSX back in the day (maybe 4 years ago) one thing to think about is putting a nozzle in the hot side of the intercooler and at the TB elbow.

here is an email from richard at aquamist to a fellow syty owner.

>From: "Richard Lamb" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: "Richard Lamb" <[email protected]>
>To: "Ivanko Barbell Company Authorized Dealer" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Intelligent Intercooler Spray Control Module
>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:02:14 +0100
>
>Hello Adam,
>
>We have been considered the option but recently we have come across
>something interesting and decided not to go for that particular product yet.
>
>One interesting finding recently whilst doing a product development test on
>a WRX. We placed a 0.4mm jet in front of the intercooler and a 1mm jet after
>the
>intercooler. During the 7- hour intemittant dyno runs, the intercooler never
>go above
>ambient - below ambient during idle when some residual water is still being
>evaporated.
>
>As soon as we removed the 0.4mm in front of the interccoler, we can see the
>speed the temparature on the cores rise, you can feel the heat as you
>approach it with
>you bear hand, never had the bravery to try, so we quickly spray the
>inetrcooler with the
>water jet and continued for 10 minutes., it was still too hot to tuoch!
>Another amazing
>thing we discovered - we were only injecting 70cc/minute! It is an
>interesting fact
>that spraying the intercooler externally does not have the same effect as
>internal WI.
>
>
>Richard
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ivanko Barbell Company Authorized Dealer" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:18 PM
>Subject: Intelligent Intercooler Spray Control Module
>
>
> > Any plans on producing something like this?
> >
> > AutoSpeed - The World's Best High Performance Online Magazine
> >
> > Love your products. Keep up the good work.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Adam Auerbach
> > GMC Syclone #2419
> >

 

[boosted spartan]

im running the snow performance 2d maf kit and i love it!! running 25psi all day on my evo 3 16g.

 

[Devilsown]

- Where to put your alcohol-water injection nozzle DevilsOwn Injection

here is a good write up on where to put your nozzle.