S366 for my setup! Overkill or no problem!

[ceedawg]

Just wanna know if I'm waisting my time or if this turbo is a go.

Mods:
AEM EMS
950cc inj
FFwd connection modded 6 blt blck
1.crower rods
2.Ross 9.0:1 pistons
3. ARP studs everywhere,blk and head
4 Butcher crank
Custom tubular exh mani with tial 38mm wastegate
Stck 1g mani with 1gNT throttle body
Stck tranny 70k miles

I'm still in search of a high hp low boost low EGT turbo that could give me 450 to 550hp at 23 to 25 lb boost. I understand the 3 series(ex:S366)are the ticket.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

It would be an excellent choice although I don't see the need for a 66mm turbo to make those kind of numbers. I think the only down side I've seen with those turbos is that there not ball bearing. I assume though your not to worried with lag. I say go for it and let us know what you find out

 

[ceedawg]

It would be an excellent choice although I don't see the need for a 66mm turbo to make those kind of numbers. I think the only down side I've seen with those turbos is that there not ball bearing. I assume though your not to worried with lag. I say go for it and let us know what you find out

Thanx for the reply.
I was told that the spool characteristics would be pretty similar to a GT35R.
Plus I'm kinda scared of going BB because I heard they are not rebuildable for the cheap and some have said I'd have to replace the whole thing. Expensive!

 

[2gGSX]

It's true that you can't rebuild a BB center section.

Why are you afraid of running higher boost to meet your goals? I'm not so sure that your goals for spooling the turbo are completely accurate, as Steve93Talon runs the 258 (58/80mm wheel) and is seeing ~30 psi at 4800 RPM on his setup. I seriously doubt you'd get spool characteristics similar to a 61mm ball bearing GT35R in a 66/92.7mm journal bearing turbo.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I have a BB PTE turbo since 2001 (has about 79K on it currently). I have the FP s/s oil feed line with a filter and I turbo time it for 1 min. not matter what, I change my oil every 3500 and flush and fill my coolant every 10K. Can't wait to see how you like the s366. I want one someday also

 

[Steve93Talon]

Just wanna know if I'm waisting my time or if this turbo is a go.

Mods:
AEM EMS
950cc inj
FFwd connection modded 6 blt blck
1.crower rods
2.Ross 9.0:1 pistons
3. ARP studs everywhere,blk and head
4 Butcher crank
Custom tubular exh mani with tial 38mm wastegate
Stck 1g mani with 1gNT throttle body
Stck tranny 70k miles

I'm still in search of a high hp low boost low EGT turbo that could give me 450 to 550hp at 23 to 25 lb boost. I understand the 3 series(ex:S366)are the ticket.

AEM is overkill for your HP goals, you're either gonna have a steep learning curve or a big bill with your tuner. DSMlink will suit your needs fine for 1/2 the price.

950s are plenty for your power goals, but too small to fully support an S366. I'd go with 1150s and never have to worry about upgrading later. Don't forget a big pump(s), -6 or -8 line, FPR,...

A bone stock 6 bolt will handle your power goals easily. If you're building an engine, I'd go lower comp. The 1G intake mani will work for your power goals, but it'll fall flat over 7k. You might want to consider a SMIM to maximize the powerband. Also, if you're revving out to 8k+, you'll need a good valvetrain and big cams like 280s or FP2Xs to take advantage of it. Also, skip the standard ARPs and get the newer head studs that won't stretch. You might also want to read up on head gasket options, o-ringing,...

What manifold did you have in mind? Are you planning on going T3 or T4? Divided? The hotside you choose will greatly affect spool. Carl at GVautosport is running the S366 T4 .83 divided and sees full boost in the low 6s. The S362 is probably a better match for you. It should see full boost in the low 5s and will easily support your goals with room to grow.

Your stock tranny will probably grenade the center diff after a few hard launches, which could take out other components and even crack the case. You might want to put up the money now to build a race trans, it'll save you money down the line.

As 2gGSX said, why do you want to run such low boost? The whole point of going with a big turbo is to crank it up. EGTs are pretty much irrelevant unless you're monitoring all 4 cylinders. Bear in mind that supporting mods like cams, SMIMs, and turbine housing size affect VE, thereby affecting how much boost you need to run to make X amount of power. Just slapping a huge compressor side on a stock-ish setup is gonna require alot more boost to make power. The flip side is if you build a race setup with optimized top end VE, the car might be a dog in the midrange which will make street driving suck. The trick is to find the best balance of parts for your goals.

 

[ceedawg]

AEM is overkill for your HP goals, you're either gonna have a steep learning curve or a big bill with your tuner. DSMlink will suit your needs fine for 1/2 the price.

950s are plenty for your power goals, but too small to fully support an S366. I'd go with 1150s and never have to worry about upgrading later. Don't forget a big pump(s), -6 or -8 line, FPR,...

A bone stock 6 bolt will handle your power goals easily. If you're building an engine, I'd go lower comp. The 1G intake mani will work for your power goals, but it'll fall flat over 7k. You might want to consider a SMIM to maximize the powerband. Also, if you're revving out to 8k+, you'll need a good valvetrain and big cams like 280s or FP2Xs to take advantage of it. Also, skip the standard ARPs and get the newer head studs that won't stretch. You might also want to read up on head gasket options, o-ringing,...

What manifold did you have in mind? Are you planning on going T3 or T4? Divided? The hotside you choose will greatly affect spool. Carl at GVautosport is running the S366 T4 .83 divided and sees full boost in the low 6s. The S362 is probably a better match for you. It should see full boost in the low 5s and will easily support your goals with room to grow.

Your stock tranny will probably grenade the center diff after a few hard launches, which could take out other components and even crack the case. You might want to put up the money now to build a race trans, it'll save you money down the line.

As 2gGSX said, why do you want to run such low boost? The whole point of going with a big turbo is to crank it up. EGTs are pretty much irrelevant unless you're monitoring all 4 cylinders. Bear in mind that supporting mods like cams, SMIMs, and turbine housing size affect VE, thereby affecting how much boost you need to run to make X amount of power. Just slapping a huge compressor side on a stock-ish setup is gonna require alot more boost to make power. The flip side is if you build a race setup with optimized top end VE, the car might be a dog in the midrange which will make street driving suck. The trick is to find the best balance of parts for your goals.

Well I already have the AEM EMS in my car. I bought the DSM link back in early 2k late 1990's when it first came out and because of the turbo I had on the car,the Maf,my t3t4 60 trim garrett, and the link ,I had serious drivability problems at idle. Car would always shut off when I came to a light.

I had Jeff Hill install the AEM for me back in 2k4 and I love it. After all is said and done I will have Sean Ivey tune the car. If you look in my sig you will see my present mods. The mods I listed other than the AEM EMS (in car now)and the 1g intake(in car) are sitting here in my storage rm. Oh including my Holset HX40/35 brand new,which I want to sell.

Yes I do plan on sending my stck tranny to Shep as I'm aware that the motor will be spinning to 8500+.

Depending on if I use this head gasket(ICS with built in o-ring in gasket) or not I will probably o-ring the blck.



Basically at the track I can see running 30+psi boost to really take advantage of the turbo. I already have a built blck,a new dual valve spring setup,wrked head with my present cams waitring to go.
The intake mani part is sort of debatable but That and the injectors would perhaps be the only thing other than the tranny I need to upgrade.

GOAL:

But since I will be driving this car on the street more often than track and I want a low 11sec car that can run 125mph plus in the 1/4 mile full interior.I was just wondering if this S366 would be the ticket. If I need to crank up the boost somewhat so be it. If you think I'll be better off just going with an S362 or smaller(S200 series turb),I will gladly take your advice. If a full HX40 pro is available I'd go that way too.

It's only because I found a S366 T4 .83 A/R split hsing for a good price I figured I'd consider it.If it's gonna be overkill for what I want and I can still have pretty descent low end,good midrange and incredible topend,I am very open for a turbo suggestion. How would you describe your S258 turbo Steve?

Thanx Steve and others.

 

[2gGSX]

If your goal is to trap 125 mph in the quarter, then any turbo you mentioned above will do the trick, including the Garrett T3/T4 60 trim and the HX35/40. TimG just did 11.60 at 120 with a dying transmission, and someone else in that thread (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm...thern-dsm-shootout-tsi-vs-tsi-video-feed.html) did 125 on the same turbo in a Mitsu housing.

Futureproofing is all good and well, but if you're going to be satisfied with 125-130 mph traps, you don't need a gigantic (61+mm) turbo to do it. Anything with choke flow around 60 lbs/min (GT35R, SCM61, 60-1, FP Red, S256, S258, etc.) will do that easily--people with less turbo don't seem to have problems either (3052, GT3076R, FP Green, etc)

 

[Steve93Talon]

Well I already have the AEM EMS in my car. I bought the DSM link back in early 2k late 1990's when it first came out and because of the turbo I had on the car,the Maf,my t3t4 60 trim garrett, and the link ,I had serious drivability problems at idle. Car would always shut off when I came to a light.

Not trying to talk you out of AEM if you already have it and like it, but having tuned both, the AEM is just more headache than it's worth to me and DSMlink gives me 100% stock like driveability. Bear in mind you also had V1 which didn't have any airflow correction tables, so if you were running a non-stock MAF that could've been your issue.

Oh including my Holset HX40/35 brand new,which I want to sell.

That turbo is plenty for your goals, I'd consider keeping it. Is it in the BEP bolt-on housing? I've got a divided T3 hotside for an HX35 turbine wheel sitting here if you're interested, then if you ever want more you'd already be set up for any T3 housing turbo.

Yes I do plan on sending my stck tranny to Shep as I'm aware that the motor will be spinning to 8500+.

Don't forget there are plenty of reputable vendors locally who build trannies too.

Depending on if I use this head gasket(ICS with built in o-ring in gasket) or not I will probably o-ring the blck.

We're running the ICS gasket on Tort's car, holding great at 35psi on pump/meth with an FP35R bolt-on so far. They seem to be hit or miss though, so YMMV.

Basically at the track I can see running 30+psi boost to really take advantage of the turbo. I already have a built blck,a new dual valve spring setup,wrked head with my present cams waitring to go.
The intake mani part is sort of debatable but That and the injectors would perhaps be the only thing other than the tranny I need to upgrade.

Do you plan to run race gas at the track? You'll be able to get alot more out of less turbo with more octane, whether it's race gas, meth injection, E85,...

But since I will be driving this car on the street more often than track and I want a low 11sec car that can run 125mph plus in the 1/4 mile full interior.I was just wondering if this S366 would be the ticket. If I need to crank up the boost somewhat so be it. If you think I'll be better off just going with an S362 or smaller(S200 series turb),I will gladly take your advice. If a full HX40 pro is available I'd go that way too.

Honestly, you'll probably hate the S366. Anything in the 50-60lb/min range is more suited to what you're looking for.

It's only because I found a S366 T4 .83 A/R split hsing for a good price I figured I'd consider it.If it's gonna be overkill for what I want and I can still have pretty descent low end,good midrange and incredible topend,I am very open for a turbo suggestion. How would you describe your S258 turbo Steve?

I'm still on the stock engine and intake mani, and the S258 is making insane power so far. It hits hard in the midrange and doesn't fall off up top. I haven't even run on C16 yet, but even on pump it's more power than I need. All 4 tires break loose from a 3rd gear roll.

If your goal is to trap 125 mph in the quarter, then any turbo you mentioned above will do the trick, including the Garrett T3/T4 60 trim and the HX35/40. TimG just did 11.60 at 120 with a dying transmission, and someone else in that thread (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm...thern-dsm-shootout-tsi-vs-tsi-video-feed.html) did 125 on the same turbo in a Mitsu housing.

Futureproofing is all good and well, but if you're going to be satisfied with 125-130 mph traps, you don't need a gigantic (61+mm) turbo to do it. Anything with choke flow around 60 lbs/min (GT35R, SCM61, 60-1, FP Red, S256, S258, etc.) will do that easily--people with less turbo don't seem to have problems either (3052, GT3076R, FP Green, etc)

Exactly. Hell, Tort went 11.0 @ 126.7 on a 20g with stock intake awhile back. The car had some weight reduction, but it still would've been good for 123-124 full weight. The key to good #s is tuning + correct balance of parts to make a fat powerband.

 

[ceedawg]

Not trying to talk you out of AEM if you already have it and like it, but having tuned both, the AEM is just more headache than it's worth to me and DSMlink gives me 100% stock like driveability. Bear in mind you also had V1 which didn't have any airflow correction tables, so if you were running a non-stock MAF that could've been your issue.



That turbo is plenty for your goals, I'd consider keeping it. Is it in the BEP bolt-on housing? I've got a divided T3 hotside for an HX35 turbine wheel sitting here if you're interested, then if you ever want more you'd already be set up for any T3 housing turbo.



Don't forget there are plenty of reputable vendors locally who build trannies too.



We're running the ICS gasket on Tort's car, holding great at 35psi on pump/meth with an FP35R bolt-on so far. They seem to be hit or miss though, so YMMV.





Do you plan to run race gas at the track? You'll be able to get alot more out of less turbo with more octane, whether it's race gas, meth injection, E85,...



Honestly, you'll probably hate the S366. Anything in the 50-60lb/min range is more suited to what you're looking for.



I'm still on the stock engine and intake mani, and the S258 is making insane power so far. It hits hard in the midrange and doesn't fall off up top. I haven't even run on C16 yet, but even on pump it's more power than I need. All 4 tires break loose from a 3rd gear roll.



Exactly. Hell, Tort went 11.0 @ 126.7 on a 20g with stock intake awhile back. The car had some weight reduction, but it still would've been good for 123-124 full weight. The key to good #s is tuning + correct balance of parts to make a fat powerband.

Well ,I guess I'm back to using the Holset hybrid I have then unless I find a 40Xpro. I must say that all of this info is 100% helpful.


If you r looking to dump the split T3 hotside let me know. I do have a bullseye turbine T3 flanged housing on her.There was just so much written in the Holset thread that made me think the Hx40/35 was a bad look because of the small HX35 turbine wheel and the fact that the compressor side has an 8 bladed wheel. Am I misinformed?


By the way my MAF was modded when I was using the DSM link back then. I'm just gonna stick with the AEM since I sold my ECU with the chip back in 2k4.

Race gas will definitely be in the equation street and trackwise but mostly for the track. The goal is an 11 sec car that can run 125mph +, full interior.Steve I will be following you guys closely!And thankyou also 2Ggsx!

 

[TurboAnything]

Hey i think the 366 is a perfect turbo if your looking for something like a 35r. I love my s256 and for some reason im the only one with good spool times do some more research. Is the s366 the one with the billet compressor?

 

[2gGSX]

Hey i think the 366 is a perfect turbo if your looking for something like a 35r. I love my s256 and for some reason im the only one with good spool times do some more research. Is the s366 the one with the billet compressor?

Having the stock cams plays a big part in helping your spool-up. The 366 and your 256 are completely different animals, and it won't just spool "a couple hundred RPM later" if that's what you're thinking.

 

[TurboAnything]

i would assume 4600-5000 fulls boost on something that large. Just for that 2g im going to put in some cams! I think this turbo will really shine with a little more flow. Im now at 31psi and there is no traction in any gear all i need is log to post.

 

[2gGSX]

I'm surprised you're not maxing out your injectors. I'm already at ~85% at only 23 psi of boost, but then again I'm only running 10:1 right now.

 

[TimG]

The HX35/40 hybrid will get you to where you want to go. In fact, it's exactly what I'm going to be doing for my next years turbo.

BTW - that 121 trap I pulled was still in the tuning stage. Shortly after the track day, my 3rd gear went to mush and I was unable to go back with a better tune.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Hey i think the 366 is a perfect turbo if your looking for something like a 35r. I love my s256 and for some reason im the only one with good spool times do some more research. Is the s366 the one with the billet compressor?

The S366 sees full boost in the low 6s with the divided T4 .83 housing. You're talking about a wheel that's 10mm larger than yours. And you're not the only one with good spool times on the S256. I saw 32psi by like 3700 with mine. The bolt-on housing helps spool up alot, my S258 in the .70 T3 spools 1k later. The S366 is not a billet wheel.

 

[ceedawg]

The S366 sees full boost in the low 6s with the divided T4 .83 housing. You're talking about a wheel that's 10mm larger than yours. And you're not the only one with good spool times on the S256. I saw 32psi by like 3700 with mine. The bolt-on housing helps spool up alot, my S258 in the .70 T3 spools 1k later. The S366 is not a billet wheel.

In going with the HX40/35 or full HX40 pro will the spoolup characteristics be similar to a S256 or 258 with the BEP .55AR hsing? Steve ,what was Carl's HX40pro setup using again?

I think I've given up on the S366 altogether.

 

[Steve93Talon]

In going with the HX40/35 or full HX40 pro will the spoolup characteristics be similar to a S256 or 258 with the BEP .55AR hsing? Steve ,what was Carl's HX40pro setup using again?

Carl's HX40 ran the .55 bolt-on housing and saw 30+psi by 4k. Another friend of mine got the same turbo recently and just ran 11.7 @ 123 on pump/meth at 28psi, full weight with stock intake mani and 272s. He also sees full boost around 4k.

 

[ceedawg]

Carl's HX40 ran the .55 bolt-on housing and saw 30+psi by 4k. Another friend of mine got the same turbo recently and just ran 11.7 @ 123 on pump/meth at 28psi, full weight with stock intake mani and 272s. He also sees full boost around 4k.

Then a .70AR T3 split or non split turbine housing should give a higher mph and lower ET's if it were installed on the HX40pro would you say? Just a lil more laggy!

The S258 seems like an interesting option as well especially with this .70 T3 housing you mentioned.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Based on the AEM tune on Carl's best runs, the HX40pro in the .55 housing easily has 130+ traps in it. But yes, the bigger AR should trade spool for top end, assuming you have supporting mods that'll flow enough to wind it out.

 

[ceedawg]

Based on the AEM tune on Carl's best runs, the HX40pro in the .55 housing easily has 130+ traps in it.

Seems like the difference between his car and mines is that he has a big intake and nicer turbo. I should be good to go with the supporting mods.Thanks Steve this is all pretty encouraging.