60-1, Who's got 'em

[babyviper]

I' definately getting a 60-1 and trying to fiure out what wheel and ar. to get. I am fwd so I like lag and top end plus I'm going full garrett, no hybrid bull. I first thought about getting a stage 5 wheel with an 81 ar. but I heard it would lag way to much to even daily drive. After I thought it over a little bit I have come to the conclusion that I am going with the stage 5 wheel and a 63 ar. or a stage 3 wheel with an 81 ar.
Any input?

 

[dsm-onster]

I' definately getting a 60-1 and trying to fiure out what wheel and ar. to get. I am fwd so I like lag and top end

If you're FWD then you like lifting your foot instead of planting it. You'll still spin all over the place unless you modify the dynamics at your front chassis. . . and parts of the rear for that matter. Plus some of the drive train. Two turbos: one flows the same as the other; likes the same boost level as the other; and is otherwise the same; except for the spool time. . . Get the one with the quicker spool. It's foolish not to just lift a little and have the power there when you do manage to grab in the top of 3rd.

plus I'm going full garrett, no hybrid bull. I first thought about getting a stage 5 wheel with an 81 ar.

What does this mean? a stage 5 turbine wheel is a t3 turbine wheel and a 60-1 is a t4 compressor wheel. You have to have a hybrid to incorporate both choices.
. . . Do you mean a mitsu-garrett hybrid? Like the Forced Performance RED Turbo that has proven itself time and time and time and time and time again?

but I heard it would lag way to much to even daily drive.

What are your goals?:
-Do you want to reach the potential of the 60-1 compressor wheel?
-Is 25 psi by 4500 rpms satisfactory for you?
-How's your wallet?

After I thought it over a little bit I have come to the conclusion that I am going with the stage 5 wheel and a 63 ar. or a stage 3 wheel with an 81 ar.
Any input?

A stage 3 wheel is plenty big to make big power on the street. I'd start out w/ a small a/r (.63). And if you need more, upgrade to a larger a/r (like .82).

I wish I had gone to a stage 5 wheel and got a small a/r (smaller than in the .6 range) and then upgraded later... Lag is just going to be a part of this engines life if you want to get to get to a hp range worthy of choosing the 60-1 compressor over a smaller.

A note: I've seen guys w/ t3 stage 3 turbine wheels and .63 a/r housings go to the limits of what a 60-1 compressor can deliver... No need in giving yourself more lag than neccesary.
Another note: get the E cover for the compressor not the normal B cover that the typical 60-1 is delivered in. Larger compressor a/r (E vs. B) fans out the compressor map to the right and up. The "up" is important. This means more usable pressure ratio (higher boost potential at managable heat efficiencies). After all we are trying to mash alot of air into a 2.0L engine. . .

You really need to clarify your goals more.

 

[babyviper]

If you're FWD then you like lifting your foot instead of planting it. You'll still spin all over the place unless you modify the dynamics at your front chassis. . . and parts of the rear for that matter. Plus some of the drive train. Two turbos: one flows the same as the other; likes the same boost level as the other; and is otherwise the same; except for the spool time. . . Get the one with the quicker spool. It's foolish not to just lift a little and have the power there when you do manage to grab in the top of 3rd.

I appreciate the lag.

What does this mean? a stage 5 turbine wheel is a t3 turbine wheel and a 60-1 is a t4 compressor wheel. You have to have a hybrid to incorporate both choices.
. . . Do you mean a mitsu-garrett hybrid? Like the Forced Performance RED Turbo that has proven itself time and time and time and time and time again?

not a big fan of the mitsu-garrett hybrid they spool up faster cause of the smaller housing.

What are your goals?:
-Do you want to reach the potential of the 60-1 compressor wheel?
-Is 25 psi by 4500 rpms satisfactory for you?
-How's your wallet?

I do want to reach the full potential of the turbo, 25lbs. at 4500 souds great. AS far as the wallet goes I have lots of time which = time to save.

A stage 3 wheel is plenty big to make big power on the street. I'd start out w/ a small a/r (.63). And if you need more, upgrade to a larger a/r (like .82).

Would switching the wheel cost me the same price I brought the turb for. If so it's not worth it.

I wish I had gone to a stage 5 wheel and got a small a/r (smaller than in the .6 range) and then upgraded later... Lag is just going to be a part of this engines life if you want to get to get to a hp range worthy of choosing the 60-1 compressor over a smaller.

Again I like the lag but not to the point where I getting full boost at 6000. I am unaware of what rpm I am going to achive my max boost, so that is why I am asking. If I already knew what each wheel and and a/r raeched max boost at I would not be asking these questions I can analyze it for my self and come to my own conclusion.

A note: I've seen guys w/ t3 stage 3 turbine wheels and .63 a/r housings go to the limits of what a 60-1 compressor can deliver... No need in giving yourself more lag than neccesary.
Another note: get the E cover for the compressor not the normal B cover that the typical 60-1 is delivered in. Larger compressor a/r (E vs. B) fans out the compressor map to the right and up. The "up" is important. This means more usable pressure ratio (higher boost potential at managable heat efficiencies). After all we are trying to mash alot of air into a 2.0L engine. . .


You really need to clarify your goals more.

This was about the only helpful this you stated in the entire thread.

Would the TS04 cover be a better choice or is that the same as the E?

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

The turbo wont really surge unless you try to make power at 2500 rpm. I have a mitsu bolt on with the stage 5 wheel and my car is now fwd (couldnt find another awd trans). Im only running about 22-23 psi and it spins 1st and 2nd and 3rd gear pulls me across the road and a cloud of tire smoke is in the rear view.....mind you this is also on a blown head gasket, no porting, stock intake, cams, and tb.
I have full boost in 3rd gear at 4100 rpm but according to dsmlink, my airflow doesnt peak till over 5 for some reason (probably the low VE of my motor)
Its a good turbo, over 2k miles so far and i wanna keep turnin up the boost.

You're getting a full garret so you wont really have an issue, but the actuated turbo like i have sucks for trying to make boost.



Edit, i didnt take into consideration that my turbo will spool faster than yours. My friend has the Garret 60-1 with the stage 5 wheel on his eclipse fwd and sees full boost in 3rd gear by 4700.....and thats with an exaust leak and a horrible tune.

 

[dsm-onster]

Appreciating the lag is your choice. But if you could have both turbine flow and spool then why not just lift? Why restrict yourself?

This was about the only helpful this you stated in the entire thread.

Nothing helped you because you are wrong in your thinking about the mitsu garrett hybrid. It's great if you don't want such a turbo, but your reason why you don't want it is fundamentally flawed. I am sorry to be untactful now. I was attempting to be before. You said:

not a big fan of the mitsu-garrett hybrid they spool up faster cause of the smaller housing.

Housings AND turbine wheels contribute to spool-time/lag. The FP red does not spool faster than a t3 stage5 wheel w/ a .63 a/r housing. It flows about the same and spools about the same. It has a TDO6H wheel which flows more than a stage 5 t3 wheel (more lag). The lag is managable because of the small a/r housing used (which is the 8cm^2 hoising = around .57) . . . If it flows the same and has the same lag, then why is it not an option? It is equivalant to a stage 5 t3 w/a .63 a/r housing.WTF

A stage 3 wheel is plenty big to make big power on the street. I'd start out w/ a small a/r (.63). And if you need more, upgrade to a larger a/r (like .82).

Would switching the wheel cost me the same price I brought the turb for. If so it's not worth it.

I never mentioned anything about switching wheels. . Switching housing, which WAS mentioned, will be at the most $200 from the maunfacturer. Probably less, if you shop around.

Would the TS04 cover be a better choice or is that the same as the E?

I like the E cover. I can't say anything about the S as I havn't researched and found anyone with one and a 60-1 compressor.


Why won't you tell us how much horsepower you want? This would prevent you from thinking that I wasn't helping you w/ what I said. I'm trying to give you enough info to send you on your way to your successes. Why would you be nasty to someone who has your compressor and has your chassis and is giving you some friendly advice on what it takes to get the results you want? Not knowing that a mitsu-garrett hybrid can flow as much gasses as a full garrett would raise a flag to your research efforts and/or your confusion. Can you take your engine to such a flow level when you havn't researched this much or are as confused?

Do you wan this answer? "The 60-1 compressor is awesome. It flows good and the t3 wheel I have is plenty for what I'm running. I have lag but I reach 23-25 psi under 4500 rpms."

Lag will be there no matter what you choose and you'll likely not be satisfied w/ hp output because of your stock head.

 

[babyviper]

I reacted in a way that any person would react in reply to you r fist post you pretty much bashed everything I stated in the thead where you could have just easily asked the question you asked at the bottom of you post. "What are your goals" Now that that is out of the way.

I haven't updated my profile yet because I am in between cars I have a 98 fwd talon, mods are as follows.

-built trans with kaaz lsd from dogboxracing.
-act 2600 with street disc (will have to upgrade to max out turbo).
-6-bolt block that is currently getting scat rods and mahle pistons installed.
-stock 6-bolt head 3angle valve job with b.c. spings and retainers. debating on 272's and 280's.
-stock fuel lines with rewired 255 and charged-air bolt-on fpr.
-going with 880cc injectors and and the dsmlink.
-apex-i downpipe with thermal cat-back

I don't really have a set horsepower range but looking for around 500 wheel hp at high boost at the track but 400 daily driver like 22lbs. I am really not sure what to expect my only experience with this turbo is a srt-4 with the agp 60-1 kit. I plan to start with the mods I have listed and upgrade other parts later on like, smim, fuel system upgrade like rail and better fpr, 3" downpipe and a clutch. I don't plan on maxing this turbo out the first day but I do expect to get about 400 wheel for now until I get those other upgrades.

 

[Steve93Talon]

We set up a 60-1 P trim in Bullseye bolt-on housing on a friend's car. It ran 11.5 @ 123 on pump/meth with a pretty conservative tune. It was pretty laggy, fully boost was about 4800 rpms (30psi). You could go with something like this:

http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/garrettto4s601.html

But then again for barely more money you could go with something that'd spool about the same and have more power potential because of it's higher efficienct GT compressor wheel:

http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/gat4b.html

 

[dsm-onster]

I reacted in a way that any person would react in reply to you r fist post you pretty much bashed everything I stated in the thead where you could have just easily asked the question you asked at the bottom of you post. "What are your goals" Now that that is out of the way.

I haven't updated my profile yet because I am in between cars I have a 98 fwd talon, mods are as follows.

-built trans with kaaz lsd from dogboxracing.
-act 2600 with street disc (will have to upgrade to max out turbo).
-6-bolt block that is currently getting scat rods and mahle pistons installed.
-stock 6-bolt head 3angle valve job with b.c. spings and retainers. debating on 272's and 280's.
-stock fuel lines with rewired 255 and charged-air bolt-on fpr.
-going with 880cc injectors and and the dsmlink.
-apex-i downpipe with thermal cat-back

I don't really have a set horsepower range but looking for around 500 wheel hp at high boost at the track but 400 daily driver like 22lbs. I am really not sure what to expect my only experience with this turbo is a srt-4 with the agp 60-1 kit. I plan to start with the mods I have listed and upgrade other parts later on like, smim, fuel system upgrade like rail and better fpr, 3" downpipe and a clutch. I don't plan on maxing this turbo out the first day but I do expect to get about 400 wheel for now until I get those other upgrades.

I apologize for 'bashing everything you stated'. You sounded like you were asking a question based on improper conclusions. I do not want anyone to go down the wrong path and lose there money and time.

Based on what you have, the RS60 would be perfect for you. Or if you can't get one of those, 60-1 w/ an E cover and a t3 stage 3 w/ a .63 ar housing. If you go SMIM and 280 cams then you'll be looking for a .82 a/r housing soon afterwards perhaps. This compresor wheel like it up top and a high flowing housing that can bring on boost a decent rpm is going to proably give you all the room you want for growth. . .

I see where you're coming from now. You're used to working w/ a larger displacement engine (2.4L) and you're unsure how reducing displacement 10% and compensating w/ a smaller hot side will affect your bottem line.

-Get the E cover and arp headstuds. 22 might not yield 400hp w/ a stock longblock. But higher boost should. The e cover fans out that compressormap and gives us LITTLE 4-bangers more breath w/ decently efficient high boost.
-A good intercooler of course and a GOOD tune and you CAN run 25 psi on the street. Do you know anything about water injection? This MAY give you what you want w/ what you are willing to put into it; until you decide to get that smim, raise the rev limit (better valvetrain) and take your tranny to the limit.
-Fuel should be fine for more than your 500hp goal.
-definately upgrade your street clutch disk. I think your 2600 pp might be enough. . .

 

[babyviper]

Your the man! now all I gotta do is figure out which brand to get turbonetics or garrett. Probably gonna go with turbonetics cause of their warranty, t-netics=1yr and garrett=90dy's

 

[BrokenTsi]

I used to have an rs60. Much laggier then my 50 trim. I didn't care for it much. Altho, it had awesome top end power. The only time I saw real gains was at 27+psi. Anything less, it wasn't so impressive. I now run a 3082r .82 a/r.