20g question

[import1]

Ok im thinking about exactly what i am going to do to the car this summer and have a couple of questions. This is going to see mostly streets and some strip. I was looking at the time slips on the site and saw some 20g turbos into the low 12's. This is where i want to be, but on 93. I was think getting a used 20g, on the stock mani, 3in exhaust all the way back, front mount, dsm link, 255 fuel pump, fpr, bigger inj and so on. Can this be done with a built block and just a stock head? Is this setup that im looking at the right way to go about it? Any feedback is appreciated, thanks.

 

[Staytuned]

You could do it I think. But also don't rule out a good ol' 50 trim for a few extra lbs/min of air. Also couldn't hurt to throw in some FP cams.

 

[import1]

I am looking for a turbo that bolts up to the stock mani and im on a budget so i was thinking the 20g was the best way to go for this. I do not have enough to be throwing down on a brand new turbo so it would have to be used. What 50 trims are capable and still at a lower cost?

 

[Staytuned]

There are plenty of 50 trim turbos floating around the classifieds or even the vendors on this site have good deals on them + they bolt up to the stock mani and all you need is a install kit that contains drain tube and feed lines for oil.

 

[import1]

So do all 50 trims bolt up to the stock mani? Even T3/T4 50 trims?

 

[Staytuned]

No T3 turbine housing is not what you want. You want a mitsu flanged hybrid turbine housing.

Like this one AGP RS49

 

[import1]

Thats what i thought. Thanks

 

[90blacktsiawd]

or any of these

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=506

or these

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/home.php?cat=882

 

[rhamlinii]

I'd go 20g, they spool fast, and have lots of torgue. You already must know that topend on these turbos are enought to trap 120mph in a fullweight 1g or 2g. They also tend to outlast most 50 trims out there.

 

[import1]

That is why i was trying to figure out how easily they can go into the low 12s on pump gas with a stock head. Is this pushing the limits of that turbo? I know that a 50 trim flows more air, but does the 20g flow enough to get there on the pump without pushing the limits of it?

 

[Slow95gsx]

In your first posts you asked if it can be done with a built block and stock head. No need to build the bottom end as long as it is in good shape, stock bottom end can handle 12 second power easy. I say leave the bottom end stock, or do 1g rods 2g pistons and put cams and springs in the head. Cams will make a night and day difference in your topend. I went from stock cams to 272's and picked up 4 mph's in the 1/8 with no other changes. Just my .2 cents.
-Aaron

 

[Staytuned]

I'd go 20g They also tend to outlast most 50 trims out there.

Care to share the data behind this mis-information.

 

[rhamlinii]

Care to share the data behind this mis-information.

I myself have had both, a green used 14 months old(blew up after I sold it), 2 month old scm50 (on a friends car has shaft play) and a 20g just as tight as when I got it(8 months and still going). I even got rid of my my35r to go back to a 20g. It's to me the best daily driver turbo for me.

 

[rhamlinii]

That is why i was trying to figure out how easily they can go into the low 12s on pump gas with a stock head. Is this pushing the limits of that turbo? I know that a 50 trim flows more air, but does the 20g flow enough to get there on the pump without pushing the limits of it?

Yes and no, it depends on the tuner and your knock thresh hold. Some cars can get away with it, some can't. With then right fuel system, and a great front mount you may get away with 23 pounds on a 20g daily drvien. My friend just got rid of his, he did 11.70s @ 122.8 in his car. He was only at 26psi, on a mix of 93 and and 110. Again I'll say ever car is different, he had a 95gsx with out bumpers and a/c.He also have a 6bolt swap w/2g pistons, and 272/272 cams.

 

[CorvetteBoy]

Like rhamlinii has said,

You can definitly get a 20g equipped car into the 12.5 & below area, but its going to take the proper fuel and also cams are going to help tremendously with getting there. Getting there without a set of aggressive cams is a challenge, where as if you have the right cams (i'd have to say FP2 or straight 272s) it'll be alot easier to get there.

Obviously another key to getting there, and the most important one of all is: Tuning.

You mentioned getting DSMLink, throw a Wideband o2 System in the mix and you got all you'll ever need to tune all the fuel you'll be feeding that beastly turbo.

As for the whole 50-trim vs 20g thing... My opinion, alot of the budget 50 trims (being PTE/SBR/AGP) they DO NOT have the success rate that the Mitsu 20g does. If we're going to start considering Green/FP series 50 trims, then we're talking good stuff thats gone the mile, and back again. I wouldn't put a PTE/AGP 50 trim on my car, i've heard too much negativity on it and i'm not willing to risk it, i don't make enough money .

 

[JiggahMan]

a great front mount you may get away with 23 pounds on a 20g daily drvien.

Great front mount? I was pushin 25psi w/ only 1-2 degrees of knock on a Dejon STREET FMIC. I know you've seen those dinky ones that look like it's two smics with endtanks welded on.

 

[rhamlinii]

Great front mount? I was pushin 25psi w/ only 1-2 degrees of knock on a Dejon STREET FMIC. I know you've seen those dinky ones that look like it's two smics with endtanks welded on.

As I said in my post, some people can do it and some can't. I'm not worried about what you did. I tune for zero knock if possible. The better front mount you have, the better it works. The more it would help him reach his goals.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Great front mount? I was pushin 25psi w/ only 1-2 degrees of knock on a Dejon STREET FMIC. I know you've seen those dinky ones that look like it's two smics with endtanks welded on.

They are 2 stock sidemounts welded together.

And as for people not being willing to put a AGP/PTE 50 trim on there cars because of lack of durability. The regular AGP/PTE 50 trims are assembled in house to thier specs. The AGP t series is a Turbonetics turbo with a dsm bolt on housing. And all the new PTE BB turbos are straight from Garret with a dsm bolt on housing. No one can argue with the turbonetics 1 year no hassle warranty.

 

[import1]

I have not been here for a couple days so have not had time to respond. As far as people telling me to just use the stock motor, i can not. The motor is well on its way to crapping out on me, with bad compression and worn rings. I figure i might as well just beef up the bottom end so i dont have to rebuild again once i meet the power limit on it. However, i ask if it can be done with a built block and stock head because i my budget is lmited somewhat. From what everyone is saying it seems it can be done with the 20g or a slightly larger 50trim. It sounds like the 50 trim can reach that goal more easily due to larger flow capacity. Are the 50 trims really not as durable as the 20g is?

 

[90blacktsiawd]

A 16g can reach your goals if you want it to. And i agree with the build it once build it right attitude. If you have to do it anyways might as well throw a few goodies in.

Mistu turbos are known to last a long time. I mean look at how many people are still running the stock 14b and 13g for over 100k. But if you get a full Garret or Turbonectics turbo with just a bolt on housing your gonna be ok for awhile to come. Another place is Forced Performance though their 50 trim variant is more than the other turbos were talking about here.

Your going to have to get new oil lines to run a Garret center section. But your probably going to want to anways when you swap the turbo. And if you want the warranty it's probably going to be mandatory.

If your going to get a 50 trim just try to stick with a more reputable company.

 

[terminaltsi]

if all you want is low 12's, a big16g will get you there easily enough. a 20g or 50 trim will get you into the 11's pretty easily. if you're going to be driving on the street a lot, go with the smaller turbo for more low end torque.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

if all you want is low 12's, a big16g will get you there easily enough. a 20g or 50 trim will get you into the 11's pretty easily. if you're going to be driving on the street a lot, go with the smaller turbo for more low end torque.

A 20g is not a huge turbo. It's definately a turbo with good street manners. And there are plenty of people riding around on 50 and 60 trims on the street as well. It really comes down to how much lag you can deal with. And if you just want to floor it and go fast or downshift and floor it.

 

[CorvetteBoy]

A 20g is not a huge turbo. It's definately a turbo with good street manners. And there are plenty of people riding around on 50 and 60 trims on the street as well. It really comes down to how much lag you can deal with. And if you just want to floor it and go fast or downshift and floor it.

I definately second this notion, a 20g is not a monster. Its a good street turbo, but you need to have the car tuned a bit tighter then you would with a 16g to get the upmost streetability with it. It can spool very well under 4000rpm.

Its very very hard to beat that turbo on the street, great mid-range with all sorts of top end.

 

[terminaltsi]

A 20g is not a huge turbo. It's definately a turbo with good street manners. And there are plenty of people riding around on 50 and 60 trims on the street as well. It really comes down to how much lag you can deal with. And if you just want to floor it and go fast or downshift and floor it.

i wasn't really referring to the 20g as a huge turbo; i was trying to say that the b16g will get him where he wants to be while still making good low end torque without having to downshift and rev all the time.
i had a 50 trim on a fwd car and it was nice on th ehighway for top end, but around town it was very boring to drive. no torque under 3800 rpm, always had to downshift to get boost if i was just cruising. now on my gVR4 i have an evo 3 16g and i like it much more. torque all the time without downshifting and the top end, while not as good as a fwd witha 50 trim, is still great.

 

[import1]

I'm not really concerned with around the town driving even though this will be a daily driver. It is more important to me what it can do at the track and on pump gas. Thanks for all the replies, keep them coming.