14b install. porting and other questions.

[yup talon]

I picked up a 14b a couple weeks ago for $100 with like NO shaft play. after waiting around for other parts - I'm finally getting to install it this week. I'll also be taking the a/c system out of my car too while things are being torn apart and out of the way.

I've already ported the exhaust inlet and the wastegate passage, but i was wondering if porting the exhaust turbine outlet would help at all. Is there anything else i should do to this turbo before installing it? any other porting, or cleaning, any sort of prepping. also, ive heard of using a different oil feed source as opposed to the stock feed location. is there a benefit to this? I'd rather just re-use the stock location to make it easier, but if theres some benefit or reason behind running it from like the head or somewhere else then I'll make the effort. If i use a different source - what do i do about the old one? just plug it? I read somewhere that if i remove my A/C that i would no longer need the drivers side radiator fan, is this true?

Any other tips/hints/tricks of the trade would be much appreciated also, as this will be my first time installing a turbo. Thanks.

 

[98turbo]

I would leave the the oil line in the stock place because you are getting fresh filtered oil from that location. Also, the j-pipe you are using might require you to remove your fan, so be prepared to do that. It's smart to drain all of your radiator fluid and oil, if you don't, you're going to have a really big mess on your hands. Umm, spray some liquid wrench on your bolts the night prior, you would be amazed at how well that works plus you don't want to break a bolt off in your head or turbo....anything else you want to know, just ask. I installed a 14b like 3 weeks ago so I know what your going through....

 

[yup talon]

I've already started taking everything apart. All the hard thigns to get off are already off. (or so i hope) The only things i still need to disconnect are the oil feed line, the two downpipe nuts, and the water lines bolted to the turbo. (soaked everything with PB blaster a day prior to removal. the exhaust mani nuts came off no problem at all with a breaker bar - didnt break any studs either ) All fuilds were drained first too.

my only other worry are the water lines - i know they need to be bent and i dont want to break them. how did you bend them? or am i assuming this to be harder than it really is?

i bought my install kit from extremepsi.com seems pretty complete. does anyone know if my greddy lower i/c pipe will still be able to connect to this j-pipe with a 90* coupler? (<---or whatever i could/should use)

 

[96GSTSTT]

i got my kit from extreme psi also. the only thing i can tell you is you do need to bend the wter lines. the one at the front of the turbo(drain) needes to be bent so that the banjo fitting fits flush and the line its self needs to be bent outward. your goin to need a longer hose to. the feed line i got off of my t-25 so it fit perfectly. the oil feed line is a pain in the ass to tighten if you try and do it with the manifold bolted on the the houseing. everything else went pretty smoothly. make sure you get the j-pipe as snug as you can get it so you dont have a boost leak there. and prime the turbo before starting. all advise given to me by oldman.

josh

 

[Eastwood95]

Hey the water lines are pretty easy to bend, just dont snap them in half, that would suck........................Also like the above post said, when your done, take your spark plug wires out of the engine before starting your car up for the first time to prime the turbo with oil. Just crank the car for a few seconds, then hook em back up and start it up for real........

 

[yup talon]

thanks for the advice thus far guys.... but does anyone know if porting the exhaust turbine outlet will help/hurt???

 

[oldman]

thanks for the advice thus far guys.... but does anyone know if porting the exhaust turbine outlet will help/hurt???

Porting the turbine wheel exit will not be neccessary as per vfaq, though I did enlarge it a little to match the gasket. You do however want to port the area behind the flapper to allow it to open more then enlarge the wastegate path as described here. If you choose to do this, you must match the gasket (grind it down if need be) and o2 housing like this. Since you show signs of interest and knowlege for porting, I would also suggest taking a look at this thread to make sure there isn't anything else to port.

To prime the turbo you don't need to pull the plugs, just pull the mpi fuse and crank the car a bit.

the oil feed line is a pain in the ass to tighten if you try and do it with the manifold bolted on the the houseing.

The problem is you'll have to bolt on the manifold in oder to figure out how much to bent the water lines, this is my suggestion.

Put the manifold on with just a couple of nuts tighten down by hand, bolt the turbo on the manifold with two bolts again, hand tight. Make your adjustment to the water lines and once your satisfied, unbolt the turbo and manifold and connect all four lines to the turbo before you bolt everything back on. Make sure you have new correct size copper crush washers for all banjo bolts. Do not re-use the turbo bolts and use anti-seize on the bolt thread, new gaskets all around.

Finally the most important but often neglected, a complete intake pressure test like described here before you go WOT testing your new 14b, probaby the number 1 turbo killer besides oil starvation.

Good luck.

96GSTSTT: I forgot the maf this morning, I just put it in my car so I don't forget tomorrow.

 

[yup talon]

Thanks oldman, that was a wonderful reference for port work. Maybe i could post some pics of my porting and have you grade them. I've ported the area behind my flapper and the chamber, and the exhaust inlet uncluding a better path to the wastegate passage. After removing my exhaust manifold last night, i noticed that it was pretty much untouched, so i'll be porting that tonight as well. Probably the runners just a bit, but mostly the collector area and divider. I'll probably take a chunk out of my turbine outlet too just because the turbo is already off.

another problem i ran into last night was the oil feed line. guys that bought the extremepsi install kit chime in please..... i disconnected the stock feed line halfway between the turbo and the oil pump. but now i dont know where or how to connect my stainless oil feed line. Im having big troubles getting the bottom end of the stock oil feed line disconnected from the oil pump, but is that all i need to do? then connect that "L" shaped adapter right to the oil pump? i was thinking about just cutting the stock feed line so i could fit a air gun over it to remove it from the pump, but i dont want to cut that line and then still not be able to get it off, if theres another way around it i would like to know.

also guys with the extremepsi kit could you confirm this.... im connecting the little blue adapter directly to the turbo. connected to that is the L shaped adapter with the twistable female end on it. (that connects to the little blue adapter) then the other end of the L shaped adapter connects to the stainless oil line. and i am assuming the other L adapter will be connected to the other end of the stainless oil line. (and that L adapter will plug into the oil pump???)


sorry if this all sounds confusing, ill try to explain it better if you cant understand what im trying to say.

 

[oldman]

Maybe i could post some pics of my porting and have you grade them. .

Do it, not for me to grade but for others to benefit from.

 

[ozzeran]

I would leave the the oil line in the stock place because you are getting fresh filtered oil from that location. Also, the j-pipe you are using might require you to remove your fan, so be prepared to do that. It's smart to drain all of your radiator fluid and oil, if you don't, you're going to have a really big mess on your hands. Umm, spray some liquid wrench on your bolts the night prior, you would be amazed at how well that works plus you don't want to break a bolt off in your head or turbo....anything else you want to know, just ask. I installed a 14b like 3 weeks ago so I know what your going through....

Hmm, is it true that some install kits have you take the fan off your car? I'm considering getting a 14b sometime for my 95gst but didnt want to remove any fans. Is there a particular named install kit that does not need this or are they all the same?

Thanks

 

[yup talon]

ozzeran - taking out your drivers side radiator fan is the least of your worries if you plan on doing a turbo swap, its only 4 bolts so i wouldnt worry about needing to take it off anyhow, it'll only make things way easier and give you more room. Im pretty sure that different install kits wouldnt make any difference in needing to take that off or not.


update on my status - so i was ready to go at it last night and get it done even if it took me into the wee hours of the night. unfortunatly, i broke off the oil feed fitting that goes onto the turbo. for future reference to those doing this install... DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN THE OIL FITTING THAT GOES INTO THE OIL FEED INLET OF THE TURBO my stupid ass used an air gun cause i figured (like the water lines) that they needed to be super tight. but i ended up braking the fitting inside of the turbo so now i have to wait until tomorrow to get a new one overnighted from extremepsi.com other than that everything else seems to be going smoothly (**knocks on wood**) i ported the collector of the exhaust manifold, and shined up the runners a bit. i will post pictures of everything later.

oh and i still cant get the stock oil feed line out of the oil pump. ive all but totally stripped the smaller nut on there, and am still thinking of just cutting the line to fit an air gun onto it. im thinking of maybe just running the braided line to the STOCK bottom half of the oil feed line. or should i just plug the end of that and run the stainless line all the way to the pump and into the other inlet/outlet there? again sorry if this all sounds confusing. - i dont know exact terminology for some of these parts.

 

[ozzeran]

Oh i misread, i thought he meant permanently taking it off. Nevermind.

 

[yup talon]

pictures...

 

[yup talon]

The first picture is a picture of the back of the motor by where the a/c pump used to be. i removed it, and the bracket that holds the pump to the motor. After taking out that hefty mounting bracket, i went to put the bolt back in, and 3 washers to compensate for where the mounting bracket used to be. well somehow i overtightened that too and broke the bolt off. I cut down a little bit of whats oeft of that bolt and put it back in there with the washers, but its BARELY holding. like MAYBE one or two threads. So ive got to take it in somewhere to get that tapped and have a new bolt put in. should i be safe driving it to my mechanic without that bolt in there securely???? (shop is like 3-4 miles away) or should i have it towed there? (would rather not have it towed if i dont have to)

the second picture is everything i removed connected to the a/c system, i weighed it and found it to be 40 lbs exactly. (including drivers side radiator fan)

the third picture is the oil fitting i broke off in the turbo last night. new fitting will be here tomorrow morning before 10am they said

fourth picture is the exhaust manifold collector area where i ported it. i think mycarbide burr is about cashed now cause its not working as well anymore and that looks a little rough.

fifth picture is how far open the wastegate flapper opens now after grinding behind/around it.

sixth picture is the exhaust inlet after being ported.

 

[oldman]

I will give you some constructive criticism.

1. You're lucky you got the broken bolt out of the turbo, make sure no metal fragments got into the turbo. I put a right size copper crush washer when I did my turbo install to fill up the gap so I couldn't over tighten the bolt, it fits perfectly.

2. Manifold collector: Porting looks good but it does need to be cleaned up a little, sand it down and smooth out all the rough edges, make sure it mates up to the turbine perfectly.

3. Wastegate exit: Looks like the door opens fully which is important, however the shape looks deformed and again, rough edges needs to be smooth out more. Make sure it mate up withe the o2 housing perfectly. You also have a lot of cracks, a lot more than my old 16g when I took it off.

4. Turbine inlet: If you want to eliminate any possibility of boost creep, I would suggest you port the inlet more like the other thread. Also big cracks here, I hope it won't affect spool up. Make sure it mates up with the manifold collector.

Another problem I see is that none of the flange surfaces looks to be in good shape, especially the turbine inlet. You might have hard time getting SS gaskets to seal. If they're truly in bad shape, I suggest getting it resurfaced or buy copper gaskets from FFDW Connection which will help seal it better.

 

[yup talon]

I blew the turbo out again with the air compressor so i should be all set about any metal fragments that possibly got in there.

I do need to clean up the exhaust mani collector area a bit, i havent gone at it with the dremel yet though, so i will do that.

Its only somewhat rough right around the edge arond the o2 flapper chamber, but its pretty smooth inside. My tubular o2 housing inlet is already as big as the turbo wastegate exit chamber so im not going to grind that area anymore. but i will try smoothing the area a bit more. with this o2 housing ive noticed ive got a lot of room to work with at the turbine exit too, so ill probably port that and the gasket out a bit.

I didnt go balls out with this exhaust inlet on the turbo because of the cracks, i opened it up a considerable amount and took the step out, but i felt where i went with it was a nice chunk out already i'll see what i can do about making it smoother in that area.

i think im OK with the surface around the flange areas too, maybe it was just some dirt or something else in the pics, but im sure theyre all smooth.

thanks a bunch for all the help oldman

 

[oldman]

You're welcome, keep us posted.

 

[Quasimondo]

I think you should chuck that exhaust housing and get a new one. The cracks you see running from the inside of the exhaust housing inlet to the wastegate opening are only going to get worse and you'll eventually have problems building boost because it will leak from around the wastegate. The exhaust housing on my old 14B was in the exact location and all I had was a tiny 2mm gap between the flapper and the housing walls which was enough for me to not see full boost until 4500 rpm.

I know Mach V sells them, and I think they have housings that already have 7cm inlets and enlarged wastegate openings so you won't need to port them out.

 

[yup talon]

Quasimondo - i really dont intend to even have this turbo on for very long. I'm going to be installing this myself, and i figured i'd rather make a small step before i shell out for a evo III 16g. thanks for the warning though.

 

[yup talon]

so yesterday, i started putting everything back in. dropped everything in as one uint pretty much. everything already connected to the turbo when being dropped in was as follows: oil reeturn line, SS oil feed line, both water lines, o2 housing, o2 sensor, and exhaust mani. i just unhooked that big radiator hose in the way and i had no problem.

I used antiseize on the turbo-ehxhaust mani bolts, and the o2 sensor-turbo bolts. i used a little JB weld on the oil return line bolts that connect to the oil pan (ive ALWAYS had a leak there, until my last oil change ...) and after filling it with oil and about an hour of nervously checking everything over twice, tightening shit up, and unplugging the spark plugs to prime it, i decided to finally give it a whirl. (oil is already leaking from oil return connection at this point ) primed it for about 20-25 seconds. then i plugged the spark plugs back in, and crossed my fingers. she fired right up though, no problem. after letting it idle for about 1½-2 minutes, i saw oil leaking from where the SS oil feed line mated with the bottom half of the stock oil feed line. it looks like the threads may not have been the same pitch or something maybe, because the SS line looks like it screwed on to the stock line a little crooked.

when i get out of work in the morning i am going to try and fix that bad oil feed connection. if it doesnt work, ill add that to my list of shit to fix for my mechanic on monday.

 

[oldman]

At least you know for sure the turbo is getting oil.

 

[yup talon]

Im brainstorming ideas about my oil feed leak. they are...

1. discconnect the SSoil line form the stock lower half, put teflon tape on it, and try screwing it back on. (my least favorite option, cause i dont THINK the threads are matching up as it is)

2. get oil feed source from the head, and cap off the existing lower half of the stock feed line.

3. take my chances cutting the stock oil feed line RIGHT by the oil pump. so i can get an air gun on there to try taking it off. then connect my SS oil line right to there using the suppllied L shaped connector.(only problem i see with this is, if i still cant get the thing out, ill need to have the car towed to any shop)

what would you do?

 

[oldman]

3.5, get yourself an extractor socket set at sears and get the bolt out yourself.

 

[yup talon]

i chose fix option #3. this morning i cut the hard oil line coming out of the oil pump. Got a gun on there no problem and it came right off, i fixed that oil leak within 10-15 minutes including draining the oil again. I also tightened up the return line a little. Didnt prime it this time, so starting it up this time was a little rougher. It still started within a second or two, just with a little extra chug. i got it up to temp and let it run for about 6-8 minutes, letting all the PB blaster burn off. It was still smoking when i shut it off, but i had to cause i noticed that i decided to do this project with an almost empty fuel tank. Tomorrow morning ill be taking it in to a shop to get that broken bolt fixed. after that, i'll be test drivinug it to make sure its running right. ive already got my MBC at its lowest, and ill probably keep it there for a few days to be safe.

 

[oldman]

Good deal, do it once and do it right.