Disappointing dyno

[98awdgsx]

I had my '95 awd talon with 6-bolt swap dyno'd the other day. It turned out 260whp and 295ft lbs torque@ 20psi. Mods are as follows: 16g, 3-inch full exhaust no cat, fmic,hks ssqb, intake, fic550 injectors, 255 fuel pump, aeromotive afpr kit, act 2600 clutch, fidanza flywheel, hallman boost controller, brand new factory wires, brand new spark plugs, inovative wideband, and apexi neo afc. Seemed low for mods. I was thinking maybe a problem with the fuel injectors? Was hoping for at least 300 whp plus. Am I being optomistic? Comments from anybody with the same setup or lots of dsm knowledge would be appreciated.

 

[hdoerr]

What are your aif fuel ratios

 

[matt98eclipse]

Before you went to the dyno did you make sure you had no boost leaks?

 

[ove_98 TSI]

i think you need a tune

 

[bastard dsm]

that sounds about right.........your timming map is very weak on the 2g's.
if you had a more aggressive timming map you would have mad more power.

 

[hdoerr]

Which is achieved by properly tuning the AFC Neo you have to those injectors.

 

[bastard dsm]

not really^^^^^^^^

 

[bastarddsm]

what shape is your motor in

 

[mattdev]

What are your aif fuel ratios

Before you went to the dyno did you make sure you had no boost leaks?

Seems a TINY bit low...
What kind of dyno was it (almost all dyno operators claim they will run low or high on different dyno's (not sure which ones)).

Nice TQ numbers however, HP should be in about the same level.

Did you pay for a tuning session, or just a few runs?

 

[hdoerr]

not really^^^^^^^^

Well no you can't make the ECU timing maps more aggressive but by tuning the AFC the timing will become more aggressive do to the way timing is added with lower air flow signals.

 

[bastard dsm]

i know, but 550's arnt big enough to bring timmig up if he had 660's i could see it helping.

 

[hdoerr]

Lets aggree that he needs to get his car tuned and then go from there

 

[MrBoxx]

I hate to say it, but the days of the AFC being a viable tuning tool are becoming numbered. With options like DSMLink, AEM, DSMap, E-manage, etc. I think Apexi is going to have to rethink how they offer tuning tools to turbocharged vehicles. An AFC is fine for tweaking a naturally aspirated car, but for a turbo car bumping up injector sizes like we do, it's just not usable anymore.

As far as specific tuning tips, unless we were really there with you on the dyno, we can't give you much help. Did the dyno operators have any input, or did you just do one run to get a baseline?

 

[JayRolla]

Like he said you need a better tuning tool. I have to run a maf-t just to compensate for my injectors then use the safc for fine tuning the afr. Only way I make good power on the afc is running e85 with huge injectors. Working out pretty good for me.

 

[romeen]

Apparently there is a problem with compatibility of the NEO with our cars. Could be the cause or at least contributing to the less than anticipated numbers.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/304105-apexi-neo-important-info.html

Boost leak tests are always a good idea.

 

[Detective Coating]

I have a few more things done to you and I don't expect to dyno more than 280 or so and I'm using DSMlink. I would be pretty happy with that with what you have done. Maybe you could do a little better tuning with it but honestly with the safc you won't get much more than that.

 

[JusMX141]

A similar thing happened to my close buddy on his first dyno run. '95 Talon TSi AWD, Frank 5 20G, 22psi, 1200cc injectors, FMIC, all supporting mods, half race fuel / half E85, tuning with DSMLink.

On Buschur's dyno, the car bested 296whp. If you calculate his best e.t/mph with the car's weight, he's making over 400 at the crank, and around 360 to the wheels....as expected. So what happened?

On DSMLink, the biggest glitch we found was it was rather hot the day the car was run. There were fans aimed at the intercooler, but the intake air temps were reading 140+* (still running draw-thru 2G MAS so temps are sensed before the intercooler). At those temps, almost 8 degrees of timing was being pulled, taking his 19*-20* of advance down to around 11*. You're not making ANY power with 11* of timing.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Funny that there was a recent thread about expected HP/torque on a 16G. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...ur-hand-if-you-have-made-over-300-hp-16g.html Most people thought that they should get 300WHP easy, but the reality is that a lot of people don't have the knowledge, tools or supporting mods to tune a car to 300WHP from a 16G turbo. Sure some people have made incredible numbers off a 16G, but the average person will never see above around 275ishWHP. Not saying you don't have the above 3 requirement, but I would agree that a good tune will make a world of difference as well as temperatures.

Living down here in Houston I'm a bit back-wards to the guys up north as my car is garaged in the summer and comes out in the winter when ambient temps are low enough to have fun with the car. The summer heat (100+ at times) really kills your timing and power.

 

[bastarddsm]

Op also remember you don't race a dyno...Every dyno will measure differently..Yours may have been reading low. Do remember that 260whp = ~350CHP Thats like 150Hp over stock..thats doin pretty good

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Op also remember you don't race a dyno...Every dyno will measure differently..Yours may have been reading low. Do remember that 260whp = ~350CHP Thats like 150Hp over stock..thats doin pretty good

I would severely hate to find out that I had roughly 25% drive-train loss. More than likely it will be closer to 12-15%.

 

[pboglio]

Boost, tuning, some cams easily could be worth 40 w.h.p.

I've seen as much as 100 crank h.p. difference (DSMlink estimate) in power from my summer street pump gas settings to my winter "race gas" tune.

Until your running 23-24 psi, eliminated ALL boost leaks, run high octane race gas, jacked the timing up to at least 20-21*, leaned the motor out a touch, and installed some cams, you probably won't crack 300 w.h.p. I really wouldn't worry about it, your running about what would be expected.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

If you are honestly caring about what your car makes on a dyno, you shouldn't be tuning a car. A dyno is a relative tuning tool, to make sure you have all your bells and whistles in line before you head to the real measurement of power, the quarter mile. That is the only true test of how much power your car makes (relative to its weight), and how well you can drive it. All dynos are different, as soon as you leave one, the numbers your car made are completely arbitrary.

 

[JayRolla]

To the OP I noticed you said you are running 11.8 afr?? That could cause some knock and timing pull. On pump gas I would not run leaner than 11.1 and I usually shoot for 10.9. That may help a lot.

Main reason the 16g dont hit over 300whp is because it blows hot air and loves to creat detonation. Needs race fuel, e85 or some meth injection to show its potential. The turbo really makes a lot of power at 30psi range even if it is just a spike. I found the higher you spike the turbo the more boost it holds till redline.

 

[T9S1i]

was it a mustang dyno or dynojet or what?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

If you are honestly caring about what your car makes on a dyno, you shouldn't be tuning a car. A dyno is a relative tuning tool, to make sure you have all your bells and whistles in line before you head to the real measurement of power, the quarter mile. That is the only true test of how much power your car makes (relative to its weight), and how well you can drive it. All dynos are different, as soon as you leave one, the numbers your car made are completely arbitrary.

Quoted for the TRUTH. To keep in line with the conversation, 260/295 on a mustang dyno (at least I hope it was) is actually pretty decent. Either way, I think the guys above ^^ have told it how it is, especially boxx saying the SAFC is soon to be sharing the graveyard along with the Talon Digest