weird tuning issues..need help!!!

[talonted_one]

First of all this will probably be a lil lengthy so I appologize in advance.

Im having this weird problem with my car. Between 3kand 4k rpm the car feels like it's falling on its face. There is a hesitation and it also feels like the car wants to move but is being held back.

I suspect the clutch master cylinder or the the clutch its self.

I datalogged a few runs and i see that my initial timing is around 30* when i go to WOT timing falls to as much as 7*.

I'm new to tuning and im lost rigth now. I know that excesive timing retard is a sign of knock, but if i richen things up, I hit fuel cut.

This maybe unrelated but I also noticed that my 14b spools slower in the lower gears i.e. full boost @4k+ rpm. in 1st and 2nd gear even with my exhaust unbolted boost still comes on late.


here is an example of one run in 3rd gear:

rpm timing

4632 31*
4984 8*
5500 10*
6016 13*

EGTs are under 900*c
Boost is at 15 psi.


I need some Ideas. hit me up on the board or on AOL or yahoo sign on's are on my profile


MODS.

all free mods
ported 14b,1G tb,1g intake mani,ported head,5 angle valve job,3" ATR cat back,ACT 2100,ported exh mani,K&N intake,hallman boost controller,Greddy type-S bov,o2 dump,APEXi S-AFC,Blitz duall tt,autometer boost guage,Greddy EGT,custom uip,pocketlogger

please help all criticism is welcomed

 

[candela]

Id like to see your o2 values and exact egt's

Anything under like 15* timing isnt very good tuning at all. Try this...lower the boost to about 12psi. Logg another run and post back up here. It seems like you might be running lean considering you have no fuel mods at all I dont uderstand how someone would get a ported head but not even have a fuel pump You raly should consider getting at leist a fuel pump for the car, if not a FPR and injectors/afc. Id need more info from the logger. Post up intake temp, coolant temp, knock, timing, o2 voltage and what boost your running at then I might be able to help

 

[talonted_one]

ill be sure to log another run first thing tomorrow.

as far as the fuel pump is concerned i have a walbro 255, I was wanting to wait until i get a fpr. I'm still deciding on a spoolin up reg. or an SX. from what I gather 2g's need a regulator after intalling a 255.

lastlty for the loggs...i can get you everything except knock the OBDII cant log it.

thanx

 

[candela]

Huh??? That really sucks that the obdII cant read knock, boy am I glad Im obd1!!! Anyhow, you would still benefit from a fuel pump now een without the reg. Ive been waiting for a regulator for like almost 2 months and I have a 255. 255's will overrun the fpr at low rpm's but will help you a bunch at higher rpms and WOT. You should really consider getting one and doing a rewire while you at it. Theres no waiting on this. Still post you logs with all that I asked and Im sure some Tuners will be able to help you out no problem. Oh and get a 1g fuel rail with a spoolinup reg. I have a 1g fuel rail 4 sale, hit me up,

Austin

 

[talonted_one]

thanx for the offer but i was thinking ahead and already have a 1g fuel rail. we 2g guys have been waiting for the spoolin up reg for a long time now. I was thinking about buying the buschur modded sx regulator you should check it out it seems pretty nice


http://www.buschurracing.com/FPR_large.jpg

 

[44pirate]

What are your HI Throttle settings on your SAFC and what are your RPM ranges set at. Do you have stock injectors. On 2G when your pulling timing it means your running rich. Lean it out you have an EGT guage just don't go over 900c. What are your LO throttle settings on your SAFC and what are your throttle points.

 

[candela]

Dude there aint no way he is running rich.... he has no fuel mods at all, meaning that the same amount of fuel is being injected as it was from the factory (aside from a few psi of fuel pressure for 1-2 psi boost increase) AND he has ported head, ported exh manny/intake manny, intake and exhaust....dont you think he would be a little on the lean side if anything. I know this isnt much mods and boost isnt up very much at all from stock (if any) but if timing is getting pulled its probably do to soomething else rather than running to rich. But pirate is right, you can get it pulled if your running to rich and your egt's are low, so it would be best to post you afc setting as well cause you never know....boy would I feel dumb if he posted his settings and his injectors were at like 100% duty cycle =)

 

[turbo2oh]

I'd try logging a pull from a stop to the top of 3rd if possible. From your log it looks like you went WOT and hit boost between 4600 and 4900 in 3rd, so your timing dropped to 8* then begun to advance. See if this drop in timing is still present in while doing a run from a stop.

 

[talonted_one]

ok here is the lastest log:

I wish I could hotsync to my computer so you guys could see it in graph form but my computer hates my palm.


RPM coolant temp timing

4836 206* 15*
5340 206* 10*
5540 206* 11*
6056 206* 14*
6516 206* 15*
7032 203* 16*


I forgot to log my O2s but I hope this info tells you more than It does me.

 

[talonted_one]

oh almost forgot ..here are my AFC high settings.

1k -8
2k -14
3k -18
4k -14
5k -3
6k +4
7k +7
8k +10

 

[CAMtheMAN]

dude im not a afc goo-roo but your high settings look pretty wack to me, we set my friends in a curve from leaner to richer with the rpms, his worked great like that , his hige setting was 70%, low was 30% throttle. I think that resetting your settings completely might help, un-plug the afc and reset the ecu(unhook battery) . Take it for a spin and retune to the curve like I said above.
thats just what i'd do though.

 

[talonted_one]

i see what you are saying ...but my egts tell me im around in the right bal park.

top of 3rd close to 900*c

 

[talonted_one]

no other comments????

 

[turbo2oh]

was that last log after a run through all the gears? it would definately help to see a bigger piece of the log with o2s

 

[talonted_one]

no that was just a third gear pull.

I just put a walbro 255 and new fuel filter in and it seems like its a lil smoother, but it also seems like theres still a lil hesitation.

I also hit fuel cut again and im now dying on the top end.

I think i need to tweak the AFC some more.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

EGTs are fairly useless. I have seen countless 12 second cars run 13s by tuning for EGT And everone I know running 11s or better doesnt use it at all. Depending on my setup at the time my car would get no knock at 940C or knock like hell at 850C. Cant trust it without logging, which you are at least. With a 2g flowing over 2.1 grams per rev of air (14b should have NO trouble hitting that mark at ~16 psi) the ECU will max timing out at 16 degrees. With larger injecotrs (lower airflow signal to ECU) you can get up to ~25 degrees. With stock injectors 20 degrees is good, below 18 degrees is bad. Try to tune for 20 degrees advance. If your low throttle settings are correct (0% trims roughly) start by copying those settings to hi throttle map, and log carefully at first. By starting like this I can usually have a 2g/AFC tuned in 3-4 third gear pulls O2 is fairly useless as well, but log it every time to determine what is the best O2 on your current setup, and in teh future you can get a very close rough tune by going for that O2 value. Its usually .92-.94 on most 2Gs but your car may be different.

Let me know if you need more...

 

[talonted_one]

Thanx for the reply 95GSXracer, but o be completly honest with you for me to have my DSM fotr this long(all the time spent were for repairs..go figure) and to have as much done to the car, I and just now learning ow to tune the @!&% thing.


The settings on my AFC have been questioned once already in this thread. My buddy did it and he ahs been doing this for a good long time so I trust he knows what he is doing.

As for my low throttle setings there aren't any. I was under the impression that at part throttle the ECU uses the the long and short term fuel trims to constantly up date fuel consumption. So that would make low settings useless for the most part. But hey I could be wrong ...right?

thanx

 

[Kevin Jewer]

On stock injectors (?) you might be able to say that. But even on 450s my low settings werent quite zero. The ECU can adjust, but only so much. The pint of my post was that it is easy to tune lo throttle since the ECU tells you what to do. So use that to your advantage to get a ballpark figure for high throttle settings.

 

[talonted_one]

gotcha