I was thinking of spending my tax return on a AHP FMIC. All that I have done to the car now is the open air filter adapter. I was going to just get the upper and lower intercooler piping and hard intake, but that was a little over $400 and for $750 I can get the front mount that comes with new upper and lower pipes also. I was just wondering if it would be stupid with starting out with the fmic or using the money on something else, like a big t-28?
thanks
bryan

adding a FMIC to a basically stock car will cause a pressure drop which means your turbo will lag in spooling up.. So answer to your question is NO its not a good idea as a first mod. Check out the tuning guide and follow it if you really wanna do things right

http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/

Would money be better spent in a exhaust system? What would you guys do to a stock a/t awd with $350? I have a walbero fuel pump to put in(when the weather get nicer). If I did the fmic, would i be able to turn up the boost, I also have a 1g bov waiting to go on.

Money would be better spent into an exhaust system.

-M

Originally posted by bcrosby
If I did the fmic, would i be able to turn up the boost,

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No. Like Larry said, a FMIC is not a good first upgrade-- there are many other things that you need first before you start thinking front mount. Read the upgrade guide on this site or here.

the exhaust side on any turbo car is the most important.... get that hot nasty air out of there. go turbo back (evo O2 housing) then 3" DP into cat-back (minus the cat). later on, you can port the head, exhaust manifold & turbo housing. you could also go with an intake (K&N, 3" pipe) UICP, BOV and a 1G intake mani (junkyard) to cool the air, and a MBC and a boost gauge. have fun... you'll never run out of things to modify though you may run out of money (or credit card :raises hand: )

Adam

why do people refuse to read tuning guides?? They were written for a reason, personally I followed this one..

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2gupgradepath.htm

You cant go wrong following it..

Oh, ive read all of the tuning guides, but who says you have to follow a guide, Ive always wanted a fmic but thinking maybe starting off with exhuast and o2 housing.

Originally posted by bcrosby
who says you have to follow a guide

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Well the guides are there for a reason-- they work. You can do what you want, of course, but you're only hurting yourself. If you only want a FMIC so you can look cool, you're not a true DSMer and should get rid of your car as soon as you can and buy a Civic.

i think you should go a head and get that fmic cooler so you can look fast and put in the fuel pump and run 25psi since you don't care that the tuning page is there to help you u should blow your engine to realize why it is there m2c stuff like this makes me

FMIC is a terrible first upgrade. You're first upgrade should be a boost gauge. There are tons and I mean TONS of tuning guides out there for your use.

Hmm... I don't think I agree with you guys.

Firstly, your guide is based on one permutation order of purchases. While most of the time, you want to get the upgraded turbo last, there are just too many variations that can be applied to your guide's order that would be fine too. I wouldn't go by your guide simply because of tastes. I like to have my gauges first yet your guide indicates exhaust first. In this scenario, it doesn't matter which one is first.

Getting a front-mount intercooler first may not be the ideal first pick when taking the mod road, but it certainly wouldn't affect the car in any negative way (just as exhaust wouldn't).

Just my 2 cents...

-M

thanks phoenyx, finally someone whos not calling me a idiot for seeing if there are other options than the "guide". I am on my 3rd turbo dsm, and have read many different upgrade guides and was just looking to start off with a big purchase since I have a big tax refund coming. But I think now im going with a o2 housing and d/pipe.

Getting a front-mount intercooler first may not be the ideal first pick when taking the mod road, but it certainly wouldn't affect the car in any negative way (just as exhaust wouldn't).

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this is where you are wrong...even though it won't destroy your engine it will hurt performance.

I think its a good idea. I find it easier to buy the most expensive parts first, and upgrading everything just once. The first two things on my car were a turbo and a built motor and i'm very glad i did it that way. I also have an IC and will have a VPC and 550s BEFORE i replace my stock catback.

One general rule of thumb is to start far away from the motor and work your way to the inside. For example, intake, exhaust then move into turbo, IC, manifolds, and eventually move inside the motor. Granted you can't take this philosophy literally, it still works for most cases. Doing an fmic first may not be ideal, but you certainly won't damage anything. If it is the only mod you are planning on doing (yeah right then I would suggest you spend it elsewhere. But if you are planning on making substantially more power down the road it couldn't hurt to get the supporting equipment now.

Originally posted by talonted_one


this is where you are wrong...even though it won't destroy your engine it will hurt performance.

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Upgrading to a FMIC will in *no* way hurt performance. If anything, it will increase reliabilty to the car. You are just installing a wider diameter pipes and a bigger core to the car. Sure, you will get a pressure drop, but you'll get cooler charged air. And as always, increasing the boost, will give you back your lost boost pressure.

-M

How can you say it will not affect the cars performance? Running a large FMIC on a T25 will cause alot of pressure drop.. The benefits of the cooler charge will come no where near the draw back of the pressure drop. The car will become laggy and less responsive. Sure sounds like a great first mod.

Im not saying you have to follow the tuning guide step for step, but it has a logic to it.

There was a guy on DSMTalk (BigBadGSX I think) who was still on the T-25 before his engine blew up, and he ran a 13.6 w/ an Apexi FMIC. If it hurt performance so bad...I guess he couldn't have one of the fastest T-25 times. BTW, that is with no boost control.

no boost control my ass.. so your going to tell me he ran a 13.5 on 12lbs of boost? RIGHT.. If you believe that I have a piece of water front property to sell you CHEAP..

I didnt say a FMIC was a bad idea for a T25 all together, I said its a bad idea for a stock car with a T25.. Once you do everything else Im sure the FMIC will help out a bit, but thats because your making more boost and making more power.

Just because he didn't have a boost controller, doesn't mean he ran 12 pounds of boost. Modifications DO add boost you know. Oh and here is his signature from DSMTalk...


97 GSX (6bolt swap underway)
CURRENT MODDS:
GREDDY TYPE S
APEXI fmic
APEXI DUNK EXHAUST
APEXI 3in DP no cat
APEXI AFC
Act2600
K&N, hacked dump tube
Pirelli P7000's
EIBACH SPORTLINES
WALBRO 255
B&M FPR
AUTO METER BOOST, AIR TO FUEL TRIPPLE PILLAR POD
best time to date on the t25 no boost control and stock side mount: 13.8@96mph **13.7@97after fmic**

Originally posted by larryd
How can you say it will not affect the cars performance? Running a large FMIC on a T25 will cause alot of pressure drop.. The benefits of the cooler charge will come no where near the draw back of the pressure drop. The car will become laggy and less responsive. Sure sounds like a great first mod.

Im not saying you have to follow the tuning guide step for step, but it has a logic to it.

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The car will not become laggy. Since the turbo is small, it will still spool up the same. It may take more time to travel from the turbo to the intake manifold, but that shouldn't be noticeable. If anything, having a FMIC with a larger turbo will definitely make the car more "laggy".

Like I said, the pressure drop can be adjusted for by merely turning up the boost.

-M

Originally posted by larryd
no boost control my ass.. so your going to tell me he ran a 13.5 on 12lbs of boost? RIGHT.. If you believe that I have a piece of water front property to sell you CHEAP..

I didnt say a FMIC was a bad idea for a T25 all together, I said its a bad idea for a stock car with a T25.. Once you do everything else Im sure the FMIC will help out a bit, but thats because your making more boost and making more power.

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FMIC are reliablity mods. They can be placed on the car in any order you choose. By the mere fact that a larger intercooler core makes a cooler charge should be enough.

Let me ask you this: Will it be ok if he changed his upper/lower IC pipes to all 2.5"? If that answer is yes, then what makes getting a larger core so detrimental? The FMIC or SMIC upgrade has larger pipes and a larger core....To me, its a part of the intake upgrade process besides getting a K&N cone filter..It just won't make large HP gains right away like boost/exhaust will..


-M

Im just going to have to agree to disagree with you guys because I could argue this point all night long and its honestly not worth it. You want to do an intercooler first, go ahead..

Regarding the guy who ran 13.7 on his T25.. I give him props.. Thats good driving. He must have had one hell of a launch to pull that time off running reliatively stock boost.

LarryD,

Not trying to reign on your parade here dude.

Knowing in-depth details about the parts of the car and what they do can lead you to some better understanding of the "order" of upgrades. Almost everyone doesn't follow one specific order to upgrades. Sure, there are some out-of-order upgrades that cost people several thousand dollars (i.e. I spent a small fortune recovering a blown rotor engine after letting some shop install a Haltech in my RX7 right after I got exhaust..., but most of the time the first couple of upgrades won't hurt (unless you buy a turbo first).

What is odd about our friend that craves a FMIC is the fact that its a fairly expensive upgrade for such a small amount of power increase (initially anyway). Most initial upgrades can yield far more HP for far les...in saying that - I'd agree with you 100% - why spend $1000+ dollars for 10+HP or so, when you can take that $1000 and get a boost controller, exhaust system, and intake cone and get 40-50HP and still maintain engine reliability?



-M