ok, so I don't have a GST nor a GSX. But I still love my ride for the look and the handling, even power compare to non-vtec hondas. I want more power for my ride ~200 is good enough. But as you all know my problem is South Cal Also want it to be turbo ready for turbo ~2-3 years from now, even now if I find a way to get around with smog inspection
for life

well im not really sure what the law in california i but. rebuild the block or get a rebuilt stroker from howell. u should see 200hp or more

Rebuild the block first and maybe the head. I'm wondering if I can turbo using the 10.5:1 kit from Howell running ~12psi. I'll be happy.

2 totally diffrent thing.if you want to putout 200 hp n/a you wont be able to just put on a turbo kit 2-3 years from now.tuning for that power n/a is totally different from putting on a turbo later on.depending on what you have to do to the motor to get 200hp and what you have to do to put on a turbo is different too.i have the same problem with my choices.i want to stay n/a but i want turbo for the 500hp i can get.figure out which you want to go with and go from there.me in staying n/a


that idea wont work because of the compression ratio

its not workin

I'd love to stay N/A if 200 is possible. I just don't think having a stroker kit will bring me up that high. Stroker means longer strokes right, means my RPM will drop.

Turbo from HRC is my other choice if 200 N/A is not possible. I'll see bout getting 8.5 or 9.5 for my blocks from Howell. I don't want to slap the turbo on until after smog, gotta do it this year in June don't want to take it off after couple months.

Well, I'm hoping to stay N/A, still collecting ideas from different people who have gotten their cars there without Turbo.

this is very possible.200hp n/a is hard to reach but not as hard as say 300hp.200hp you should still be able to use pump gas.i dont know about 2gs but the 1g 4g63 can do it.which motor do you have.you also have fwd correct.most people wil tell you that if you want big horsepower numbers to go turbo.im in the process of peicing together my n/a motor and i have basically the same goals.i would like to get 200whp on pump gas n/a.i have fwd so i think going higher than that with the power will make it tricky to hook up the front tires.i want to be quick but be able to drive it.i dont wanna just spin tires.in the future im going to swap over to a turbo motor but thats after i build my n/a motor.i saw in your wishlist that youd like to use a hahn stage 2 kit.theres a couple of poeple on this site that have it and are making some good power.but if you want to stay n/a its going to be tricky with tuning and such to find the power.


as ar as the stroker kit it increases the stroke of the piston.with a crank and bigger rods it moves the piston a little bit more during the stroke.stroker kits have been made for hese motors putting them from 2.0L to 2.3 or 2.4.but youll need a thicker head gaket and take into consideration that with the increased stroke youll have to watch clearences of the piston to valves and such.look around youll fid what your looking for.

is my motor! I knew my best power gain is using HRC kit, I like it only I still don't have my "overlook" smog inspection hookup yet. I'm not very interested in stroker kit. Just wanted to see how many other options are there to get 200 without turbo, otherwise I'll build up my bottom end for this year smog and go turbo after that to give myself 2 years.

I guess no one can safely go up to 9:1 - 10:1 for turbo hungry for power even though im not a ricer, just like to race with myself in da dark coming home from work.

Bore the block, port and polish on the heads and you will be at or over 200HP depending on the quality of the job. Its not that hard to increase HP. Its just the comparison of cost for bore work vs turbos lands most people in the turbo area. And don't forget, you still got a throttle body waiting to be replaced, high quality pistons,valves,cams,crankshaft,fuel enjectors,etc,waiting to be put in. And not to mention a 3 inch full exaust,CAIS, and polished headers. Grade A work with all those mentioned...you will be close to 280 or more still on pump gas. But hey,professionally done, you're also looking at close to $6000 of work compared to a turbo upgrade of about $3200. But thats the price for NA!
Cali has a law for almost everything man, damn.

i've been working my #'s for awhile. 200hp is not just possible, it is actually fairly easy, as well as cost effective. basic things req: 10.5 comp pistons, .020 copper head gasket ( actual compression ratio, 10.92), forged rods, fully ported and polished head and intake, 2mm's larger valves, crowler street strip cams( .402 lift) and the fuel system to back it up ( big injectors, high flow fuel pump, larger T.B.) running these exact #'s and parts on desk top dyno, i got 211H.P., and 215lbs of torque. the powerband is beautiful....3800rpms to 7300rpms. max torque is at 4000rpms , max h.p. is at 6800rpms. the price of all involved parts came to $2,850.00 and some change.

hey was just browsing the 2gnt forums and i found some power stages for n/a eclipse i dont think it'll be hard to bring up an n/a to 200 infact im sure you can build it to be even higher you just have to pay more but to me i think its more challenging to upgrade an n/a plus im planing to keep my car for a long time then buying a gsx when it dies but for now moding n/a all the way. i dont know if the stages listed on 2gnt are accurate cus i dont agree with some of them but they help. also after doing those stages you can research about tweeking the ecu i got this one shop on the DL that can tweek up your ecu and can add gains up to 50 HP they got an stock evolutin 280 hp to 340 hp after tweeking the ecu whcihc is a great gain for a turbo charged car having no mods... the evos still runing strong, infact my friend got into an accident already, few tickets and a court date haha.

http://www.2gnt.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=51

heres a layout of my mods i would do in order to any n/a motor


intake
exhaust
header
test pipe
pulleys
cam gears
tb mods(if needed)
injectors
cams
head work
up comperssion
then ecu mods



as far as ecu goes just use a safc or liek a emanage to tweak till standalone is needed. you wont need standalone till your fully built form top to bottom and need to tweak that much stuff. n/a itll; be hard to get to the point half the all motor class is in without mad funds

200 hp on a 420a is shooting a weeee bit high. look at other 4 bangers. the only other motor that i've seen that has over 200 hp is the f20 that honda makes (its in the s2000). and in that car has gone MILLIONS of dollars of research just to get the motor to have 240 HP to the flywheel. all motor, nothing else. a 420a puts 110 to the flywheel stock. no matter what you do, there's not much you can do to gain 90 hp to the wheels. come out of dreamland and do some searching on 2gnt because 200 hp (a 14 second all motor 420a eclipse) is about saying that your 2g 4g63 won't crankwalk....

bore, higher compression pistons, port/polish head, gasket match intake mani., header, intake, cams if u can find some that'll be good in n/a, gm maf w/ translator, light flywheel, balanced&blueprinted bottom end. That'll get you into 190-210 w/ proper tuning.

why does everyone think they need to port and polish the head on a n/a motor. the best thing you can do to a n/a head is a comp valve job and 1mm oversized valves with stock sized ports. the velocity through the ports will be kept and flow to full potential.

i talked to a few people from shops ect, and they fully agreed.

making 200 hp n/a is going to cost you more than throwing a turbo kit on it in the first place.

orginally posted by DUSTYB: a 420a puts 110 to the flywheel stock. no matter what you do, there's not much you can do to gain 90 hp to the wheels. come out of dreamland and do some searching on 2gnt because 200 hp (a 14 second all motor 420a eclipse) is about saying that your 2g 4g63 won't crankwalk....

Click to expand...

Are you serious? this is the most uneducated, unfounded, rediculously stupid post I've seen in a while. Do some research man the 420a puts out about 150 at the flywheel, were the hell did you get the hp rating of 110? Having you been reading too many honda tuning magazines? I mean seriously if you're gonna flame someone at least do some research first.

And btw 200hp from the 420a is very easy to attain with some time and tuning, I'd say you can do it for about $2000 if you do the work yourself.

GotSome-Turbo said:

Are you serious? this is the most uneducated, unfounded, rediculously stupid post I've seen in a while. Do some research man the 420a puts out about 150 at the flywheel, were the hell did you get the hp rating of 110? Having you been reading too many honda tuning magazines? I mean seriously if you're gonna flame someone at least do some research first.

And btw 200hp from the 420a is very easy to attain with some time and tuning, I'd say you can do it for about $2000 if you do the work yourself.

Click to expand...

Yeah the 110 horse is to the wheels, we have 140 horse at the flywheel.(whoopie)
And I agree with gotsome, it's goning to take cash and time to reach 200. Good luck

Glad to see there are still some optimists out there who think they can hit 200hp NA without increasing displacement. Not going to happen and be very streetable at all. Pretty sure the most powerful dyno slip anyone's seen from a 2.0 420A NA is about 180hp crank.

It is NOT going to be easy, and it's CERTAINLY NOT going to be inexpensive unless you own your own machine shop or "borrow" performance parts from parked cars in the night. 200hp NA is going to cost you more than a turbo kit. I'd guess ~$4000-5000 if done right.

I'm looking to both be the first into the 14s and closest to 200hp this spring once she goes back together. Not really changing my setup much. Still staying 10.5:1 CR (which, I might add is okay to boost - you just have to know what you're doing and you are going to see more and more 2GNTers running higher CR with boost in the future), still sticking with Crower 2 cams and all that. Basically, the only difference between my all motor build and my turbo build this summer will be the exhaust manifold, the size of the fuel injectors, and some new fuel and spark maps in my Megasquirt.

To make more power (at the cost of some streetability - remains to be seen), I would step up from Crower 2 to 3 cams and possibly up the CR to around 11.0:1. Going much higher with that will result in knock issues. 12.5:1CR has been known to knock at idle on race gas.

Never give up pushing the limits, though. It's what keeps this car going!

Well look in the bright side. If money was no issue. Then getting it 200 N/A is possible . Then if you go turbo the engine can handle it and thus having potential for great power.Meaning 200hp strong enigne then slap a turbo to give you the 200 extra or whatever u need. and you can have a nice decent amount of power. Dont forget people replacing and upgrading an engine is cool and all just DONT FORGET BRAKES AND CLUTCH. Also they main problem is heat and wear lets allthank thermal dynamics. So in conclusion if money was not an issue it is very possible to get a 4 banger to the 400's just lots of money time and very important key keeping the engine cool or you will crack block or what not. As for the s2000 yes you have a point just your forgetting key points. Oneis lots of reserchwas invested to get up there but they had to take into consideration smog safety long lasting car and smoothness and be efficient. #1 key to al stock cars is efficency. They dont take consideration to the young crowd or race fans. If they did they would be making car like they use to back in the day with 400 horses stock but pulluting the world like there not tmorow and were not efficeint wasting lots of gas.
Source for all this info and knowledge
Florida Institute of Technology
my major
Theoritical Physics
Cal Tech

dr1665 said:

Glad to see there are still some optimists out there who think they can hit 200hp NA without increasing displacement. Not going to happen and be very streetable at all. Pretty sure the most powerful dyno slip anyone's seen from a 2.0 420A NA is about 180hp crank.

Click to expand...

haha my thoughts exactly. Im so sick of seeing a list of mods, and then stating what hp level it will get you to, when that level is about double the gain that you will actually see. there is nothing saying that a whole list of stuff is gonna get you exactly X amount of horsepower. these cars are gonna be slow in NA form, so do some sort of forced induction if you want to be quick. hell im not even sure if i would break 200whp, although i would hope so, but you never know.

and then i see a gm maf translator thrown in a list of mods :laugh: i guess it hasn't clicked yet that:

2gnt forum = 2gnt(420a) discussions
1gnt forum = 1gnt(4g63 na) discussions...

i have high hopes that that idea will click soon enough...

GSGoinFast said:

what do0d said...

Click to expand...

I'm buying you a beer or two this August. I better see that red DSM in the caravan out of Chicago...

GotSome-Turbo said:

Are you serious? this is the most uneducated, unfounded, rediculously stupid post I've seen in a while. Do some research man the 420a puts out about 150 at the flywheel, were the hell did you get the hp rating of 110? Having you been reading too many honda tuning magazines? I mean seriously if you're gonna flame someone at least do some research first.

And btw 200hp from the 420a is very easy to attain with some time and tuning, I'd say you can do it for about $2000 if you do the work yourself.

Click to expand...

and he was right with 110 at the wheels and 140 flywheel hp. next time you critasize someones reply and you give false info, get the link to where you saw it.

here is link to back up his info

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/

dr1665 said:

I'm buying you a beer or two this August. I better see that red DSM in the caravan out of Chicago...

Click to expand...

oh shit i forgot about that... i never booked a hotel... eh maybe i can bum it in the "E" for a couple nights, you think the hotel would mind? i dunno ill have to see what happens... i have a feeling i might have to sleep in the "E" cuz that money might be needed to go towards the turbo... haha but keep me updated on whats gonna go down. later man

I'd just like to apologize if I came across as an @ss. Yesterday was a bad day, found my turbo kit is gonna take another week to week and a half to get here So again if I offended anyone with my comments I do apologize, but I do beleive 200hp is attainable if you shop around you could probably do it for a reasonable price, that's if you do the work yourself.just my 2 cents, I know others will disagree.