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50 trim not that fast. please bring some ideas.

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97gstnick

97gstnick

15+ Year Contributor
412
2
Mar 21, 2004
Peoria, Arizona
ok, i have a question that is not real serious but i was just wonderin. i finally got my car running good after a 6 month long train of problems. i have a 50 trim and on 19-20 ish psi the car is quick but not that quick. i got beat by an srt-4 that has exhaust and running 19 ish psi. (i thought i would mention that race to give you an idea of what kinda acceleration i have.) now with that being said.... anybody have any idea why it wouldnt be that fast? oh yea, im on stock clutch and its not slipping. im not making enough power to blow the stock clutch! i guess i find that weird. and one thing i think it might be is i have a crappy battery, maybe its a stupid theory... but i thought i would throw it in... but anyways, if any wisemen can throw in some ideas, i'd really appreciate it.

thanks again guys
 
Are you getting traction? I raced a SRT 4 on 19 psi w/ gutted cat, and all else stock. He didn't have any of the traction issues I had. I could hardly keep w/ him through 2nd. Once I hit 3rd I walked him though, this was w/out the slicks, and NOT (wink wink) on the street.

Also, tuning is HUGE!
 
first of all if you lose to an srt-4 and you have a 50 trim with supporting mods than either you or your car sucks.... I have a 50 trim on a 2g awd and even from a roll srt-4's with stock turbos have no chance... and if you run 13's with a 50 trim than some thing is wrong..many people with 14b's awd and fwd 1st and 2nd gen can run that same time....just fiqure out what is wrong with your motor or the turbo it's self but it being a 50 trim is not the problem
 
A good tune will bring you more power than just slapping on a bigger turbo and hoping for more power. It seems as if you have the supporting mods for your turbo. I think the most effective thing you could do is hop on a dyno and tune it and fine tune everything for more power. :cool:
 
yes, i had traction and no i dont suck at driving. my car has something holding it back or somethin. im guessing ignition. but i dont know yet. dont get my wrong, the car pulls hard, but just not enough. its weird. and yes, my tune is pretty good.
 
Wow. I am F U C King (escuse my french but its really starting to piss me off) sick and tired of hear "your car should be faster" BS. You have AWD, I do not, I have NO LSD, and no setup of stiff suspension in the rear, so my car squats horribly, which hurts traction. Even w/ slicks I can only manage 1.9-2.0 60's right now. Not 1.7's like you AWD guys. I can spin the tires on the highway at 70mph. When my turbo hits, it hits hard, and pulls all the way to redline. Whereas the srt turbo pulls hard down low then falls of, so he doesn't spin all the way through. I am sick of getting PM's all day long about "Your car should be faster, this and that", and "I did this w/ only this mods BUT on AWD.", ETC, ETC. Stop it, Im sick of it. Try stepping into my car and controlling its torque steer and running it straigt down the track while trying to get a decent launch. On top of that I still to this day have a Horrible tune on my car. I can't hold decent boost to get a good tune on, which is why I am going external this winter.

So please, stop telling me my car is not fast or should be faster. Maybe you could do better then me, well thats great, I don't care its my car, not yours. When I get my high 11 sec timeslip next season I will post it for you all to see.

However, unlike you AWD guys, I love my trap speeds. Besides, w/ a FWD, trap speeds are more important any day rather than ET's. I give mad props to FWD guys that run high 12's or low 13's at 115mph or higher. Thats insane of a trap for that ET. If he could hook up thats easily a low 12 sec run.
 
I'd say check for boost leaks, base timing, base fuel pressure, and try and get a better tune. You might also want to check your idle vacuum. Just my 2cents.
 
project_tsi said:
Wow. I am F U C King (escuse my french but its really starting to piss me off) sick and tired of hear "your car should be faster" BS. You have AWD, I do not, I have NO LSD, and no setup of stiff suspension in the rear, so my car squats horribly, which hurts traction. Even w/ slicks I can only manage 1.9-2.0 60's right now. Not 1.7's like you AWD guys. I can spin the tires on the highway at 70mph. When my turbo hits, it hits hard, and pulls all the way to redline. Whereas the srt turbo pulls hard down low then falls of, so he doesn't spin all the way through. I am sick of getting PM's all day long about "Your car should be faster, this and that", and "I did this w/ only this mods BUT on AWD.", ETC, ETC. Stop it, Im sick of it. Try stepping into my car and controlling its torque steer and running it straigt down the track while trying to get a decent launch. On top of that I still to this day have a Horrible tune on my car. I can't hold decent boost to get a good tune on, which is why I am going external this winter.

So please, stop telling me my car is not fast or should be faster. Maybe you could do better then me, well thats great, I don't care its my car, not yours. When I get my high 11 sec timeslip next season I will post it for you all to see.

However, unlike you AWD guys, I love my trap speeds. Besides, w/ a FWD, trap speeds are more important any day rather than ET's. I give mad props to FWD guys that run high 12's or low 13's at 115mph or higher. Thats insane of a trap for that ET. If he could hook up thats easily a low 12 sec run.
Click to expand...

my sentiments are with you brotha man.. i trap at 106 (that's with the worst 60ft you could hope for, 3.02 ROFL ) and I have every confidence in the world that my car would stand up to 12 second car on the road.

back to the topic at hand, something is horribly wrong here. Either your tune or your motor. I would do the rudimentary and do your boost leak, compression test, leakdown, ignition, fuel etc. I'm willing to bet that you have a serious boost leak somewhere..

oh btw, I walked an SRT4 at 16 psi on my 50 trim (and we all know how shitty that feels :D ) so have faith and fix your problem!
 
blcknspo0ln said:
my sentiments are with you brotha man.. i trap at 106 (that's with the worst 60ft you could hope for, 3.02 ROFL ) and I have every confidence in the world that my car would stand up to 12 second car on the road.

back to the topic at hand, something is horribly wrong here. Either your tune or your motor. I would do the rudimentary and do your boost leak, compression test, leakdown, ignition, fuel etc. I'm willing to bet that you have a serious boost leak somewhere..

oh btw, I walked an SRT4 at 16 psi on my 50 trim (and we all know how shitty that feels :D ) so have faith and fix your problem!
Click to expand...

thank you for the encouraging words. i will definitely take care of a boost leak test hopefully this weekend. and how else could i check ignition? i have 16-17 at idle. and what do you guys recommend for fuel pressure at idle? with vaccuum line connected...
 
blcknspo0ln said:
my sentiments are with you brotha man.. i trap at 106 (that's with the worst 60ft you could hope for, 3.02 ROFL ) and I have every confidence in the world that my car would stand up to 12 second car on the road.
Click to expand...
You trapped 106 w/ a 3 sec 60'? Damn thats impressive. You obviously have a good tune going for you right now. Once you get full traction its balls to the walls for you. I was trapping 110 w/ a 2.0 60' and a 13.0 ET. Thats only 4mph faster than you! Props to you man for sure. You know 1/10th off a 60' is equal to 2 to 3/10's off your ET? You easily have a 12 sec car if you drop a sec off your 60's. Good work guy!
 
97gstnick said:
who knows.... maybe the 3 inch intercooler piping? LOL. not sure if that really would be the case though.
Click to expand...


3" intercooler piping would take longer to fill its volume with air than say a 2.5" pipe. Do you have any kind of logging software? I would get some logs to look at and see what all is going on and move on from there.
 
Im running the same turbo as you but internaly gated.

and under 18 psi my car is a total dog but at 20 it come on like a small block V-8!

I put some silicon sealant around the compressor housing (ive heard they leak alittle bit)

and ive had no problems.

just have patience and check and tweek one thing at a time and drive and check again.
 
One of my much more less impressive runs got me a 14.1...at 109 mph. :( Now that's FWD for you- all top end, less weight, but not a damn thing havin to do with traction off the line. LOL :thumb:
 
RU2SLOW? said:
One of my much more less impressive runs got me a 14.1...at 109 mph. :( Now that's FWD for you- all top end, less weight, but not a damn thing havin to do with traction off the line. LOL :thumb:
Click to expand...
Trap speeds are FAR more important in a FWD than ET's. Good job on the 109. I was only trapping 106 w/ my 14.1sec run!
 
Thanks man- this was my first season at the track and it's been a learning experience and a half...with alot more learnin to do. I agree with you 100% about traps- I'd love to break into the 11s one day- but who wouldn't. My realistic goal is to hit 112 mph traps- now that's somethin worth shootin for in my opinion.

To stick with the original question...I agree with everyone whose posted already aside from the guy talkin about how FWD 14bs are runnin 12s and your car sucks if you can't with a 50 trim. I'll give you my car for an afternoon and let's see you run anything close to a 12...you see the thing that alot of people just don't get is the more power you're making to the wheels the more difficult racing the car becomes with FWD- and that's from the lights to the 60 ft all the way to the traps. Someday you'll get a clue, until you do just learn how to be a little more respectful to other people when addressing issues you have no knowledge of. Thanks :cool:

Oh and 97gstnick- PM me about your setup. If you don't mind I'd like to ask you about a few things from what I read in your profile.
 
gstnick, what are you using to tune(i didnt see anything in your profile about tuner)?

i too was unimpressed with my e16g, i thought i was doing 20psi, and no matter what i was tuned really good on my safc2. i decided that i needed to be able to better fine tune the car, and got dsmlink.

with a simple log post, the guys on the dsmlink forums found my boost gauge was off, and i was only running 14ish psi, and that my source of knock(which is why it felt crappy up top, it was pulling major timing) was due to low mas numbers. after getting a new boost gauge( and a gm 3bar map to boot) and getting my airflow numbers all matched up, holy ####ing shit did that make a difference. i was at 44lbs/min of airflow, on a 3rd gear pull when 20psi hit at 3400rpm it spun the fronts and almost torque steered me into a tree, and that was only running the global settings of the injectors zeroed out with timing zeroed out, i hadnt even began to fine tune things.

im not saying you need dsmlink, but it was able to show me things that i never even knew existed with the standard safc/palm logger combo.
 
i had same problem when i upgraded turbo with evo III setup with all supporting mods. my friend with 3" down pipe and all stock would leave me by like 2 cars. i didnt have it tuned. then took it for some tuning. raced him again big diffrence left him by 4 cars. easily. i have fmic,safc, 550, magnus intake manifold, full catback,fuel pump,. i love the spool up at 21 psi. awesome
 
Just an idea that just crossed my mind. A local DSMer around here who is pretty highly respected once told me that he would never go with a Turbonetics 50 trim because their turbine setups are much less efficient than comparable Garret ones. He went on to tell me that from his experience for some reason, T-netics turbos never make as much power as their Garret counterparts on DSMs. I entertained his opinion for a while, and I'm still not really sure exactly what to make of it. But completely un-backed opinion or not I thought this personal experience was interesting enough to bring to light in this thread being that the person who started the thread is running an AGP T-netics hybrid turbo. Any thoughts from the turbo gurus around here???
 
RU2SLOW? said:
Just an idea that just crossed my mind. A local DSMer around here who is pretty highly respected once told me that he would never go with a Turbonetics 50 trim because their turbine setups are much less efficient than comparable Garret ones. He went on to tell me that from his experience for some reason, T-netics turbos never make as much power as their Garret counterparts on DSMs. I entertained his opinion for a while, and I'm still not really sure exactly what to make of it. But completely un-backed opinion or not I thought this personal experience was interesting enough to bring to light in this thread being that the person who started the thread is running an AGP T-netics hybrid turbo. Any thoughts from the turbo gurus around here???
Click to expand...


something to chew on..I believe it had to do with some coming with a 270* thrust bearing versus a 360* thrust bearing..

project tsi - my correction.. i ran a 104.31 trap with a 3.072 60ft.. LOL the 106.65 was with a 2.823 60ft.. ROFL bear with me, it was my first day at the track and it was COOOLD out. I can't wait for some heat to set in next spring :sneaky:

also, to add to the discussion.. it has come to my attention that the bolton housings are closer to the .48AR side rather than the .63AR that I believed it was.. this may add to the dismay that most (including myself) DSMers are assuming.. and perhaps that is why the t3 guys are running much better dyno numbers than the rest of us..
 
project_tsi said:
Wow. I am F U C King (escuse my french but its really starting to piss me off) sick and tired of hear "your car should be faster" BS. You have AWD, I do not, I have NO LSD, and no setup of stiff suspension in the rear, so my car squats horribly, which hurts traction. Even w/ slicks I can only manage 1.9-2.0 60's right now. Not 1.7's like you AWD guys. I can spin the tires on the highway at 70mph. When my turbo hits, it hits hard, and pulls all the way to redline. Whereas the srt turbo pulls hard down low then falls of, so he doesn't spin all the way through. I am sick of getting PM's all day long about "Your car should be faster, this and that", and "I did this w/ only this mods BUT on AWD.", ETC, ETC. Stop it, Im sick of it. Try stepping into my car and controlling its torque steer and running it straigt down the track while trying to get a decent launch. On top of that I still to this day have a Horrible tune on my car. I can't hold decent boost to get a good tune on, which is why I am going external this winter.

So please, stop telling me my car is not fast or should be faster. Maybe you could do better then me, well thats great, I don't care its my car, not yours. When I get my high 11 sec timeslip next season I will post it for you all to see.

However, unlike you AWD guys, I love my trap speeds. Besides, w/ a FWD, trap speeds are more important any day rather than ET's. I give mad props to FWD guys that run high 12's or low 13's at 115mph or higher. Thats insane of a trap for that ET. If he could hook up thats easily a low 12 sec run.
Click to expand...

Do you have any logs? Wondering what your timing is at redline. Any airflow numbers? What's your air fuel ratio? Is your 255 rewired?

If your sure your getting enough fuel and timing is ok, I'd say try a couple more PSI too. I guess the HG can hold about 24-25psi if your not knocking much.

I run 20psi on the EVOIII even if I don't want too (boost creep LOL ):p
 
project_tsi said:
Wow. I am F U C King (escuse my french but its really starting to piss me off) sick and tired of hear "your car should be faster" BS. You have AWD, I do not, I have NO LSD, and no setup of stiff suspension in the rear, so my car squats horribly, which hurts traction. Even w/ slicks I can only manage 1.9-2.0 60's right now. Not 1.7's like you AWD guys. I can spin the tires on the highway at 70mph. When my turbo hits, it hits hard, and pulls all the way to redline. Whereas the srt turbo pulls hard down low then falls of, so he doesn't spin all the way through. I am sick of getting PM's all day long about "Your car should be faster, this and that", and "I did this w/ only this mods BUT on AWD.", ETC, ETC. Stop it, Im sick of it. Try stepping into my car and controlling its torque steer and running it straigt down the track while trying to get a decent launch. On top of that I still to this day have a Horrible tune on my car. I can't hold decent boost to get a good tune on, which is why I am going external this winter.

So please, stop telling me my car is not fast or should be faster. Maybe you could do better then me, well thats great, I don't care its my car, not yours. When I get my high 11 sec timeslip next season I will post it for you all to see.

However, unlike you AWD guys, I love my trap speeds. Besides, w/ a FWD, trap speeds are more important any day rather than ET's. I give mad props to FWD guys that run high 12's or low 13's at 115mph or higher. Thats insane of a trap for that ET. If he could hook up thats easily a low 12 sec run.
Click to expand...

umm i dont think anyone in this thread was knocking down FWD's. so take youre fwd loving butt to another fwd bashing thread, cause this thread is about trying to figure out why his car feels so slow, and nobody brought up fwd as a factor of that.
 
alcali247 said:
first of all if you lose to an srt-4 and you have a 50 trim with supporting mods than either you or your car sucks.... I have a 50 trim on a 2g awd and even from a roll srt-4's with stock turbos have no chance... and if you run 13's with a 50 trim than some thing is wrong..many people with 14b's awd and fwd 1st and 2nd gen can run that same time....just fiqure out what is wrong with your motor or the turbo it's self but it being a 50 trim is not the problem
Click to expand...

I think he was referring to this post. and since my first track day.. I can fully understand what it takes to get a FWD into 12's.. and it's gonna be a loooong road
 
Thomas91169 said:
umm i dont think anyone in this thread was knocking down FWD's. so take youre fwd loving butt to another fwd bashing thread, cause this thread is about trying to figure out why his car feels so slow, and nobody brought up fwd as a factor of that.
Click to expand...
Umm, I was reffering to the post by alcali247. I'm sorry but I am pissed w/ people telling me these things right now. Do you know how many PM's I have sitting in my mailbox all saying someting like' "Your car should be faster", or "my AWD went this ET w/ only half the mods you have"? I have at least half a dozen, and I'm getting sick of it. No. obviously I'm not the best driver here either, but w/ the condition that my car was in, you couldn't have done much better. Do you know bad it feels to not floor your car completely down the track, witch is what I need to do to run a better time. If I floor it all the way I will boost creep to 28psi or more, thus I start to run lean, start to pull timing and start to knock! By me feathering the gas it doesn't do these things but I loose a bit of speed and ET too.

I can provide logs for you, although I'm not going to b/c none of them are worth reviewing. I know what needs to be done to the car and I am doing them to it. So next season when the car will hold a set amount boost to redline and I can get a decent tune on it, I will show you every log in the book if you so desire.
 
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