Brake fluid.

tsirider13 · 07-14-2008, 10:18 AM

Hey guys,

O.k so, I went to a local event (Maxim wheels event) , It was over all a great event had lots of fun.

My car ran strong like hell and it handle amazing (thanks to mueller), Lag was almost invisilble. On a 35r

I was doing some laps just before event started.

But just before the time attack started i had no brakes at all.
I had to go four laps two for warm up and two under time without any freaking brakes, I managed to come 6th out of twelve in my class by using the very little brake left and the clutch it was that bad that at the very last lap i went off.

So the question here is what do you guys think went wrong?
I think it was brake fluid, The pedal would go all the way in and when it cooled down the brakes came back.

I am using the cobra brakes with pbr pads and SS brake lines.
What fluid are you guys using for racing i had Dot 5 fluid and it was garbage.

Over all was a good day if i would of had brakes and i didnt went off in the flying lap i would post a faster time and maybe a 2nd place would of come, Since there was no way to catch up to the winner who was driving a Porsche GT3 and who was few seconds faster.

.

Thanks.

tsiboosted · 07-14-2008, 10:23 AM

I would personally either run Motul 600 or ATE Super Blue. I run the ATE Super Blue in my car now and have never had any brake issues as you experienced at the track. I have ran Motul 600 in the past and also was very pleased with that fluid as well.

Also, when was the last time you bled your brakess? Did you bleed them at the track or at least a day before you went to the event? If not, next time add that to the to do list as well. I bleed my brakes before every event I attend

It could have been a combination of things as well. How old are your lines? It shouldn't have anything to do with your pads, PBR makes good equipment. But how old are they?

tsirider13 · 07-14-2008, 10:44 AM

The brakes, rotors, pads, and rotors are fairly new about 3000kms within a year.

No i did not bleed the lines the day prior, i will try one of those fuids you recomend and i will make sure to bleed the lines the day before racing.

Thanks,

-Manuel

By the way the brakes today feel like nothing happened yesterday!!

tsiboosted · 07-14-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsirider13

The brakes, rotors, pads, and rotors are fairly new about 3000kms within a year.

No i did not bleed the lines the day prior, i will try one of those fuids you recomend and i will make sure to bleed the lines the day before racing.

Thanks,

-Manuel

By the way the brakes today feel like nothing happened yesterday!!

Yeah, you will want to bleed them the next time you head to the track for sure. Both brands I mentioned are good quality racing brake fluids. I am sure anyone on here would say they are quality products to use. Good Luck

drivemusicnow · 07-14-2008, 01:31 PM

The fluid is definitely part of the problem. Since i'm assuming that you just do the occasional track day, I'd agree with the above recommendations for fluid.

The other part is the crappy pads. Definitely pick up a set of racing pads for your next event. Swap them on at the same time you bleed the brakes, then pull them back off for street driving. I recommend any track brake from porterfield, performance friction, Hawk, or carbotech. I personally use hawk brake pads as they seem to work well for me.

The next thing to help with braking is the technique of using your brakes. For track use ALWAYS go hard on and off the brakes. The less time you're on the brakes, the better. You're brakes will stay cooler, and you'll turn faster lap times.

tsiboosted · 07-14-2008, 01:34 PM

I agree with Greg on the pads as well. I too run Hawk pads on my race car with great results. I run HP+ pads in the front and HPS pads in the rear. Now the HP+ pads are more aggressive to what I am sure you are use to and they make a bit of a noise until they are heated up. But they are great pads.

talonTSIDriver · 07-14-2008, 02:14 PM

ATE Super Blue in everything i run, works awesome, never had a problem. I flush the fluid after every other big track day, and re-bleed before every event.

underradar92 · 07-14-2008, 06:54 PM

I just Googled PBR brakes, you need a real race pad on a race track. Or superoverkill brakes. Seriously, a race pad compound will be uber-helpful as it seems all of PBR's compounds seem to be street oriented. It is also a good idea to bleed out old fluid a few days preceding track weekends, as all of the high temp fluids are substantially more hygroscopic than DOT 3 and 4 fluids.

tsirider13 · 07-14-2008, 07:20 PM

O.k, I just order some fluid (super blue), what type of pads from hawk do i need there is alot of different compounds.

I was looking at DTC-70, but i just seriously dont know what compound i need.
Hawk Performance: Sports Car/GT Racing Brake Pads

Thanks again.

drivemusicnow · 07-14-2008, 10:35 PM

DTC-70 is a bit more hardcore than you'd need. I'd recommend the blues or blacks.

I'm ASSuming that by cobra brakes you mean mustang cobra from 94-04? If so, Try the blacks, if they work (wear is decent, bite is good etc) stick with them, if not step up to the blues.

If you have some spare time you might rig up some dryer vent hose for brake ducts before your next track event as well. 10$ disposable, and works surprisingly well.

asian312 · 07-15-2008, 09:10 AM

As always, great info from the seasoned vets.

I use Motul and Carbotech pads (XP-12, fronts only). One nice bit about the Carbotechs are that they are a non-ferrous compound which means they don't create surface rust from the brake dust on your wheel if they get wet. Prior I ran Porterfield R4-E (2 sets) with the OE 2piston setup. Aside from the rust issues, they are also very good at peeling your face off under braking. Between the two, I choose the Carbotechs as they are also a little friendlier on the rotor.

One more note on the ATE and Motul, dont forget to change the fluid out often. We had a Motul rep out at one of our events and gave some quality information on their products. While they are superior in cooping with higher temps, they are more prone to absorbing moisture at a much higher rate.

tsirider13 · 07-15-2008, 09:40 AM

O.k i am really sorry about this but, I been calling shops here in toronto and when i say that i need Hawks blue or black they act like they dont know what i am talking about.
does anyone have a part number or a specific name for this pads?

Am i looking for HP+ pads?

Thanks.

drivemusicnow · 07-15-2008, 09:54 AM

No autozone or normal parts store is going to carry them. You'd need an actual race shop, or just order them online..

Hp plus is their aggressive street pad.

tsirider13 · 07-15-2008, 10:42 AM

What shop do you guys order from? I will just order from them.
Shops here are retarded, It will take to the end of july for them to get them!!!!

Thanks,

Again.
-Manuel

talonTSIDriver · 07-15-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drivemusicnow

No autozone or normal parts store is going to carry them. You'd need an actual race shop, or just order them online..

Hp plus is their aggressive street pad.

HP+ pads are great for street/track use. depending on the track, you may need a bit more than the HP+'s.

tsiboosted · 07-15-2008, 11:56 AM

No ofense to you Andy or anyone else suggesting pads. But I personally run HP+ pads on the front of my car with no issues what so ever. They last 3 events per series. Thats over 6 hours of track time with some very, very hard braking; at times on track. Now I will give you that my car weighs allot less than most peoples as well, and I dont just stand on them, but they still get the job done for me very well. I know allot of Porsche guys that run them on their track cars as well with very good results and feedback on these pads. Just my $0.02 on it though guys

HERE is a link if you want to check them out from an On-Line store VIP Garage.

asian312 · 07-15-2008, 02:04 PM

Offense? You mean we aren't allowed to post differing information from the mainstream? Man we might as well shut down our forum

I haven't tried the HP+ but I know similar weight cars that I run with have issues with them. But I think there's a catch. One must take into account track configuration and tires. My local track, Texas World Speedway, is 2.9 miles long with some enormous straights. I see triple digits on two straights and avg speeds around the track are 81-82 mph according to Traqmate.

Tires are the other factor. If you can lock your wheels, you need more tire. If you can't, you need more brakes. With the R4-Es and the 255/40/17 (street tires) I couldn't lock up the tires. With the Brembos and Carbotechs, I left a good 30 yards of R888 rubber coming into turn one my first time out. Of course all I could think was man, first hot lap and brake fade already

. Fading on the other hand comes from heat. One approach is to get a pad that operates in a high range. The other is to add ducts to assist the rotors in dissipating heat.

Not sure where I'm going with all of this, but I'm hitting the 'submit button'

tsiboosted · 07-15-2008, 02:35 PM

I understand where you are coming from there. What issues did they have with their HP+ pads ?? I use them at Road Atlanta and it is an over 3 mile course with triple digit straightaways that go into 90 degree turns and I saw no issue what so ever with my pads. Another thing to consider is properly bedding the pads when you first install them as well. What type of rotors you are on, if you "know" how to brake the car or not. But I am not about to call out drivers and their skill levels for sure

With my car and brake setup, my brakes feel almost identical from start to finish in a 20 - 30 minute session at any track I race on. But I dont like brakes anyway, all they do is slow you down

I'm not on them very long unless I have to be.

talonTSIDriver · 07-15-2008, 03:26 PM

The track has lots to do with brake wear/fade. Some tracks you can get away with lesser race pads. Same way goes with tires.

I think the stock brake setup with HP+ pads and some brake ducting would work just fine, however I like to have a little more of a margin and running a more aggressive pad that will NOT fade. I've hit brake fad with my HP+ pads on my older silver talon a few times after some 100mph-20mph back to back stops.

Eddie, since your car is going to be a bit faster this season, look into some braking coolers/ducting. You may need it! You’ll probably also save yourself from replacing rotors every few events as well.