Help Needed!!! ASAP

[chriw21_2000]

Earlier today I went to roll my windows up and they didn't work. They are power windows, and are stuck down. The fuse under the hood isn't blown, the car only has 30,000 on it so the switch should be fine. What could it be? I dont have a multimeter with me to check out the switch. Does anyone have a schematic of the power windows? Both are not working. I jumped out the motors through the wire hook up on the switch and they worked. This has me stumped. Could it be a bad relay?

THANKS

 

[oldman]

One time my windows would not move because I accidently pushed the lock button, It drove me crazy. Maybe you did too.

 

[chriw21_2000]

nope tried that. THANKS THOUGH. I tried everything I know to do. I took apart the switch and its good. The windows can be rolled up but jumping them out through the wires, DUNNO!!!

THANKS

 

[oldman]

No problem, good luck.

 

[manuel2063]

here is a diagram of the power window. Try the relay put one of the other relays there.

 

[chriw21_2000]

Where is the relay at?

 

[chriw21_2000]

That diagram didn't show...

 

[Defiant]

Here, podner. Sorry it's damned PDF:

http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/dsm/2g_doorlock_window_circuit_diagrams.pdf

Are you really, really sure it's not the lock button?

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Defiant
Here, podner. Sorry it's damned PDF:

http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/dsm/2g_doorlock_window_circuit_diagrams.pdf

Are you really, really sure it's not the lock button?

If I may jump in here,

Maybe pedaling backwards for a moment and to keep him from having a nightmare with the schematics just yet.

Preferbaly using a 12v test light probe the switch for power with the key in the Acc position. If yes, then probe the outputs including that lock switch to see if power is interrupted when switch is in the lock mode, if yes, then probe the outputs to the windows. I seem to recall the harness plug was able to move enough to open the output circuit yet power through all the switches. If you have no on these then you are probably under the hood.

But back to the switch and motors. You can make a circuit breaker using a heavy duty turn signal flasher, use the cheap can type with only 2 terminals ($3-$5). Then add a couple of 12-14 gauge wires that you can jumper the switch or from a power source in series to put power see if anything moves. You can also use this to power the window motors themselves though it may be pushing the limit of the flasher, at least won't smoke any relays or harness. If you can at least get the windows up by using the flasher you can then sleep on the rest for a day or so without having rain and theves to worry about.

They do make wire piercing aligator clips which are quite handy, trailer rental yards use to keep them around for a quick lash up. May have seen some at Auto Zone though not sure on that. They don't come with insulating boots so be careful the hot side doesn't short to ground. This is 12v stuff so no danger of getting shocked.

This will help to isolate if it's a relay, harness/connector, or some other component. It would be quite unusual to have both motors go out at the same time. Do recheck fusable links, there is a major 60 or 80 amp which takes out other items like the headlights and interior lights as well which you may not have noticed if diagnosing in daylight.

I say 12v test light for unlike a meter you don't have to read a value, from the corner of your eye you can see the bulb light. It will become your best friend for life and rarely get you into trouble with most anything you are testing under the hood. Micro circuits you should pretty much stay away from but all these gauge problems that occupy a lot of this board can be solved with that simple tool.

Defiant, wouldn't you agree in all probability it will be the switch, relay, and then harness/connectors in that order if the fuses are good.

Cheers,
Gene

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by GTM
I seem to recall the harness plug was able to move enough to open the output circuit yet power through all the switches.

Defiant, wouldn't you agree in all probability it will be the switch, relay, and then harness/connectors in that order if the fuses are good.

I'd try the switches, then that harness question. I know I've had the speedo connector lose contact three times, and never having come unplugged. Earlier this week, my driver's side lo-beam melted half its plug through a poor connection, while still fully plugged-in. I feel ghosts of FIAT....
Meanwhile, the hard-to-reach plugs you _need_ to unhook stay connected well enough to pull a ship through Panama. On the dirt part, not the canal.

Another thing: the bosses that the screws holding the window switches go into, under the plastic trim surround on the door panel, broke on my driver's door, allowing the switch box to drop far enough that I was no longer able to work my windows.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Defiant
I'd try the switches, then that harness question. I know I've had the speedo connector lose contact three times, and never having come unplugged. Earlier this week, my driver's side lo-beam melted half its plug through a poor connection, while still fully plugged-in. I feel ghosts of FIAT....
Meanwhile, the hard-to-reach plugs you _need_ to unhook stay connected well enough to pull a ship through Panama. On the dirt part, not the canal.

Another thing: the bosses that the screws holding the window switches go into, under the plastic trim surround on the door panel, broke on my driver's door, allowing the switch box to drop far enough that I was no longer able to work my windows.

These people don't know what FIAT stands for... Fix It Again Tony.

The harness plug I was thinking of was inside a '89 Voyager (Mitsu 3.0 engine) drivers door. The pinch lock on the connector was mounted so that in the process of removing the window switch and giving a tug for a little extra wire it would depress one side of the connector attached to the door bracing and then it would open up just enough to let power into the switch but the return circuits would do nothing. Needless to say you can't notice this with the door panel on and it took me a good couple of hours troubleshooting that pisser. Probably would have never happened in a right hand drive car, huh.

I think I'm understanding your broken switch screw boss and I solved it by through bolting which required removing the door panel to remove in the future. I do spray WD40 at that switch as a general preventative maintenence. You leave the window down a little for vent and of course it rains while you are in the supermarket. Bleah water all over everthing.

Are you saying the speedo would stop operating but the outside sheath would still be connected? If that a yes, then disconnect and pull out a foot or so and give a few gentle tugs on the drive cable. This usually will stretch it enough without doing any damage. However, if you are a gorilla and pull too much so there are open gaps then you can grind some off the square end OR replace the blasted thing. If you have a needle that bounces and doesn't keep a steady position then the inside cable it too long, As it rotates in the sheath it will take a set in one position and then another as the resistive force winds and unwinds which causes it to jump. Simple fix, just grind 1/8" off the square end.

They never tell you to go over those headlight plugs with WD40 and unplug everycouple years as part of a routine maintenance. See if you had bought one of those cheap headlights it would have burned out and you would have replaced it thus cleaning the contacts... Whap! ouch.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by GTM


These people don't know what FIAT stands for... Fix It Again Tony.

Fix It Alla Time.

The harness plug I was thinking of was inside a '89 Voyager (Mitsu 3.0 engine) drivers door. The pinch lock on the connector was mounted so that in the process of removing the window switch and giving a tug for a little extra wire it would depress one side of the connector attached to the door bracing and then it would open up just enough to let power into the switch but the return circuits would do nothing.

Nearly as good as the nut on a string inside a closed panel.

I think I'm understanding your broken switch screw boss and I solved it by through bolting which required removing the door panel to remove in the future.

I got away with longer screws. When I get to a breakers and retrieve another trim panel, I'll reinforce the bosses with JB Weld before putting it in. It's just one of the many places where the 2Gs are more cheaply-built than the 1Gs.

I do spray WD40 at that switch as a general preventative maintenence. You leave the window down a little for vent and of course it rains while you are in the supermarket. Bleah water all over everthing.

Yes, but the switches are pretty well shrouded for it- I'd be surprised if a spray from the top is getting to where you want the protection, and the Water Displacing.

Are you saying the speedo would stop operating but the outside sheath would still be connected?

No, 2G. Electric speedo. But the very same needle reaction as a bum cable, very odd when I realized it was 'lectric. I'd been through enough of that cable horseplay with the tach on my SR-L 311.

They never tell you to go over those headlight plugs with WD40 and unplug everycouple years as part of a routine maintenance.

There's a product in the motorcycle industry -more exposed to the elements- called "Protect All" which is supposed to be the ant's pants for this sort of thing.

See if you had bought one of those cheap headlights it would have burned out and you would have replaced it thus cleaning the contacts...

Don't forget to get those reflectors re-silvered!

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Defiant

...
No, 2G. Electric speedo. But the very same needle reaction as a bum cable, very odd when I realized it was 'lectric. I'd been through enough of that cable horseplay with the tach on my SR-L 311.

There's a product in the motorcycle industry -more exposed to the elements- called "Protect All" which is supposed to be the ant's pants for this sort of thing.

Don't forget to get those reflectors re-silvered!

2G electric speedo jumping/bouncing? Off the top this is sounding like a voltage stabalization unit about to go south. The ones I remember for other gauges were pretty crude. Essentially a bi-metalic strip with a single wrap of about 30 turns using resistance wire. When the charging volts varried the wire would heat and bi-metalic strip would open contact points thus allowing it to cool off and make contact again. Over time points would burn, metalic strip would distort thus giving longer interval cycle which was then noticed as meters would not remain steady. You could fiddle fart around and maybe get them back into adjustment on your own car but we replaced them on customers cars. They only cost $13 and it was 2-4 hrs labor to get to the blasted thing so you didn't want to be eating the job the second time around. You know me, I'll fix anything that "ain't" dead and don't move.

There are several products on the market for preventing electrical corrosion, some look like the heat sink grease you use on your PC CPU, others look like vasoline which is also used, then there are several products for marine applications which set up like bakealite(sp?) and a nightmare when hanging from a bosuns chair 60' off the deck just to replace a bulb. Still I grab the WD40 9 times out of 10 for most stuff for I hate the greasy feel when trying to pull connectors apart etc.

I've not had a problem needing to resilver but those clear plastic headlight lenses are a pain. I'd like to know who in the DOT admin got paid to accept those when you can look a clear turnsignal lense of 30 years ago and it's in perfect shape.

I almost took Lexan to court over a 3 year old motorcycle windshield that had yellowed so bad you couldn't see a school bus. Fortunately there was a date cast into that piece of crap and they replaced it. Don't know what the standards are for these headlights. Hells Bells you can go to a junk yard and pull out original factory bulbs that are 30 years old that are still good why do we have to suffer the crap they throw at us these days. The Feds got after the Battery makers for engeneering them to expire just before the warranty was up so you would come back to just get some adjustment and end up paying more money. Argh!! Soap box mode off.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by GTM


2G electric speedo jumping/bouncing? Off the top this is sounding like a voltage stabalization unit about to go south.

No, the sixties are gone, Gene. Like the rest of it, the 2G speedo runs off the ECU, from the signals it gets off the reed switches in the tranny sender. I went though the rest of that on the Roadster, I was shocked they were doing that kind of junk that late in the game.

Still I grab the WD40 9 times out of 10 for most stuff for I hate the greasy feel when trying to pull connectors apart etc.

And only Hoppe's No. 9 smells any better.

I've not had a problem needing to resilver but those clear plastic headlight lenses are a pain. I'd like to know who in the DOT admin got paid to accept those when you can look a clear turnsignal lense of 30 years ago and it's in perfect shape.

We're keeping cars lots longer than they intended. Glass and a vacuum is great for durability, but sealed-beams were always the first thing I got rid of on all my cars. Halogen spoiled me early-on.

I almost took Lexan to court over a 3 year old motorcycle windshield that had yellowed so bad you couldn't see a school bus.

I think there's variances from batch-to-batch. And I'm sure they're ozone susceptible. Odd how some people's lights keep going yellow, and others never have a problem.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Defiant


I'm here, didn't mean to bail out. I hate a.s holes and LightningGSX has decided he is going to f..k with me. I do not like phonies.

I have known him and a thousand more with the same name. It is a dark day when some arse can manipulate the content of fact so
God is will take favor.

Yes, I have violated my own rules and those which have been a precept governing my life. Thank your for your kindness.

GTM

 

[chriw21_2000]

It was the relay. I took another relay and stuck it in and it started working again. I just needed someone to tell me where it was. Above the fuse box top right. Thanks anyways