Major belt problem (long)

[dsm1gturbotalon]

I had my water pump and timing belt replaced three weeks ago. I live in the dorms at UW-Green Bay and was on my way to Racine to visit the family when the water pump gave out and the car started to overheat. I pulled over and had it towed to the nearest AAA certified shop. I picked the car up a few days later and didn't have any problems until this past Sunday when I was backing out of the garage. I noticed a squeaking that I hadn't heard before. I shut off the car and took a look. I noticed the alternator belt was frayed on the side towards the engine. I then found the other part of the alternator belt laying down there. Apparently the AC compressor belt had come off it's pulley and lodged itself behind another pulley. So I decided to take the AC belt off(bad idea?) because my AC doesn't work anyway(needs recharging). The car was started again and it was making some noises. We noticed more belt fragments coming off under the car. We let it run awhile and figured it was the remnants of the ac belt that had become stuck. I then made my way up to Green Bay which is about 150 miles or so. I made it within 10 miles of Green Bay when it sounded like the cruise disengaged and then I put the clutch in and the car died. I pulled over an had it towed to the university. I went to look at it this morning and I noticed what looks to be an exit hole on the timing belt cover. Did my timing belt jump? If so the motor may be gone right? I called the shop and they are coming probably today to pick the car up. They have a 1 year warranty on their work so hopefully there won't be any trouble if it needs a lot of work. I'm just wondering what the possible problems that could have occured?

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Worst case scenario your motor is gone. Could have gotten lucky and just bent valves but i doubt it seeing that u were goin down the highway. I dont think that u removing the A/C belt had anything to do with it. In either case, the shop who did the timing and water pump should be liable if they didnt get the belt tentioned correctly or screwed something else up.

Oh yah and GO PACKERS!

 

[jott5555]

the exact same thing happened to me, the shop that did you tbelt did it wrong they are sopposed to pin the tensioner then set the timeing then release the tensioner, well they did it the oppsite way they released it then set the timeing, it causes the belt to jump 8 teeth when the tensior relaxes and there goes your valves, take it to a dsm specilist and make the other shop pay, thats what i did, at freeway speeds the valves probally hit the pistons and screwed em up u dont need a new eng just a new setof pistons rings and new heads,

good luck bro

jon

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

Thanks for the replies. I figured at least the head was gone. The car was towed there yesterday afternoon and I should be getting a call today from them. Jott5555, did the shop you took it to try and get out of fixing it? Is there any b.s. they are likely to throw at me, trying to pin it on me? I am having some bad luck with this car. It was broken into for the third time this summer last Saturday and on Sunday the timing belt goes

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

I called the shop and they said the crank pulley split in half (apparently he said it is like two pulleys connected to each other) causing something to shoot up in the timing belt area throwing it off time. Does this happen all the time or are they throwing me a line to get out of it? Could this explain the AC belt and alternator belt fraying? Now I have a $500 towing charge because I thought it was their fault and a possibly blown motor. I don't understand why this just happens to occur right after they went in there and changed the belts.

 

[Thunderskull]

It's very likely that they are not BSing you. If your crank pulley was seperating, it would cause your AC belt to fray. I'm surprised your alternater belt wasn't damaged as well. But, the damage to the AC belt that you described is pretty consistent with a crank pulley beginning to seperate. A good mechanic would've given the car a good look and spotted the problem. Though that's not an excuse you could use to get them to cover the damages. Your story is exactly why I'm my own mechanic. And, if there's something I can't do, then I find a DSM shop that'll do it for me.

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

I realize that is the problem but I don't understand how they could have missed it when they took off all the belts to do the water pump. This was only 3 weeks after they were changed that it split. The AC belt jumped, we then took it off completely. The alternator belt was frayed, I don't know if that was mentioned earlier. I only drove it after I found the AC belt because I had to get back to college the next day. Otherwise it would have just sat and had a more thorough look over.

 

[Thunderskull]

I hope I never have to understand your point of view on this. It is likely that these guys are bad mechanics. When they did your timing belt they had to remove the crankshaft pulley. It's more likely than not that the problem with the pulley was present when they looked at it. However, they know you can't prove whether or not the problem presented itself before or after they did the timing belt. It could be that they are just bad mechanics, did the bare minimum, ignored the pulley, and took your money. It could also be that the problem just wasn't there when you took your car in. If it occured on the drive home, you might have a case. If you could prove that they didn't torque something to spec or left off a bolt, then you might have a case. I feel for ya, but there isn't anything you can do to get them to pay for the damages. The only advice I can give is either learn to do the work yourself, or find yourself a good DSM shop and take it there. I'm really sorry this happened to you, and I hope it doesn't happen to me. Good luck on the repairs. If you're hard pressed for cash, go to DSMtrader.com and see if you can find an engine on the cheap. Or, maybe now would be the perfect time to build up the engine you've got.

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

The thing about this is the only reason I took it to this shop in the first place was that the water pump seal went out and the car started overheating on my way home 3 weeks ago. I called AAA and this was the only AAA shop in Manitowac. I really didn't have much of a choice. I was on my way back to have the water pump fixed, I knew it was starting to go bad. I was refilling coolant/water consistently.
We'll see how things go. The problem is that I'm a college kid and don't know how much the folks are going to contribute to the rebuild fund. My dad called the shop today and they told him that they are going to try and put a new timing belt on and try starting it. They said this is a noninterference engine and there shouldn't have been valve-piston contact. Judging by the some posts I've read that doesn't seem to be the case. I should have more news tomorrow.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Originally posted by dsm1gturbotalon
They said this is a noninterference engine and there shouldn't have been valve-piston contact.

Well there ya go. They dont know jack.

 

[Thunderskull]

Oh geeez.................

If I had a beer I'd be crying in it.

I can't believe these guys. They shouldn't even be allowed to drive.

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

Ok, the car is being towed back home to Racine tomorrow. The shop is still claiming it is not their fault. They for one thought the motor was a noninterference engine. They decided not to tell us they removed the crank pulley during the install of the new timing belt until after we told them they had to. Then that person had to ask someone else to confirm that they had to. They also don't think the crank pulley has 5 total bolts, 4 on the outside and one in the middle. They claim there are only 4 total. He then said that I should get a new mechanic, even though Porcaro Mitsubishi also says there are 5 total. Then he went on about how the car was modified and how I shouldn't be doing that to a car that old. Now when I went to pay them for the towing and looking at the car they claim that they inspect the pulley when they take it off. He said he called Mitsu and they have had tow orders for crank pulleys in the last 18 months. So I guess that's supposed to tell me that it was just my turn? I'm just glad that the car is getting out of that shit-hole. I didn't allow them to remove the head so all I know right now is all 16 valves are messed up. They still claim the pistons should be fine. Amazing....

Joel

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

Ok, I have a couple questions. Has there been recalls/revisions of the crank pulley. Custer said there had been two revisions. How long does it take an acceptable crank pulley (one that has been supposedly inspected for defects) to split apart? Thanks

Joel

 

[Jason84]

man if you were up by green bay you should have called luke @ beyond redline performance... hes the king of dsms up in that area.. where i go

 

[audiodude123]

just for clarification...

4 10mm bolts for the harmonic balancer (accessory pulley) and 1 19mm bolt for crankshaft timing and balance belt sproket's (the big one in the middle) the big bolt should never have been removed unless they were replacing the timing sprokets.

as far as the accessory pulley (harmonic balancer) separating it is known that can happen and the cracked rubber can sometimes not be very obvious unless you take a close look at the ring around the edge of the balancer (i saw that on mine when i checked my timing belt, and the fact it has 140,000 miles, i replaced it and the engine definiately ran smoother, well until it spun a rod bearing)