Problems after a head swap

[santraser]

I got a couple emails from people and it seems like the consesus
is my firing order still isn't correct. I tried using the RRE method
but maybe I am reading it wrong. Could someone please post up or
email me the 1g firing order? I think with all the different ways
people relay firing orders I am getting it confused. Can someone
post it in stupid terms for me, such as cylinder one, goes to the top
position on the coil pack. My coil pack is 1g and mounted sideways
as found in a stock 1g, and my diagram I made from my 2g made no
sense, as it was mouted horizontally and I went by postion. The RRE
page tells cylinder numbers and where to put them but when they say
1+4 cyls go to coil pack 2+3 I don't know if they mean position 2+3
or 2+3 as engraved on the coil pack which is different.
Anyways--I tried just about every way to swap the wires and I
don't think that is my problem. Does anyone know what the effects of
having the cas installed 180* would be? My car runs but is sloooooow
to rev and just doesn't sound right. The cams and t-belt were
installed and double-triple checked by a club expert--so I know that
is not an issue. Could my timing be wrong? Is there anything I did
to change my timing going to a 1g head? One other thing I noted was
when I tried logging it while idling the 02 was reading SUPER lean
and the a/f gauge was almost pegged lean. I know the motor is
getting the right amount of gas though---so that might be another
clue to you all on what I did wrong. What a depressing mess.

I have a 1g head,im,tb, and coil pack and the 97 cas set-up. When I started the car up, I needed to keep on the gas for it to idle. It sounds horrible like I am missing a couple cylinders. I tried swapping the plugs to various firing orders and nothing changed. I tried to invert the cas
signal with dsmlink and that had no effects. The only thing I noticed is
the intake manifold was almost as hot as the exhaust manifold! I
couldn't beleive how hot it was to the touch--not sure what can
cause that. Anyways---I have no idea what to even try now and I am
stuck. I am hoping someone can give me an idea on what to check with my vague descriptions.
Thanks guys!

mark

 

[Moosh]

When you hit the throttle how does your engine sound? Does it sound like you got a huge hole in your exhaust and your car has kind of a muffled growl instead of the normal healthy sound?

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by santraser
...

I The only thing I noticed is
the intake manifold was almost as hot as the exhaust manifold! I
couldn't beleive how hot it was to the touch--not sure what can
cause that. Anyways---I have no idea what to even try now and I am
stuck. I am hoping someone can give me an idea on what to check with my vague descriptions.
Thanks guys!mark

You can block off the hot water circulation to the intake manifold by putting a short piece of wooden dowel in the hose. If it takes too long for the car to warm up in the winter then you will need to swap for a piece of copper tubing that you can crush to restrict water flow.

Pistons 1&4 up, coil pack fires both. Pistons 2&3 up, other pack fires.

Fireing order 1,3,4,2

Coil pack markings may be for cylinder designations OR fire order. You will need to pull plug wires and verify that in fact 1&4 fire exactly the same time, same for the other 2 wires.

If that doesn't solve it then tell us more and that the cam timing is correct and that you are not loosing coolant.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by santraser
mark [/B]

Forgot to mention the CAS blade drive has a "V" mark on the end which is very subtle. Make sure that #1 piston is on compression and the mark is up.

I'm only guessing but the knock sensor may be indexed off this position and though the car will run, crazy things may happen as it tries to compensate with the wrong coil pack firing at the wrong crank angle.

Hope something here solves your problem.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[santraser]

Thanks for the help so far---I am using the 97 cas which has a white mark on it. I was told to get the engine at tdc and put the white mark facing the tb. I don't think the water on the TB has anything to do with my problem. My car does make popping sounds and idles at 400, then 200 then dies. I need to keep gas on or it will stall it. It sounds like it is running on 2 cylinders. What a mess. I am pretty sure it is something electrical--either the cas, the coil pack or the igniter. Strange that it runs at all though with the gas applied. I have tried every firing order now and I don't think that is the issue. I think I will flip the cas 180* and try that. Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by santraser
Thanks for the help so far---I am using the 97 cas which has a white mark on it. I was told to get the engine at tdc and put the white mark facing the tb. I don't think the water on the TB has anything to do with my problem. My car does make popping sounds and idles at 400, then 200 then dies. I need to keep gas on or it will stall it. It sounds like it is running on 2 cylinders. What a mess. I am pretty sure it is something electrical--either the cas, the coil pack or the igniter. Strange that it runs at all though with the gas applied. I have tried every firing order now and I don't think that is the issue. I think I will flip the cas 180* and try that. Thanks for the help everyone.

I mention the water only if you didn't get the head gasket seated correctly and in effect you have a blown headgasket.

I'm not a professional DSM mech so can mostly draw on my son's '90 TSI. I was not aware the '97 CAS would work for as I recall there were 2 sensors used in later generations where as the 1G was solo. Someone else help me out here??

As for the idle speed it sounds like the Air bleed screw is too far screwed down and not running on idle fuel settings. A rule of thumb is to serew it down gently until it stops and then back off 3 complete revolutions. You can put a wad of electrical tape on top of that screw to keep if from moving if the "O" ring is not holding adjustment after you are done. If the screw is missing then use a plastic ball point pen jammed in the hole and tape in place until you can get a replacement screw.

If that does not solve anything then double check _ALL_ vacuum hose routings and they have no cracks or breaks.

Make sure your throttle plate is completely closing or it wont draw the proper air through the air bleed screw passage and hold the injectors open correctly and the spark timing may also be affected.

Do establish that CAS will work because the info I had was that it would not and you MUST use the original unit plus the electronic control box (forgot the name) assigned to that unit. You may find more info here or on VFAQ.com for you really need to know. There are a few people here who know all that info off the top of their head. So go check the hoses and screw setting for nobody can do that for you.

Start a quest for the correct info on the CAS. You may do better in the performance section rather than the "problem diagnosis" which a lot of pros won't read for the scope is to vague. I read it because there are a lot of questions which may be more automotive in general and not DMS specific or questions with 100 people viewing and few or no answers.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Moosh]

Originally posted by santraser
Thanks for the help so far---I am using the 97 cas which has a white mark on it. I was told to get the engine at tdc and put the white mark facing the tb. I don't think the water on the TB has anything to do with my problem. My car does make popping sounds and idles at 400, then 200 then dies. I need to keep gas on or it will stall it. It sounds like it is running on 2 cylinders. What a mess. I am pretty sure it is something electrical--either the cas, the coil pack or the igniter. Strange that it runs at all though with the gas applied. I have tried every firing order now and I don't think that is the issue. I think I will flip the cas 180* and try that. Thanks for the help everyone.

Did flipping the CAS fix your problem?

 

[raycer97]

Ignition wires are pretty simple. On the head, it's 4321 from left to right of course. On the coil pack it would normally be 4123 but you need to swap them to 2341 (left to right on the coils).

4  1  2  3
         |
  ------
|
4  3  2  1

4  1  2  3
   |
   |
4  3  2  1

4  1  2  3
|
  ------
         |
4  3  2  1

4  1  2  3
          |
          |
          |
4  3  2  1

 

[santraser]

Thanks for all the help guys---jsut for the archives--here is what I did. One of the guys in the local club walked me through this step by step--and it worked great--I know other will benefit from this. You take out all your plugs and put them in the boots--leave the other end in your coil pack. You put the key to on, and stick a long screwdriver in cylinder 1. Use a 1/2 inch extension on the crank pulley and turn cw slowly until you see when the plug fires and check the position of the driver handle. The plug should fire when the handle is at the top---mine wasn't. I ended up swapping the plugs to a weird order and it was perfect. The cas didn't matter if it was out of phase--which was strage--and I ran without it no problem as well--which is stranger. But the car is running peachy now. Well...rough---but all the power is there and it idles ok. I still have a lot of little gremlens to chase down--but the major problem is solved--it was firing order. I am now running cyls 1 and 4 on the bottom 2 connections of the coil pack and 2+3 cyls are the top 2 on the pack.

Mark

 

[santraser]

Raycer97---you were correct but the way---but to be honest--I didn't understand what you were saying until now. I needed it spoken retard to me. I was confused if people were telling me coil pack position by 1-2-3-4 numbers--or if they were talking about the numbers engraved on the pack itself--which were different. Once someone told me to look at the cp with the wires facing me and go from there on which wire went to which cyl it was easy.

Mark

 

[Moosh]

I am kind of confused. Isn't it always either 4123 or 2341 depending on the CAS? Yeah, I have a 1G CAS too and it doesnt matter if its inverted it still runs the same which is very odd. My car idles fine but when I touch the accelerator it sounds REALLY bad. I don't know what the deal is with it.

 

[Moosh]

ALSO, I just noticed you are using a 1G cas in a 1995 car, did you change the fuel injector order like it says to on the RRE website? You have to swap the fuel injector pins at your ECU which is easy, or wire in an invertor which is a lot of work which makes moving the pins at the ECU a better option

 

[santraser]

I don't see anything about swapping injectors on the rre site? I am using the 97+8 cas--not the 1g. And yes--I ended up changing the spark plugs (firing order)

 

[Moosh]

Oh okay, nevermind there was another thread with a 1G cas guy having troubles