Humming noise when turning right

[ascopel]

I have a 95 talon AWD with 83,000 miles and I hear a humming noise coming from the front, i can't isolate if it's coming from the right or left side of the car. It only happens when i turn to the right (even slightyly at highway speeds). The humming is not as noticible at speeds under 35 mph. But it is increasingly louder at higher speeds. In the past 6 months I've replaced all the ball joints in the front, the front right wheel hub assembly, and just replaced all the pirelli's with quiter dunlop 5000 series tires lowering the road noise dramatically (problaby why the humming is more noticble and annoying than ever). Could there be a problem with the left hub assembly? I know I can easily check that. Any ideas?

[GTM]

Originally posted by ascopel
... Could there be a problem with the left hub assembly? I know I can easily check that. Any ideas?

My money is on the left bearing, why are you hesitant to endorse that conclusion? Not too much else up there that can carry a tune much less hum. You could run your open hand over the tread to see if there is a wear problem from alignment. X the tires if something shows up and see if that changes anything. While it's up on the jack shake the top and bottom of the tire to see if there is any play. You can try hitting the top of sidewall with the heel of your hand, you might hear a bit of a clunk that you can't feel when rocking the top & bottom.

Let us know what you find.

Cheers,
GTM

[4g63tc]

so if you hit the wheel and it clunks what exactly does it mean? my rear drivers side does that?

[GTM]

Originally posted by 4g63tc
so if you hit the wheel and it clunks what exactly does it mean? my rear drivers side does that?

Bearing is out of adjustment or wearing out. If it's a FWD then try the adjustment on that right rear. Crazy business, my factory '90 manual doesn't show this procedure so I can't tell you what the process is. Some mfg have a torque value, others have a torque value and then back it off 1 flat, others are tighten until you can just move the washer with a screwdriver. Hopefully someone has an aftermarket manual and look it up for you/us.

Did you get your other problem fixed?

Cheers,
GTM

[4g63tc]

well it kinda went away on it's own again, cause i didn't do anything to it. however i did manage to pick up another gsx salvaged, with 50k on the drivetrain for $800.00 complete.

if it rears it's ugly head again i'll swap the mas sensor since it seems to be a start point. still wondering about a tcu problem.

thanks for the help otherwise. oh yeah my car is an awd. maybe i should check the cv joint back there, although i don't feel any discernable vibration coming from the rear.

[GTM]

Originally posted by 4g63tc
well it kinda went away on it's own again, cause i didn't do anything to it. however i did manage to pick up another gsx salvaged, with 50k on the drivetrain for $800.00 complete. ... if it rears it's ugly head again i'll swap the mas sensor since it seems to be a start point. still wondering about a tcu problem. ... thanks for the help otherwise. oh yeah my car is an awd. maybe i should check the cv joint back there, although i don't feel any discernable vibration coming from the rear.

I just love chasing ghosts... not! Good news on the parts car.

Took a quick look at rear AWD in the manual and saw the stub axle, this takes a hefty 116-159 ft lb torque which is a huge span. Without reading all the info my guess is you attach something like a fish scale to a wheel stud and pull until you get a specified value for rotating friction. This is done with the half shaft flange _disconnected_ or you will have additional frictional losses into the differential.

That would be the first place to look. There are a significant number of control rod bushings / silent blocks which would cause a clunk. These will be harder to diagnose since if you jack the body up it unloads the suspension at a different angle than when going around a corner and hitting a bump. Jacking on the bearing carrier may prove to be more revealing but the lower control arms can't move because the jack is planted on the floor/ground. You can try finding a suitable pry bar and a place to purchase so you can effect different load angles while looking for movement in the bushings.

Your commute road for those who don't know is the world famous "Angeles Crest Highway" which is well doccumented on the Internet for testing man and machine to the max. Decreasing radius turns, reverse camber that you fly into at 70 and exit at 25 after running through all the gears while practicing your heel and toe. Their is no room for stupidity or lapse in attention for every weekend someone will have trashed their bike or car with fatal results. Darwinian theory of natural selection or fear and common sense be your guide. I don't think there are any two curves that are the same, sadly their is now too much traffic and you don't get the experience of a continuious high intensity drive that existed 30-40 years ago.


Have you ever tried counting how many curves??

Let me know if you need more specific info.

Cheers,
GTM

[4g63tc]

tell me about it i'm usually going against the flow of traffic when commuting, i love the drive, but if i had a nickle for every jerk crossing into my lane, or passing across the double yellow on blind curves i'd have a new tubo by now! The "Crest" is still a good drive if you go there after 8 at night or after 9 AM on Sat. Sun. is cool but you have to watch out for the kamikaze bikers.
Just a word of caution though watch for black ice this time of year.

well with the car on the ground i can kick the wheel and it will clunk, however when i raise it up it doesn't. i think this is what you were getting at right?

[GTM]

Originally posted by 4g63tc

...
but you have to watch out for the kamikaze bikers. Just a word of caution though watch for black ice this time of year.
...
well with the car on the ground i can kick the wheel and it will clunk, however when i raise it up it doesn't. i think this is what you were getting at right?

Yup, kids with a death wish.

Exactly so, with a wheeled floor jack set on a piece of formica (not an absolute must) and a small piece of 2x4 you can jack on the bearing carrier. Have a safety stand under the body jacking perch but not loaded. Grab the top and bottom of the tire and see if it has any play... there should be none. Give it your kick test or the heel of your hand, if you can't find any problem there then pull the wheel.

Swing the jack so it's crosswise, don't have the floor jack up too high when you swing it around. Now you can bang on things with a rubber mallet, (plastic shot loaded are too hard, with your free hand grasp the various control arms. You should be able to find the culprit.

If it's a silent block pressed in place you have options for removal. With a bench vise select one socket that will just fit inside and another which will support the outside of the fitting yet allow the old block to slide inside as you tighten the vise. An extra set of hands holding things as you initially draw the vise up. This is going to take a lot of pressure and it will pop free with a bang. At some point you may have to switch to a deep well or substitute a short section of pipe.

Another option is to use a grade 7 bolt, washers and nut through the sockets to draw the bushing out. Now should the worst prevail and it doesn't budge set fire to the rubber and let it burn on the barbeque. Using a "good" quality hack saw insert and cut the outer sleeve until it just kisses the control rod fitting. With a hammer and small chisel (broken screwdriver) collapse one side of the sleeve until you can work it out, a pair of pliers can grip the curled over edge and then twist as you pull. Sand the rust out and use the vise or draw bolt to install the new bushing. Don't let it get ####ed going in for you will have to start all over. Not as bad as it seems, 10-30 min for each fitting if you have all the right sockets. Of coures you can take the easy way out and pay someone to press the parts for you.

Ball joints can be a bit more of a pain, let me know what you find. You might get lucky and the dealer has the parts otherwise order them. If you really get stuck with the diagnosis bring it by when you are on this side of the hill and I'll take a look.

Cheers,
GTM

[GTM]

Originally posted by GTM
Sand the rust out and use the vise or draw bolt to install the new bushing. Don't let it get ####ed going in for you will have to start all over.GTM

Hurrumph!! Don't let it get crooked, keep it straight or you will have to knock it back out.

GTM

[4g63tc]

Originally posted by GTM





Have you ever tried counting how many curves??



Cheers,
GTM

there are approx 201 curves. in 35 miles. 59 on the La Canada flintridge side. (7 miles)
i figured the numbers based on the steering wheel changing directions left to right.

i couldn't resist since you asked

as for the clunk in the rear i'm gonna check it out this weekend, and i'll let ya know.

[GTM]

Originally posted by 4g63tc
there are approx 201 curves. in 35 miles. 59 on the La Canada flintridge side. (7 miles)
i figured the numbers based on the steering wheel changing directions left to right.i couldn't resist since you asked

as for the clunk in the rear i'm gonna check it out this weekend, and i'll let ya know.

Ha, I was thinking it had to be close to 200. I think the worst are on this side since that portion of the road was built in the 1920's(?) as part of the Mt. Wilson observatory access. The back side came later and conformed to engeneering standards for highway design with defined curve radius. I can't remember any reverse camber curves and it's much faster. Plus it's got that long straightaway where I had one of my 1956 Aurealias up to 150 more than once.
........

Ok on the weekend project, I'll be around. You might call up some dealers and see what they have in stock for some of the various parts you might need. Don't forget the wheel bearings, if those are too pricy, might be able to find them in a bearing house for a lot less.

Cheers,
GTM

[4g63tc]

there are a few reverse camber curves, before the tunnel. it's a nice s curve into a banked corner going uphill, by far one of the most fun turns on the "crest". I love the straight away near the old "kentucky" shooting range as you leave the crest on the palmdale side. you can definately max the top end on that one. ( i love blasting past the bikers parked at the entrance side), but becareful the mc cop likes to hide behind the sign, but if the bikers are there he isn't.

[4g63tc]

oh yeah the Chili is great at the little cafe.

[ascopel]

Well, I put the left front side up on the jack and hit the tire from all angles and found that it does make a slight "clunking' noise (metal to metal). There is no way to tell that the tire is moving, but the other wheels do not make the same "clunking" noise. So my belief is that the wheel bearing is wearing out slowly. Just very annoying, so I am going to replace it within a couple weeks. Thanks for all the help everyone.

[GTM]

Originally posted by ascopel
Well, I put the left front side up on the jack and hit the tire from all angles and found that it does make a slight "clunking' noise (metal to metal). There is no way to tell that the tire is moving, but the other wheels do not make the same "clunking" noise. So my belief is that the wheel bearing is wearing out slowly. Just very annoying, so I am going to replace it within a couple weeks. Thanks for all the help everyone.

As the wear advances it will get to the point you can move the tire. Perhaps I should have also suggested using a probe stethescope or a 1/4"-3/8" wooden dowel as a listening device. To be effective you will need to jack the car up and run the engine with it in top gear. With the wheel off you can probe the bearing carrier and other related parts but watch out for the wheel studs they can and will hurt should you bump them while probing rotating parts. If the disk wobbles then put a couple of lug nuts which may need washers if they bottom out before contact. You might even make a point on the dowel put some grease on the axle dimple and try to listen there.

In preperation for removal you could squirt the parts with WD-40 every few days, try to keep it off the brake rotor and pads.

Cheers,
GTM

[4g63tc]

well i did remove the wheel and did a visual check, i found that one of the bushings on the lower arm? was worn, and that the bolt was slightly loose.

thanks, Gene for the help

[GTM]

Originally posted by 4g63tc
well i did remove the wheel and did a visual check, i found that one of the bushings on the lower arm? was worn, and that the bolt was slightly loose. thanks, Gene for the help

Hot dang, should be a lot less expensive and time consuming than the wheel bearings. In a pinch you can borrow one from the parts car in case you forgot, for that matter you could pull the control arm from the parts car and toss that in while you make repairs to the original. Again drawing from memory of the repair manual it shouldn't be that big a deal though there may be an eccentric adjustment which would need some attention.

Have a couple of jacks and pry levers available for unloading the control arm. Don't snug up the silent block bolt(s) until the wheel is on and on the ground. This prevents the rubber center from winding up and shortening it's life with a permanent twist.

Yikes, just remember the picture showed what looks to b a 2"-3" diameter silent block. Chain link fence posts sections for removal/installation?? ... that or the hacksaw. Sometimes a propane torch can loosen things once the piece is off the car, apply some oil on the outside, as long as it's smoking you are under 500 degrees and won't damage the metal's properties. That's the trick I used when changing flywheel ring gears before I dropped them on.

I've seen these thru bolts get damaged from being beat up so do take a look at that. I recently pulled apart a '57 Spitfire front end for my Autocycle that took a couple days just to get 1 bolt out so I didn't destroy anything except the bolt.

Anyway, at least you know what it is and can sleep well. BTW did you end up putting the jack under the bearing carrier to isolate the noise?

Cheers,
Gene The Machine.

[4g63tc]

Originally posted by GTM


did you end up putting the jack under the bearing carrier to isolate the noise?

Cheers,
Gene The Machine.

i sure did gene, but the problem was quite evident once i got around to looking at the problem.(hmmm? how did you know i was gonna pull the arm off of my donor car?)

it's all back together, and running great, no noise at all. i did take the car and get an alignment this weekend i needed one bad!.


Thanks again gene for the help

[GTM]

Originally posted by 4g63tc
i sure did gene, but the problem was quite evident once i got around to looking at the problem.(hmmm? how did you know i was gonna pull the arm off of my donor car?) ...it's all back together, and running great, no noise at all. i did take the car and get an alignment this weekend i needed one bad!. Thanks again gene for the help

Depending on the wheel and design it can be tricky getting a jack on the bearing carrier. If it's a straight shot go for it, otherwise the path of the least resistance for initial diagnosis works.

Ummmm, that why they call 'em parts cars. Assign a value of $100 which you can now off-set the cost of the parts and down time while you waited for the dealer to order the part...

As for the alignment, good deal, glad it's putting a smile on your face again. However to rub it in Barabam use to set their Formula cars up on a dirt
floor and the string method which I've used on many occasions. Yes it takes a bit of math to make the calcs but you know who to blame when things don't behave the way you want. Sometimes it just takes a little proding to give confidence that a task isn't all that difficult once you have the info.

Cheers,
GTM

[4g63tc]

well i think i need another alignment the weather lately has been causing me to do some rock dodging on the crest. (i'm not always successful!)

i did see some snow on monday morning up there.